New Veyron Test
 

I said to myself no more veyron-related posts, after the last one (that was blown out of proportion by some new user's comments ;) but nevertheless here it is :)

http://www.autoclips.net/video/play/5340

Wow, 10.2s @142mph - that is the fastest time/speed I have heard recorded to date!

Does anyone know what the fastest (credible) street bike (with street tires) can do??

The car has 1000hp, if it couldnt run at least 10.2s @ 142mph then would be an even bigger bucket of shit.

10.2s @ 142mph for 1 million dollars and 1000hp and computer controller 4wd is pretty lame.

There are literally hundred of street tyred daily drivers with aroun 600hp that run those trap speeds and E/T's - and thousands and thousands of stock ZX12's, ZX14's and Busas.

Give it up already - the Veyron is nothing more than an excercise in excess that few will ever see in person let alone drive and even fewer will own.

In the mean time, regular folks can have 10s 1/4s on their $10,000 street bikes and 600hp modified V8's :P

**yawn**

So, you're saying that there are only 2 street bike that it is possible to get a better trap time with?

Tell me, would you be willing to bet on the average Busa owner beating the average Veyron (yeah, I know what your thinking) owner to a 1/4 mi race?

Remember, all the rich fat guy has to do is engage launch control and press the loud pedal. He doesn't even have to steer, ride out a clutch, or anything. The Busa rider, has somewhat more to do to run low 10s. Heaven forbid they have to run the best of 5. This is the result of technology/engineering.

No - I am showing you taht even as far back as 1999 and 2000 open class bieks were running 10s 1/4s at 145mph+.

Yes - the average Veyron owner wont have done much driving themsleves anyway - the rest may line up with a bike and from a standstill it will a drivers race each time.

**yawn**

To run low tens you point and squirt.. the same as the Veyron driver.

And again - for 1 million dollars, super computer aids, 4wd and 1000hp if it couldn't run 10.2s it would be even more of a bucket of shit than it is.

Well then the 10s cars in your town are not the same as the 10s cars in my toen.. :P

Those cars are not brutal drag slick tyre mosters with no use anywhere else ;)

can you put the air con on with your friend on the back of the bike and smoke a cigaret at the same time whilst doing 180 mph+


i thought not!

This car is one fast beast... :twisted:

I wonder how much these riders weigh? And what do think will happen after the 1/4 mi? Lastly, I find it hard to believe that if the best a professional rider can do is 9.86s, I find it very hard to believe that the average 180 lb Busa rider will be able to knock of 10.2s all day long...

The veyron is just a slow piece of crap for me.
:D 8) 8)

Ever single other 600hp car out there can achieve the same thing.. so whats your point?

Again - what is this obsession that noone who ows a "cheap" fast vehicle knows how to use them?

As an example - many accomplished Z06, GT3, F360, SL55, CLS500 and M3 drivers can make their cars consistantly beat the "factory" claimed figurs on road courses and drag strips.

The same is true for many, many, many motorcycle enthusiasts.

I am not sure where you are from, but whether in the UK or the US or even South Afrcia, there are enthusiasts that propel their vehicles to fanatastic times even as weekend warriors at race tracks all over.

To assume otherwise is rather foolish.

Note I didnt say all, or even most - but some are VERY competant.. and yes, the majority are just magazine reading posers.. but those are not the drivers/riders being discussed.

I'll spank a Veyron on my bike every single race until about 150 when aerodynamics start to really come into play. :D :D :D :D :wink:

Well, I guess if your statement is indeed accurate, it will still have its way with you for its next 100mph, until its rev limiter kicks in.

Like I said before, even if you are capable of pulling sub 10s (on demand) on your nifty bike, its only a matter of when, not if, the Veyron will blow your spokes off. Since its doing 140mph+ at the 1/4, you would be pretty depressed by the end of the standing km (I know this isn't a 'metric' often used by Americans).

