I'll have to try that setup some other time if I can. Still, I think pretty highly of Forza 2 for its physics. At first (using the Pontiac Solstice) I wondered if they had the coefficients of grip figured out, but other cars were much less prone to sudden oversteer, and the Solstice just forced me to be smoother and it didn't seem so unbelievable.

A lot of the driving I do in Forza is just to set lap times with my various cars on certain tracks I know. I keep making progress through the actual game, but I really enjoy seeing how many seconds, then tenths of seconds, I can shave with different lines and setups. I play more Forza 2 than GTL (much due to the fact that I play GTL with arrow keys and think joysticks feel unnatural to drive with . . . yet to get a wheel or game controller.)

But back to GT5; the Virtua GT machine seemed to accurately recreate the steering ratio as one turn at Fuji took a full rotation of the IS-F's virtual GT5 steering wheel to turn.

Depending on the age of the setups, the Virual GT cockpits came with Logitch Momo wheels and pedals (as far back s 2004 I believe), but I do believe they will/are available with the new Logitech G25 wheel/H-gate shifter and clutch pedal setup.

I rated the G25 at a 10, then the Momo (and tht series Logitech wheels) are a 6 - thats how much better the new setup is.

The major gripe I have with Forza is to do with tyre grip - (which is directly related to throttle control/input) the way you can spin yourself into an oversteer donut in a straightine with a sports car equipped with super sticky tyres is a little bit much IMO - and the replays - taht is where Turn 10 really got lazy.

And sadly, they never did release any code updates for Forza2 to improve the engine or ad features (except to stop online cheating) and never did fix the pathetic replay cameras - that is a poor showing - as the claim was always "XBOx360 - game patches and download content".

Turn 10 could have done so much better had they not rushed to market.

I dont mind the "excessive" tyre squeal... as it shows you are over the "edge" ;)

The Evo and STI are some of the "squeeliest" cars around since they use so much sidewall to corner.

I thought I'd use the squeel as an indicator but it screamed when it had more to give, it screamed about the same at the limit, it kept screaming the same just past the limit, then screamed like mad once plowing understeer had begun. I was really disappointed. I'm hoping that's more a demonstration of the IS-F's handling abilities than it is GT5's physics engine.:-)


and another Forza note - while I'm mostly impressed with the physics, my fully modded Z06 (just for kicks - the Z06 didn't really need the power, but I was curious how much it'd make) is very hard to get around any of the courses, even New York, despite it's various race tires.

I know some of those standing mile Z06's and Vipers get squirly at full throttle and high speed (like, 200 mph), so I'm still trying to gauge how accurate (or innaccurate) it is. I guess you're the guy with the 600+ hp vette to ask. :-D

Well, there is a decided difference between 1200rwhp and 600rwhp, but in many of the magazine tests etc they dont use race tyres, but Michelin PS2 street tyres to level the playing field.

When I modded the ingame C5 Z06 with the same components my car had and got close to my cars power, it was far more squirrelly in the game with full spec race tyres than I have experienced on the street and on the track.

The only time my car behaved like the game cars do at full throttle was when I had street tyres on - and thats why I always thought they either were not modelling the tyre grip accurately or the throttle modulation was never as fine as in real life.

For an idea, with street tyres I can sit at 5000rpm in 4rd on the freeway and punch the gas, get the hweels to spin up and then on the 3-4 shift the back end will break loose - same with the 4th to 5th shift ---- on street tyres.

With treaded race tyres (not even slicks) I can do full throttle 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gear shifts coming onto the straight and the tyres barely chatter... now of course if you oversteer you will end up slipping the tyres because of the combined forces on them, but generally speaking with smooth throttle applciations they dont just spin up like Forza (and many other games) - but I wonder how much is poor tyre physics and how much is our over use of the ingame throttle compared to how one would use the throttle in real life.

