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Porsche Central Featured Vids
...well, here it is, a new feature of Porsche Central - the "PC feat. vid section", every now and then it´ll feature a new video, announced in "Porsche News"...
we decided to post the links in "Down&Up" - i hope everyone understands that we can´t post the vids directly in PC due to bandwidth limits... __________________________________________________ ___________ vid from 01012005: :arrow: link HvS from SA´s driving the Tech Art GT Street for the Supertest at HHR and NS... ...the GT Street is based on 996TT, unlike the GT Street S which is based on the GT2, but has no AWD. at 1.3bar max boost it delivers 620hp/850Nm is able to reach 60 in under 4 seconds and 125 in under 12secs, on the test day temps had been kinda high an therefore not the very best conditions for a turbo engine, it did it in 4 flat and 11.9... the time of 1:12,3 @ HHR was driven with the normal spec Conti Sport Contact 2, so again, the time could be even better there - approx. 1sec. mechanical grip at front is nearly perfect for narrow track like HHR, so hardly any understeering noticeable, grip at the rear is a bit weak due to the normal Conti´s, also braking performance could be better - for the test at NS Conti delivered a sport version of the Sport Contact 2, compareable to the Pilot Sport with N2 secification from Michelin, and with that tyre especially braking performance but also overall handling had been significantly better, HsV guessed that this tyre version should be approx 5 sec faster than the HHR one... time at NS: 7:43 8) ...more to follow :wink: |
Absolutely brillant video of course, the Gt Street is a mad car with RWD of course! :D And 7:43 is still a damn good time :D
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Nice video st-anger thanks for sharing that. Those are some incredible times even on inferior tires. So is the “Pilot Sport with N2” a semi racing slick type tire?
St-anger, the Tech Art runs boost at 1.3 bar and when I looked back to the PC “Model section” it indicates that the Porsche based 911 runs 1.65 bar at maximum power. It was my understanding that they way most tuners increased their power output above that of Porsche’s is by running higher boost with modifications that allow the running of higher boost pressures. In the Tech Art case how are they able to run lower boost pressures and still increase the horsepower by 200 bhp :? ? |
…nope, Michelin´s semi slick is called Pilot Sport Cup, e.g. on the ///M CSL, the PS N2 is the standard tyre for the std. Porsche models, “N2” is just the Porsche specification code, Michelin´s manufacturing this tyre for PAG only, just like the “N0” for the CGT…
well, here we have to differ between absolute and relative boost pressure, i´m talking about relative pressure – the pressure to the normal atmospheric pressure, so 1.3bar, sure there are cars like GT2 which run at 2.0+ pressure but this is absolute pressure then… a normal TT´s running at ~0.85bar, a GT2 ~ 1.0 bar – nevertheless, see pic down there, shows a ~560hp TT running at “only” 1.1bar at full speed: http://www.is-mad.com/upload/[email protected] …basically u´re right, “just” increasing the boost is an easy way to increase power – but this is not the very best way, here in Europe it´s very popular to tune TDI´s, so diesel cars, with a re-mapped ECU, increasing boost ~0.3 – 0.5 bar, more fuel and re-mapped fuel ignition times, but this is the worst thing one can do – such tuning won´t last very long without an efficient cooling system, so bigger intercooler and reworked air supply is a definite MUST DO then, most, better said nearly ALL tuner won´t mention that – unfortunately… note that any boost pressure increase is extremely stressful for the engine, the turbo itself is spinning with higher revvs – due to the higher pressure ratio between turbo inlet gate and outlet gate the turbo has to spin twice the speed than with normal boost pressure - also it´s important not to have a depression inside the air box, most cars have some mbars depression, here it´s good to replace airflow parts to bigger one´s so that more air can flow, the intercooler temp is higher – again, note that ~10°C lower intercooler temp is replacing ~50-60mbar boost pressure -, combustion temp. and pressure as well as exhaust temps are increasing to critical levels resulting in a higher strain for engine, turbo, exhaust system and especially cylinder-head gasket. … well, it´s getting complicated now I think… :roll: serious tuners like TechArt definitely install a proper cooling system but again, they´re also after keeping boost pressures low, there´re some ways to gain power with turbo engines without increasing the boost too much, like bigger ports and valve opening times and travel. well, in the end this is a EXTREMLY complex topic and I have to admit that i´m not familiar with all the details i´m afraid… Quote:
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Thanks st-anger. That makes a lot of sense. When I first read 1.3 bar I thought that was relatively high. At least I knew it was in comparison to 930’s :P .