I have never understood why people are so negative about the Veyron. It's not like VW Group made it out to be anything other than what it is: The most capable GT car of this era. I don't think any semi-intelligent individual would claim that it was intended to compete with an Elise, or even a Mac F1, for that matter. It just happens to accelerate faster and have a higher top speed than any other engineered production car to date. For the record, I believe it also accomplishes the highest recorded deceleration rate of >1.6g, above 375 km/h (just in case you were interested).

^^^^

The Veyron in terms of all its abilities versus it's competitors is much much much greater then the McLaren F1 ever claimed it was. The McLaren was never a good handler, nor did it have good brakes, or steering feeling. The Veyron after much testing is good at all of these, and even has substantial G load limits that the F1 would've swapped sides with... even in professional racing drivers' hands like Darek Bell LOL.

Sure, the Veyron did the same thing under testing conditions, but its current serial mark is a new generation already vs. what was delivered this past summer... They are continualy making improvements to the car; where this just didnt' happen over at Macca's shop...

It is nifty, thanks. :wink:

...and regarding all of the statements about the Veyron not being able to handle as well as other supercars, please see the quote from evo No. 096, supercar comparison (Veyron vs. Enzo, CGT and Zonda S):

From Pg. 102:

"I probably like the Veyron more than either of them (the other cars in this test), not because it's the fastest production car ever but because I still can't believe, first, that it works and, second, that it works so astonishingly well. Against all expectation it's not simply a car for going absurdly fast in a straight line; it really does seem to defy physics in the corners, feeling much lighter than it actually is, changing direction with alarcity and precision and getting its power down more effectively than cars with several hundred horsepower less."

what was with that monotone narration? :?

put some effort into it...

I guess the Max Power title is appropriate then...

Who the hell is talking about some trumped up Chevelle or Duster other pice of crap?

I am talking about 10s street sports cars.. not 35 year old souped up dragsters.

When will people learn that you cannot compare someones souped up Chevelle to a slightly tweaked Z06 or a Viper or even a Ruf or even *gasp* a properly tuned Supra...

The above mentioned cars can go trun and stop like no 60's/70's car could.

No where there does it say it is BETTER than the rest - it simply says IT is better than expected - and that statement about "getting power down better than less powerful cars" is proof positive that people don't get how PS2 the car is.

If it has 1000hp and only goes as quick as a 600hp car, then it stands to reason that the computers are shutting down the power to 600hp levels to maintain grip.. so in effect the 1000hp is just an advertising gimmick and is only ever need if you want to go above 215mph perhaps,... a speed perhaps 2 Beyron owners will ever see ;)

So what we have is a 1000hp car that can only use 600hp since it is no quicker than any other vehicle with the same power... :P

And again...

For 1 million dollars

1000hp

4wd

more electronic aids than a wore out porn star

It would be an even bigger pile of crap if could not do 10.2s @ 140+mph

I kown lots of cars that will beat veyron including the norris evo 9 swb rocket ronnie's r33 gtr the rc developments evo 6 jenspeed wrc escort the reyland escort cosworth.

Conclusion the veyron is just a slow piece of crap.
:D 8) 8)

We'll see how the fanboys react when the first videos of street-killed Veyrons come in. ;)

True about the no contest but I don't think its the best car :P

From the definitive evo comparison, when they are comparing the Veyron against the CGT, Harry's modified Zonda S and the Enzo on backroads. Issue 096, Pg. 99

"The Bugatti copes well with the lumps and bumps of these minor roads, too, feeling relaxed and controlled, the ESP traction control activating only once when I request full power over some bumps." - i.e. your assumption is incorrect.

I think it was you who had stated in the past that the Veyron wouldn't handle. I am simply providing evidence, from what most true enthusiasts would consider a credible source. Here's some more comments to counter your argument from the same article:

evo 096, Pg. 100, when comparing it to the Enzo:

"In some respects the Enzo is like the Carrera - super-sharp front end, high roll stiffness and appreciable structural integrity - but its punchier engine should make it more effective here. However, half a mile in, it's clear that the Ferrari and I have got our work cut out, and not just because the Veyron is shockingly fast when the road uncoils. It's also incredibly quick into the turns and fires out of them like it's on slicks."