:)

I am fairly satisfied with GT5P when the cars have race tyres fitted - and with the spot tyres, I just use the tyre squeal as an indicator I am in too hot - I think they exagertae the tyre squeal to give you abetter sense of extreme cornering, since not everyone will have force feedback steering wheels, and of course we have no G's acting on our bodie to give the true sensaiton of approaching, then going over the grip edge of the tyre :)

I just enjoy the challange of driving the F40 around with stick and clutch and fighting with it around the hairpins of Fuji hehe

Hate Fuji. Especially the Dunlop Corner. Full lock. :-(

full lock? I had to make a little more than one rotation of the wheel, but that was it.

Understeer LOL.

Does GT5P have an actual clutch function like GTR does? If it does, that's pretty awesome.

It has had it since GT:HD ;)

Why do you think I am so hard on Froza2 - in this day and age Forza2 has too many shortcomings to be taken seriously ;)

i sold my xbox360 to get a ps3 and GT5!

Well I bought the game today at my lunch time in work.

So here it is another small review from a car freak car game lover.

First of all, I have both systems 360 and PS3 I have PGR3 PGR4 Forza 2 and GT4, I already finished all of them, so I compared.

Graphics: What can I say, GT has always been a step forward in this part and it did it again, believe me, I can be all weekend playing the game just to watch the replays and the intro before a race starts when the cars are at the pits, it is just superb, in another level, makes forza 2 cars look cartooney unreal, way way better than those in PGR 3 and 4.

Sound: Well in my (personal) view, they are still like 50% to 60% from perfection, it just broke my heart when I heard again those horrible unrealistic tire sounds, and those vacuum cleaner engine sounds, forza 2 and PGR are a step forward in these department, I dont know why but PD should pay more attention at this sound details. BTW the soundtrack and the menu music in GT5P isssssssss awsoooomeeeeee never heard anything like that on a racing game, it kept me relaxed and in a good mood =).

A.I.: Sorry to dissapoint you but it SUCKS, its not a surprise to see a car off the road in every race or out of control, they still ram you, believe me, I think they improved like a 5% in this area, and thats nothing, Forza 2 wins again in the A.I. area.

Gameplay: Well I played with a controller so, I have nothing to say, this thing needs to be played with a proper steering wheel to really experience the driving, but it improved, really, its way different I think it is more real than the one in Forza 2. Menu screen, options, car configuration its excellent and very user friendly, nothing complicated.

Online: Its ok, it lacks some things, but we all know its the first time a GT game has online gameplay, so its good for a start.

Overall: Well its improving a lot, no doubt about it, for 40 bucks its ok, and is just a good preveiw of what to expect from GT5 (considering is a year ahead). If PD could just have realistic engine and tire sounds, some weather effects like PGR 4, and the car brands that are missing like Lambo and Porsche, believe me, it will be out of this world, will make me quit my job, and play the fuckin thing all day long.

If only that were possible. GT5's graphics + Forza's customization + PGR's list of cars + GTR's realism + TOCA/Colin McRae's fan service = perfect racing game ever.

Guys i think you all missed the point of GT5... ITS A WORK in progress.. meaning not all the cars.. not all teh sounds are there... so this is a demo of what GT5 will be LIKe rather then what GT5 is!.

dont judge the game before its complete.. Believe me.. it's 10 times better then Forza.

10x's too much. It's not that good. Don't judge the game before it's complete. Besides, GT4: P was a good indication of what GT4 was going to be like, and I expect GT5: P to do the same.

Anyways, thanks to PS3's internet capability, Polyphony will be able to upgrade the game till the point where it's pretty much like what they want GT5 to be. Although they can always do things that'll make it worse, ie damage modelling. If they're not going to do it right, they shouldn't do it. But we'll see.

It's weird. Both GT5 and Forza 2 lack the ability to set up races just how you want them (GTR is nice where you can pick the cars out individually even.) I know they want to stress multiplayer, but the single player arcade mode shouldn't be so overlooked.

Here's my brief Forza 2 vs GT5P conclusions

driving: Forza > GT

graphics: Forza < GT

sound Forza > GT

soundtrack Forza < GT

cars available (I'm making a guess about the full version of GT5) Forza < GT

customization: Forza > GT




One last Forza 2 gripe. Why do they not have test tracks like GT4 did? I spent soooo many hours just doing top speed and quarter mile runs with various cars in GT4.