Just curious even when set up “properly” with the modifications you mentioned (i.e. larger intercooler, cams and port & polishing ect.) will a turbo running 1.3 bar have less reliability and require more maintenance / replacement than a 996TT or GT2? I guess what I am asking is there a way to safely run higher boost pressures and not sacrifice reliability? |
Wow! Great vid, that is a beast. :D
Thanks st-anger, and thanks for all the background info on the Porsche, very interesting. 8) |
Thanks st-anger, downloading it now - should be great. :D
EDIT: just finished watching, and another big thankyou. :D I love this car, and in yellow it sure looks nice.....0-200 in 11.9s is impressive, in that time my car would only just have got past 100kmh. :( |
great video st-anger! i think the hockenheim footage was great! and a very impressive NS time indeed... tho i must admit, i dont know much about tire ratings... i would've thought it would be a lot faster then an M3
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often, to increase reliability, charged engines run on lower compression ratios. with a lower compression, there is less direct stress on the internals. also, using lower compression, i think lower torque values would occur overall... cirtainly off set by the compressed air. as st-anger was mentioning, a turbo would have to spin at much sustained higher velocities, further increasing heat in the turbo charger through friction with itself primarily. often aftermarket tuning will run larger turbos runing lower rpm's for the same mb levels at the sacrifice of lag vs. higher power ratings... albiet turbocharging technology has come a long way to reduce lag times in a variety of ways... i think vovlo had a variable compression ratio in one of thier inline 5 turbo motors... higher compression at low rpm for increased torque, and throttle responce, and lower compression once boost is built up. it is my understanding that flow charactaristics in most production intercoolers are not designed for much higher then stock ratings, particularly for prolonged use. 'heat soak' is less noticiable at lower densities, and flow rates... but the intercoolers' rate of thermal reduction is reduced by things such as internal low pressure zones, and low fluid flow areas... think of it somehwat like a vortex that gets larger with more pressure, and more heat that reduces the efficiency of the whole. all to often, aftermarket supercharging kits in particular advertise 'bolt on' when really, this is far from the best option... but this is also true of turbocharging as well. when increasing the air density, inherently heat will occur... added heat, added pressure... which then leads away from an optimum burn, and runing extra rich. this also makes sence when comparing engine re-mapping to turn up the boost with otherwise stock configurations. eventually, turning the boost up beyond injector, fuel pump, and pressure regulator capacity would cause extream lean burns, and damage the tops of cylinders and heads along with power losses... |
..you´re welcome guys :D
...a special THX to nthfinity THAT´S what i´ve been asking for and that´s all i´m expecting from PC visitors - great contribution and effort - hope that some other´s will do so in the future as well - there´ll be quite some more vids in here :wink: |
Great info nthfinity as usual :wink: . I still wasn’t clear though. Are you saying that there is no way around the lower reliability of turbo charging a car? I am not referring here to bolt on components but tuners like Ruf or RS Tuning that perform complete conversions.
It is obvious that higher boost and for that matter higher horsepower creates greater strains on the mechanical components of a car. But does lowering the temperature with larger intercoolers and other changes (i.e. stronger connecting rods, valves or whatever else they might do) that tuners make when increasing the boost offset the damaging affects of higher boost? Do Porsche engines come from the factory engineered to sustain the higher stresses that tuners place on them or do owners of tuned Porsches have to accept the fact that there is a trade off for the higher performance in the form of lower reliability? |
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i dont think it matters so much weather its just turbocharging a car, or other performance upgrades which would degrade the motor more rappidly even naturally aspirated. from reading material i have had, the highest performance motors seem to be designed to last 50,000 miles, unlike normal cars engines wich are now designed to last sometimes 200,000+ miles with proper maintanence. Quote:
unfortunately, heat isnt the only problem, as you mentioned. increaced power will induce much more stress all the way from the motor mounts/chassis, right through to the wheels, and everwhere in between. so replacing an iron connecting rod with a titanium one, forged sleves, will allow for extending the life of the part under higher strains, and make it more reliable. even further, sometimes a gain in performance is a trade off in material used to strengthen, or lighten... for example, Aluminum needs to be 4x thicker then steel to maintain the same strength. also, when mixing metals in an engine, advanced corrosion occurs at the contact points... so Titanium touching iron would corrode much faster then Iron touching Iron. Quote:
but costomers... and more often, tuners know that there is definately a trade off between product life, and increasing power. in the most extreme cases, a race car is basically designed for everything to work for one weekend. if a part is suspect to failure, then cirtainly extras are on hand... but a daily driver such as a 911 turbo is designed to last a great deal longer, and a variety of driving habbits and styles... the race car is just designed for where it is at, at any moment. cirtainly, everything in the race car is built with the utmost strength, and use of lightweight components, where there are more compforts in street cars, and lower tollerences at the cost of longetivity. one thing that really amazes me is how high the bar has risen in the last 5 years alone in high performance cars. who would have thought there would be so many cars available today with 400+hp? has materials cost finaly come down? or perhaps it has been the invention of new materials, computer modeling and simulation such as seen in finite element analysis programs? sorry for the lenghty responce... but i hope that makes some more sence. [/quote] |
…definitely, a customer can´t expect that his 650hp tuned engine will last as long as the 420hp one…
nevertheless, Porsche parts, and I think everyone who´s into automotive engineering will agree, are probably the best one´s in terms of reliability even when used at the racetrack, sure we had the PCCB issue, but well… :wink: so especially the engines and drive train parts are NOT sold at the peak of their potential, the have “quite some” potential left for some light modifications, nevertheless, PAG sent out “some” letter to “some” tuners because of the Cayenne – u know that there´re versions with 700hp and to say it, the 955 is NO sports car, so there were some major concerns on safety and reliability – I mean Porsche has to defend a reputation… …to quickly answer your question nthfinity – you´re right, production nowadays is way more efficient, new production processes are introduced – there´re own departments only dealing with such issues – and especially quality in production and materials are better, Wiedeking launched a major quality project in 02 resulting in cars like the MkII GT2 ( 483hp std. ) with slightly over 500hp tested on the rig… 8) |
Thanks for sharing nthfinity. Really insightful and interesting 8) .
I was really surprised to see that aluminum was weaker than steel. Had to look it up and your right steel can withstand 4 times the sheering forces than aluminum. I was really interested in your comment concerning some reading that suggested that extremely high performance engines are designed to last 50,000 miles :( . Could you provide some more detail on what you learned from the reading. Are they referring to McLaren F1’s BMW type engines and similar high powered supercars like the CGT or are they including in that GT2, 996 TT and GT3 RS engines? I’m not sure about the reliability of the more modern 911 engines but I know that the 3.2L engine was good for at least 200,000 before requiring a rebuild. Although it only produced 231 bhp in European specs. Quote:
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Wow it took me a really long time to write my response and after I posted it I realized that st-anger had already made some comments :oops: . That is a sure sign that life is getting a little too busy.
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i remember some time ago in PN, St-anger mentioned something about an 800 hp CGT... but i havent seen anything yet... it is crazy enough to think that Koenig placed a bi-turbo system in the high-strung F50 motor for an additional 350hp... i would be thinking that the 5.7 liter v10 may be able to do that more reliably naturally aspirated...? modify the heads and cams... shorter connecting rods... and without any added torque (mabey less) it could freely rev to 10,000rpms mabey?... to me, this might be a good option when comparing to the added stress in the drivedrain compared to the high torque values when turbocharging. Quote:
also, the stress over time causes micro fractures that build up, and eventually lead to a single part failing one time... then another part failing another time... so usually, its not just one part that will cause an early demise to an engine... it may be ball berring in a turbo one time, a tie rod another and so on... i think often, before massive mechanical failure, smaller failures would cause power losses. Quote:
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wow i cant wait to see this! sounds amazing :P
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…well, Porsche not always hat the “strongest” cars around, to say it, in most of the comparisons Porsches had less hp/torque than the competitors…
top premise of PAG has always been reliability NOT pure power… today it´s like this, and this is kinda unique in automotive engineering because to handle it like this requires simply perfect working conditions, lot´s of money and time, so engines out of Zuffenhausen have to pass one simple rule: “110%”… …introduced by Ferry Porsche ALL Porsche engines have to deliver 110% of their nominal output on the test rig, when they “only” deliver 100% they´re demounted and checked again… Porsche is testing ALL their vehicles under the worst conditions, and the Nordschleife is just the starter… besides, every single information from decades of motorsport history is used for the road cars, and we know that many many Porsche victories were only possible due to superior reliability against way more powerful rivals. and it´s clearly visible when u just look inside your daily newspaper in the advertising section – ever seen e.g. a good 993 for under 40-50k€ EVEN with apprx 100.000km and above !!??? …most of the cars are getting „kinda“ cheap when they get old and Porsche is THE brand keeping their purchase price, other brands are loosing 50% and more in the first couple of years – and why´s all that – because ppl know that Porsches are nearly indestructible, even with mileages way above 150 or 200.000km, we don´t have very detailed long term studies from the 996 and 997 series – sure – PAG would like to stay respectable with their claims, so no figures for that series, BUT e.g. for the 993 series the long term studies clearly showed that mileages above 300.000 !!! km are no problem if customers meet PAG´s services… this figure is regardeless if N/A or T engines… sure, it makes a huge difference if ppl will trackday their cars