In case you haven't received the message here, the Veyron ate an Enzo, CGT and modified Zonda S for lunch in the twisties (read: no long straights)

from car's Veyron review by Georg Kacher, issue 529, Pg. 46:

"Ordinary supercars excel in the 125 to 185 mph speed range. Special supercars like the Bugatti demotivate the rest of the four-wheeled world between 185 and 250 mph. Silly velocity? impossible in today's traffic? Wrong, and wrong again. You're forgetting the Veyron's phenomenal stoping ability. With a combined deceleration force of 2.0g - that's 1.4g pulled by the car plus 0.6g added by the air brake - you can squash kinetic energy at a mind blowing rate."

"No, I didn't venture into the final 20mph (i.e. 230-250mph) zone on public roads. But I can report that 230mph in this supercoup on steroids feels about as wild and daring as 150mph does in a regular sports car."

If big 'ol fat Georg Kacher was doing 230mph in a Veyron, so would a decent bunch of those Veyron owners who will actually drive their car.

Care to go further? This is merely the 'tip of the iceberg' in terms of supporting evidence. I am attempting to be objective. Are you?

sorry, but if you simply turn the top speed key, you voide the warenty of the Veyron.

I love the car, and have a very good idea of its capabliities.... but like 99% of the supercars out there, it does have its problems

The "back roads" they are talking about are not true "back roads" but rather smooth ribbons of select asphalt for spirited drives more like select 2 lane autobahns than true bumpy B-Roads.

Witness what happens when you go try g0 180mph on actual B-Roads.. present one smashed Enzo.. and the only reason there were not a Ruf, CGT and SLR etc etc all piled up on the Enzo is because thats the onyl car that went through the bumpy B-road at 180mph.

**yawn**

When I see an Enzo or CGT runnign around proper back roads at speed, let alone a Veyron then I will even bother paying attention.

Yes, why is it that GM has been going to all that expense and trouble of testing at that mickey mouse track called Nuernburg something or other, when all of the best chassis development roads exist right in their own backyard?

I guess I misunderstood back roads as meaning off-highway. Clearly, the definition must be dirt/gravel paths, where they use the speed limit signs as target practice for their shot guns...

I never once mentined anything about leaf springs in my comment.

You people keep coming back to the same shit argument - not I.

The point is that on anything except smooth ribbons of pavement 180mph speeds are semi-controlled chaos.

The Nurburgrng is not laped at 180mph, but rather at the very speeds the quoted article speaks of - 125mph to 170mph.. the simple reality is that 180mph+ speeds on anythign except relatively smooth and nonundulating semi-winding roads is a deadly combination - for any god-damned car.

Again - witness the smashed Enzo.

I have to ask both of you, have you EVER tried to blast rhough B-Road countryside at 160mph or faster?

Have you ever been on non-race track surfaces at very high speed to see how quickly things can get undone?

This is the reality - and even the Nurburgring bears witness to this - note the very untidy accidents that happen when the speed of the section of road is exceeded.

Now there is no way in hell that the Veyron would be able to be better than the lighter CGT/Enzo et al through certain sections at an even higher speed... and until such time as I see an Enzo or CGT succesfully go through sections of B-Road at 180mph that otherwise cannot be passed at even 150mph, then I wont even bother with paying attention to all this fan-boy crap about the Veyron.

Even if in the end a Veyron lapped the Nurburgring faster than a CGT I stil wouldnt care, because unlike a Radical that has a lower top speed than the CGT but higher cornering speed and there for deserves attention and respect, the Veyron would have to rely on 245mph straight speeds to cut off the 15 seconds lost as it wallowed like an over wieght pig throuhg the bends at a lower speed than the CGT.

*yawn*

Again: has anyone here actually driven a Veyron? Everyone that I've talked to that has driven one has said one thing: it grips and corners like nothing else they can compare it to.

For the benefit of those who have not yet visited the revlovers.com site, here are some comments from Dennis, one of their administrators, in how the Veyron (they actually had two of them there) compared against other cars at their initial Hockenheim meet (F1, F1 GTR, Enzo, CGT, GT1 road car, CLK GTR, etc.):

"RE: Bugatti Review

Having compared both cars on the track... I know that the Bugatti is definitly quicker than the normal road McLaren F1 on track. Even the F1 GTR on road tyres is slower... Only when fitting the GTR with Slicks it is considerably faster, but that is a unfair comparison..."

Here is their review of the Veyron:

"Driving above 400 kph in a road legal car is an experience you will not forget. It becomes impossible to notice anything right or left of the road, since one covers a mind blowing 111 meters per second at that speed. Forget reading sign posts, the road needs your full attention. Even to find out how fast you are actually going is a serious challenge, since during the time your eyes move their focus from the road to the speedometer, from the speedometer to the GPS system back to the road you probably have travelled more than 300 meters. This is ten times the distance the car actually needs to stop from 100 kph.

Surprisingly the perception of speed changes the faster you go. While it is relatively easy to distinguish between travelling at 200 kph or 250 kph, it really becomes hard to tell whether you go 350 kph or 400 kph. It is like moving into another world where everything you have learned to know becomes relative. The experience can be compared more to sitting in an airplane than to driving a car. Or can you tell if you are doing 700 kph or 900 kph when sitting in a commercial jet? In both cases you notice that you are travelling extremely fast but a precise judgment of how fast you are actually going without any indication of speed becomes almost impossible.

Although the car feels extremely stable at high speeds, reliably following its course straight ahead, you start wondering who is in control of the situation. Even though the car follows your inputs, you start feeling that the car actually has taken over the majority of control, which is an unfavourable situation to be in. At high speeds your health and safety almost entirely depend on the reliability of the car and its technical components i.e. tyres, to withstand the sheer forces they are exposed to. If anything were to go wrong you would not wish to have Michael Schumacher’s car control, but you would wish to live in an era where ‘beaming’ could actually save you from a very unfortunate scenario. No matter how good a driver you are, at those speeds the likelihood of surviving a major technical fault untouched is like winning the Lotto Jackpot.

The technical issue is not the only factor determining whether or not you will survive the adventure. The sheer velocity requires you to see as far ahead as possible, since it will be almost impossible to avoid any unforeseen obstacles on the road when spotting them too late in the near distance. Abruptly changing the lane à la ‘Elk Test’ is not an option, and the attempt to brake pointless. The fact that you are driving on a private test track comforts you, however acres of woods left and right to the road make you hope that hunters have done their job well. The steering requires relatively strong but sensitive inputs in order to guide the car from one lane to another. Trying not to unsettle the car, any inputs to the steering are as smooth as possible. The car follows willingly small direction changes. Intimidated by the three lane road which seems to become very narrow the faster you go, you do not exactly want to test the car’s handling abilities at this stage. A huge respect towards speed builds up inside of you, forcing you to concentrate really hard on the task ahead. You try to feel into the car to notice any suspicious vibrations or noises, but the sensitivity of your organs cannot keep up with the numerous built-in sensors electronically monitoring all the different aspects of the car. For example, a small discrepancy between the individual tyre pressures will end the ‘high speed mode’, increasing the car’s ride height and raising the rear spoiler to ‘handling position’. A warning light will flash up signalling that it might be a good idea to make use of the phenomenal brakes in order to abort the mission.

The brakes themselves are a great achievement since the car carries a considerable mass difficult to stop once in motion. But the force with which they decelerate even from 400 kph is almost more impressive than the acceleration to that speed. A slight touch on the brake paddle activates the airbrake, which left alone decelerates the car at 0.6 m/s (he meant g - edit) at above 375 kph. Intensify the pressure slightly with your foot and the car seriously starts decelerating like other supercars would from 200 kph and normal road cars would never achieve from 100 km/h. Elder people using a denture should be aware to keep their mouth closed under braking in order to avoid any embarrassing moments. Even at those speeds hard brake manoeuvres are totally stable and seem to be effortless. Bugatti claims that the car will stop from 400 km/h in just 10 seconds. This is totally believable after having felt the sheer force with which the car decelerates. Nevertheless the car will have travelled just over half a kilometre before it reaches stand still. Considering this distance, the car would actually be able to accelerate from nought to 100 kph back to nought more than five times within the same distance.