very ofen and especially here in germany many many customers take their cars to the track like NS – PAG knows that and as I said before WW introduced the new quality standards to deal with that, resulting in even better quality and as a nice side effect – more power… :P …to answer your question about the CGT, just WR tested it 30.000!!! km on the NS – one km at NS is compareable with 20km on normal roads – not to speak of the thousands and thousands of km´s done by test engineers all over the world, from Finland to Tokyo and into Death Valley – the engine is the LeMans engine and I think we know how serious PAG takes motor sport, so we think that no one really will ever discover the driving limit with the GT, it CAN be driven every day and I know some ppl that are driving it even in winter here in Europe, but no one really does this – they have other cars like 955´s for that… the GT is handbuilt and only 2 to 3 cars are leaving Leipzig every day so quality is just superb, to name a certain number is quite hard and also dependent on the driving style of each customer – till now we had not a single major problem with a GT, the worst thing I have seen´d been a torn driveshaft at the right rear axle during a track day at Leipzig – PAG immediately took the GT to the next Porsche workshop replaced the destroyed parts and sent the broken one´s to the EZW for further analyses – the customer payed nothing for all that, he was accommodated in one of the best hotels in Leipzig and had a 955TT as a rental car, besides Porsche Leipzig invited him to the next sports car training for free – just to give u an idea how customers are treated by PAG :wink: - well a bit OT now yes, u´re right, there´s been a plan by 9ff of a 900+hp GT – an asian customer who already had paid the deposit for a GT asked 9ff what should be possible with the GT, well Mr.Fatthauer only made a rough plan and guess, he´d only build/research such a project on a confirmed basis, would be way to expensive otherwise – well, 9ff deep froze the plan after the asian customer didn´t bought a GT… http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/31859.jpg http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/31860.jpg IMO it´s better like this, but i´m “afraid” that all the – especially german – tuners already have some plans for the GT – see Sportec… the original GT engine indeed revved over 10k rpm, see here: http://www.motorworld.net/forum/show...?p=26818#26818 IMO it´s the wrong way to tune the GT engine with turbos… …to discuss everything in detail would require way too much time and´d probably get too difficult but i´ll try to give u some ideas on the GT´s engine, the V10 is the engine with the highest compression ratio of all – 12.0:1 ( 11,2:1 for the Enzo ) – a high compression ratio in combination with turbocharging is probably the worst thing one could do to an engine, this´d simply destroy the engine – a fixed rule says: the more boost, the less compression ratio… reducing the compression ratio whould ensure that the engine won´t start knocking, so that the fuel air mixture won´t self-ignite, a knocking engine will self destroy itself very soon, especially pistons. this can be prevented by higher octane numbers – so higher ignition temps – “colder” sparking plugs, … at a compression ratio of 9:1 and a boost pressure of 1.5bars it´s like having a NA engine with a compression ratio of 15:1 – manufacturers are designing engines that can withstand with 99octan fuel a max compression ratio of 11.3:1 +/- 0.2 of course manufacturers like Porsche, Ferrari, Honda, BMW are running higher compression ratios in their high revving models, an active knocking control is required then to ensure the optimum ignition timing and therefore efficiency. A standard knocking control is not suited for such high revving engines because a high data interpretation is necessary to ensure a good combustion quality and therefore a gentle operation. so structure-borne noise sensors used in standard cars are replaced by ion-current technology the sparking plug acts as a actuator – for the ignition - and sensor for monitoring the combustion process directly in the middle of the combustion and not outside of the combustion chamber. with this technology power output, fuel efficiency and reliability can be improved… well, I think it´s enough now :wink: also tuning the high sophisticated engine parts such as cams, intake system, exhaust, could be kinda difficult because the overall system is already nearly perfect and is working together with all the relevant parameters, e.g. the cylinderhead design with the steep intake ports, which, in combination with the steep induction pipes, ensure an optimal mixture supply, a very low total valve angle of 21.4 degrees is the result of the flow optimised port layout. This valve arrangement allows a compact combustion chamber, which, together with a flat and relatively smooth crown and a compression ratio of 12:1, allows a very efficient combustion. changing different parameters and parts to gain more power would require quite some efforts and would “destroy” the product – there´re some cars that shouldn´t be touched by tuners… :) |
Thanks st-anger for taking the time to respond with such a lengthy and detailed response with lots of excellent info. I wanted to add something along with what you were saying about trying to increase the power output of the CGT. I’m not sure if many people know this but many times when a racing engine is tuned for maximum horsepower they do so at the expense of low end torque and drivability. Many of the racing engines from what I understand are really gutless below 4,000 RPM and have a very narrow power band so the horsepower curve is really steep and peaky. In addition as already noted the increased performance many times is done at the expense of longer-term reliability. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to mess with the CGT that is pure sacrilege :twisted: .