However the most surprising aspect of the car is that you do not need to be a driving virtuoso in order to control the car on an every day basis. The line between brutal madness and civilised behaviour is dictated by the angle of the accelerator. If you only use the first quarter of what has to be the most powerful paddle in the world, the car feels like a very well balanced sports car, easy to drive, totally suitable for every day use. There is sufficient comfort and even low enough noise levels to carry around infants in their sleep. When driving around town, it is hard to believe that this same machine was able to intimidate and challenge you.

The car’s dual identity of tremendous power and speed versus its civilised and calm character might be dangerous to inexperienced drivers, because the car is not intimidating initially which might result in overconfidence and carelessness. The general speed at which you travel might be easily underestimated. As long as inexperienced drivers do not over estimate themselves and use the hyper paddle to an extent that they would lose control.

The balancing act between the car’s usability and its unbeatable performance is astonishing and requires expressing unlimited admiration for the engineer’s achievement. The car’s build quality is outstanding, totally robust and solid. There are no rattles, no tweaks, nor any other disturbing noises neither from the suspension nor from the engine and transmission. The double clutch sequential gear box is phenomenal, the best paddle operated gear box I have tested so far and probably the best transmission out there. There is no lag in between the shifts. Shifts are only noticed by changes in engine sound.

Accelerating through the gears feels like sitting in an F-16 being launched from an aircraft carrier. There is a constant violent push forward, forcing your passenger’s head deep into the upholstery of his seat when accelerating unexpectedly. Some are so surprised by the sheer violence that you might think to notice a small colour change in their face and a definite change in their facial expression. Transforming from a casually enjoying look to an almost uncomfortable but definitely thrilled face, your passenger seems to struggle grasping what is happening to him.

The handling of the car is the second most surprising aspect of this machine. The car’s "over weight" has been an issue widely discussed, however astonishingly the car feels agile happy to turn in and is definitely a blast on country roads. It always stays stable and very neutral through long sweeping turns. Even when turns tighten up, the car seems to carry at least 500 kilos less than it actually does. On country roads one begins to learn that the car offers extremely high grip levels which one is unable to be fully exploit on public roads due to legal and safety issues.

Having tested the car intensively on the Hockenheim Ring, my admiration for the car grew even more. It is tremendously quick, absolutely stable under all conditions. There is no sign of nervousness, on the contrary the car gives you so much confidence that it is relatively easy to quickly find its limits. Its traction out of tighter turns is mind-blowing. Switch off ESP and discover its absolute neutral behaviour sliding over all four wheels when accelerating out of turns. However, when using the brakes for a few laps on the limit one starts noticing the incredible speed with which you approach turns and the sheer mass which is carried around. In comparison to other supercars, the brake needs to compensate for the huge speed advantage and for the big weight disadvantage, which one starts feeling after a few flying laps. The reason for this small let down is that brake cooling has not been optimised for track use in order to achieve the aerodynamic efficiency needed to reach its proven top speed.

However, this car has not been designed to be the ultimate track car, but it has been designed to beat everything on the road. In our opinion this mission was accomplished by miles. The Bugatti Veyron is a car of superlatives. There is no other car in the world which comes even close to matching its abilities. It is a masterpiece of engineering, a human triumph over the laws of physics.

Text: Dennis

The context of the above write up is an F1 spec race track.

And note the little disclaimer about the brakes slipped in at the end.

Oh - and please note how Dennis in fact concurs with me about the nature of super high speed travel - you need distance and clear range to avoid distaster.

So - take this all and place it in the context of undulating and bumpy and twisty B-Roads (as for example the Nurburgring) and the only place the Vagrant would shine, is the sweepers and straights.

So perhaps the above write-up in fact proves my assertion that on certain types of roads being able to speed above q80mph is moot - and that at the lower speeds and technical requirements the CGT and Enzo would be more than a match for the Vagrant... much like say a Miata could school a GT3 on certain types of roads.. ;)

*yawn*

Rather than be a car of superlatives, perhaps the Veyron is simply a car of excess.

Some like excess, others don't :)

Again with the leaf spring BS.

I never once mentioned "that car' - but try as you might you keep steering away from the obvious... the Vagrant for all the R&D better do the simple things like go fast in a straight line and stop in astraight line...

...but again, on roads where 180mph is a moot point and 150mph is difficult to maintain control on are where the overweight sloppy pig will lose out to the svelt and far more capable CGT and Enzo...

Witness once again the fact that when the Enzo tried to go 180 on roads that could only sustain a barely controlled 150 it crashed and burned...

So in that arena the vagarant would be outclassed by its own excesses.

And again, the posted article supports this 100%.

BTW - what does gravel and no guardrails have to do with anything?

And somehow I doubt you have that much 160mph B-Road milage. maybe a lot of 120 to 130mph but running 160mph on less than perfect back roads is not something easily done without lotsa horsepower and lotsa grip ;)

But maybe you have spent every weekend with an Audi Quattro SWB Gruppe B Rally car - who knows :P

In this latest series of exchanges I never once mentioned anything modded or american or even implied "that other caR" was part of the discussion...

I used Emzo and CGT as clear examples... and provided proof that 180mph and certain roads don't mix.. no matter what the chariot...

I am sure you had what ever car it was fully opposite lock 160 around b-road bends and simply ate up the bumps ripples and undulations all the way.

How is it, that any of the mag quotes which I have provided so far, indicate anything other than the Veyron digested the CGT ( which I am generally a big fan of), Enzo and a moded Zonda S, all driven by the gang at evo?

These guys actually stated that this was far from what they (and so many others it seems) expected of the Veyron. They expected the straight line stuff, as it's hard to ignore the stats, but what none of them expected was what happened in and out of the curves. Obviously, reading is a bit of a challenge for some of us here so I'll provide the same quote from evo, that I have already posted above:


evo No. 096, Pg. 102:

"I probably like the Veyron more than either of them (the other cars in this test), not because it's the fastest production car ever but because I still can't believe, first, that it works and, second, that it works so astonishingly well. Against all expectation it's not simply a car for going absurdly fast in a straight line; it really does seem to defy physics in the corners, feeling much lighter than it actually is, changing direction with alarcity and precision and getting its power down more effectively (this means better...) than cars with several hundred horsepower less (i.e. than the CGT, Enzo and Zonda S)."

evo No. 096, Pg. 100, when comparing it to the Enzo:

"In some respects the Enzo is like the Carrera - super-sharp front end, high roll stiffness and appreciable structural integrity - but its punchier engine should make it more effective here. However, half a mile in, it's clear that the Ferrari and I have got our work cut out, and not just because the Veyron is shockingly fast when the road uncoils. It's also incredibly quick into the turns and fires out of them like it's on slicks."

Now, where exactly did you deduce that the Veyron didn't walk away from the other cars in this comparison?

Lastly, the Georg Kacher (from car magazine) quote was provided to counter the claim that Veyron owners will never drive their cars above 200 mph:

from car's Veyron review by Georg Kacher, issue 529, Pg. 46:

"Ordinary supercars excel in the 125 to 185 mph speed range. Special supercars like the Bugatti demotivate the rest of the four-wheeled world between 185 and 250 mph. Silly velocity? impossible in today's traffic? Wrong, and wrong again. You're forgetting the Veyron's phenomenal stopping ability. With a combined deceleration force of 2.0g - that's 1.4g pulled by the car plus 0.6g added by the air brake - you can squash kinetic energy at a mind blowing rate."

"No, I didn't venture into the final 20mph (i.e. 230-250mph) zone on public roads. But I can report that 230mph in this supercoup on steroids feels about as wild and daring as 150mph does in a regular sports car."

To clarify, Georg is not claiming that he drove at these speeds around a 'b-road' hairpin. I would assume he is referring to driving at these speeds on the autobahn, as I think he resides in Germany. For more evidence of Veyron owners actually using their cars, please check out the revlovers.com site, where they have several videos of a Veyron dicing it up at Hockenheim with CGTs, Ford GTs, Mac F1s and GTRs, an Enzo, a CLK GTR, etc. BTW, Hockenheim is not known to be a smooth track (last time I checked).

Are there any other misconceptions about the info. provided, that I can help with?

**yawn**

The point is that outside of the F1 flat tracks the car is a **yawn** an over weight boat.

There are many roads whose speeds will need to be exceeded for the Vagrant to "obliterate" the CGT - and on such roads 180mph is not an option..

Witness the Enzo that was smashed to bits trying to go 180mph on a 150mph road.

The Bugnasty Vagrant would also be smashed to bits if it tried to go 180mph on a 150mph road... thats just reality.

That supposedly handles almost Lotus like... Not too bad for something that weighs over two tons :shrug:

supposedly... again - how come we don't see any trackside and incar video of these "tests" where the Veyron laps Enzos and CGT's?

You would think, with the million dollar being so good and so perfect, that hiring a few cmaeras to record these momentour events would be simple as... right??

**yawn**

It's a million dollar ar with hundreds of millions in R&D and 1000hp and more computers than NASA - why is everyone prasing it so much?

It would be disastrous if it couldn't do what it does..

You really are obsessed with the Vette I see.

Surely the CGT is better measure, afterall it's also a German car like the Veyron :)

well....

I have on pure authority that the Veyron will not out handle a Ford GT, let alone a Z06, a CGT, Enzo, a Porsche 911, a Aston V8 Vantage, a Noble, etc. etc.

it does well through the corners considering it's weight. there is nothing objective about such statements. the analogy of the day seems to be "money talks" or lap times in this case.

What authority exactly? I have provided quotes from two prominent British mags. Evo, which is pretty much considered the 'authoritative' magazine for enthusiasts, compared the Veyron against 3 of its best handling/accelerating/decelerating supercar competitors. It beat them all, in fact the owner of the Enzo AND CGT said that they were going to order a Veyron each for themselves...

I have also provided info. from the revlovers.com trackday at Hockenheim, where it ran on the track against the fastest cars ever made. The only one they said was faster, was the race spec'd Mac F1 GTR and ONLY when it was running on race slicks!

Where exactly is your proof??

this comes directly from contacts I have at Bugatti, long talks with the test drivers, and time in the car thankyou. The terms I mention are purely objective, and not a slippery slope of "it does better then you would think it does" type crap that ALL the magazines are spewing. What a load of crap, eh?

so again, where are the lap times?

I love the Veyron, but I have no illusions regarding it.

and where are the in-car and track side videos of the Veyron passing the out of control Enzo's and CGT's around the outside ? ;)

I think nthfinity summed it up well by saying "considering its weight". Those who did drive it, said it did incredibly well, even quoted "lotus like". I know one friend personally who tried the Veyron, and he said it was a beast, even in the wet (he drives a considerable number of interesting cars, so it sounds legible).

But 99% of all owners will never take it to a track, so the only way to know for sure is to wait for "someone" to finally get their hands on the car in order to give it the going to that's needed.

Veyron is Gay, PERIOD.

1. It was a concept for like 100 years first of all, I mean do you see Ferrari with an Enzo at all the Car shows for years and years while its still being made and changed and fixed etc etc? No it comes out into production and thats it.

2. It doesnt really work, if it did im sure it would come with an engine cover.

3. 8 litres, 16 cylinders, quad turbo? Are u nuts, Enzo (and other supercars) are making way way better power per cc. Enzo is making 660, add another 4 cylinders, 1.4 litres and a few turbos to that thing.

4. The weight, ridiculous, why are they making a luxary cruiser, but with supercar looks and outrageous power. The car doesnt even know what it is its messed up.

All it is is a way of idiots that dont know anything about cars and racing to say hey look I got a Bugatti, 1000 hp, fastest car in the world. Which it aint even,or wont be soon.

Right, ok. Should we quote you as the authority from now on then? I guess I am at a great disadvantage since I rely on the public press, as do most of the rest of the world.

Tell me, why don't you ask your sources for some comparative lap times then. I'm positive that they (Bugatti I mean) did some (more like lots) benchmark testing against other supercars, right? I'm sure your 'authoritative' contacts would have ready access to this vital info. that appears to be mysteriously missing.

As I have stated repeatedly before, I have provided several quotes from credible sources. Furthermore, they were written by people that have been publicly suspicious of the Veyron's performance prior to driving it. They all became converts (regarding its objective performance) after driving it. The only common beef that some of writers have mentioned, is that the Veyron does not have a 'sole' like a CGT or Zonda. That being said, I have not claimed that it does provide this rather subjective attribute. Again, I have provided several sources of 'public domain' evidence to illustrate to any remaining doubters how crushingly capable the Veyron appears to be.

Where is your evidence/data/info/anything other than 'the Veyron is heavy/expensive/has too many cylinders/turbos/radiators/etc., therefore it can't be good', 'I know someone', 'I heard this somewhere', 'someone told me', blah, blah, blah...

'Where's the beef', as the old lady in the Wendy's commercials used to say?

Suffice it to say, this is JabbasWorld, and we are priviledged to have some actual industry insiders as members - and when core members of JW say "the source told me", then "the sourcE" told them.

You may choose to believe this or not, the fact remains insiders have relayed witnessed accounts of various events, cars and behaviours - these are truthful accounts.

Again - choose to believe it or not, no justification needed from our part.

How come the "objective testers" don't have lap times and video of the Veyron beating the CGT and Enzo? Is it possible that it is their own subjectivity getting in the way, and the car only feels faster, but it really is not faster? ;)

I can tell you from personal experience that the 4wd Ruf Yellowbird felt quicker than the RT12... but the numbers showed a different story.. ;)

Well, I actually work in the 'industry', on both the development and production implementation side. If someone was making some claims that I knew to be false, whether I felt that they were making them up, or because their source was flawed, I would provide everyone the service of 'giving' (neat term that) the relevant facts and not just hearsay. It's not like the comparative data that is mentioned on this thread (but never substantiated) is confidential or anything. Again, put out, or kindly shut up. I don't buy the 'holier than thou' BS!

BTW, since when was the Ruf Yellowbird 4WD?

So you were at the Nurburgring when the C6 Z06 ran it's 7m43s lap then?

And you were privvy to seeing the Veyron overheat its engine, tyres and brakes in one lap then?

Exactly what are you "inside" to then?

So know you suspect your own information is "made up" and needs to be refuted?

You just choose to quote super-subjective sources is all ;)

You are the one quoted unsubstantiated subjective opinion... and we are simply saying that other people have said and demonstarted different results.

Oh - as an "insider" I would have thought you knew Ruf will buildwhat ever a customer wants.. even if that means a "matched pair" of one-off's ;)

Unless you are doubting my claims? ;) hehe

You appear to be reading into the quotes tforth. No where does any of these say the Veryon is superior or can even keep up. They say they are astonished it did so well. That isn't the same thing. Lets disect:
That says nothing about waking. It does say its faster then they expected.. But then again a pinto could be faster then you expected. That isn't a comparative statement. The only piece comparitive in the entire quote is that the ferrari has its work cut out for it. Implying the Veyron may be close in the writers opinion. Statistically the Veryon is too heavy to keep up in the tight turns. Thats a given. All one needs to do is look at the weight, it isn't argueable. Given enough straights on the track and a reasonable turning ability this car will win on many tracks. That doesnt imply its the equal of even close to the handling ability of the ferrari or Porsche.

The only piece in this entire article that says anything compartivie deals with getting the power down. That also doesnt show the whole picture of handling.



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