St-anger thank you for sharing the reliability data. It sounds like the tradition of Porsche is still high performance with long-term reliability. After reading what nthfinity wrote I was beginning to think that Porsche’s increased performance over the years may have had a necessary tradeoff in lower reliability but I am glad to hear that isn’t the case. Have you read anything similar to what nthfinity was referring to as far as high performance engines being designed by other manufactures to last 50,000 miles :P ? I may have read something into your statement that wasn’t intended :roll: but it sounded like the 993 series showed that the ratability data was the same regardless whether the car was normally aspirated or TT. Is this really the case? I would have expected that a higher output engine and TT no less would require more maintenance and repairs. Has there been a series that wasn’t as reliable as some of the other 911 series or one that was maybe more reliable than the reset. For example the 964 is notorious for having engine leaking problems and issues with the clutch. As I mentioned before from what I understand the 3.2L was extremely reliable. Some of that I think was due to the mechanical simplicity of the engine. In your opinion should the 993 and/or the 996 be as reliable or more so than the 3.2L? Thanks again great stuff. Don’t you just love PC. |
thankyou immensely for the detailed response St-Anger!!! some great information, and now time to do a little research.
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i love that statement 8) well, sure enough, a little searching shows some results http://www.sportec.ch/de/aktuell/news_detail.cfm?id=56 http://www.sportec.ch/upload/news/Dsc01539_kl.jpg http://www.sportec.ch/upload/news/Dsc01552_kl.jpg http://www.sportec.ch/upload/news/Dsc01552_kl.jpg http://www.sportec.ch/upload/news/Dsc0549_kl.jpg quick summary Quote:
again, thanks :) as lakatu said, PC is great! just to clarify, lakatu... st-a said about the MkII GT2 being a project in added reliabilty... and ended up making more power, i imagine due to new mechanical processes, simulations... use of, or creation of 'exotic alloys'.... |
…don´t want to name brands but yes, there´re quite some manufacturers knowing that their customers only drive their cars at weekends from A to B or for the garage only… :wink:
...that´s for sure – definitely MORE maintenance and repair work, I think we already had that topic when we were talking about the “perfect” car for the NS – GT3 RS or GT2!??? I said RS because besides some other reasons it´s a NA car, so less costs in every respect, engine, tyres, fuel, … but as I said – when speaking of mileage TT cars do not significantly differ from NA one´s – parts are simply stronger and the whole car is designed for more power… that a TT car is way more expensive is clear – when a engine rebuild is needed this may cost so much money like buying a used average car … :? but as hinted before and told by nthfinity parts are now that strong and reliable – due to many many measures - that the normal driver won´t ever meet the limits of his car… …right, u already said it – there´ve been some problems with the 964 series – but well, can´t think of any major problems in terms of reliability, but to answer that too – yes, the 3.2 is among the most popular Porsches ever because it´s simply indestructible, I think i´ve posted a very nice article on the 3.2 from “GT” – u can read everything in there… :) |
Thanks st-anger for responding to all my questions. It feels a little like old times and I’m sure you are really busy right now so I truly appreciate your sharing what little time you have :D .
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vid from 15012005: :arrow: link
Porsche GT3–RS Motorvision special track test @ Oschersleben race track... MV test driver Tim Schrick´s driving the RS at Motopark Oschersleben, a kinda new but very interesting race track built in 1997, track length is 3.667km and up to 13m wide, 23m altitude difference, 14corners, fasted lap ever driven is a 1:20.206 ( av.speed: 165kmh ) driven by Uwe Alzen in a FIA GT Porsche 911… http://www.is-mad.com/upload/userfil...bild_08_s6.jpg …down there u can see a comparison of a Porsche GT3 and a ///M CSL – will post some more stuff and lap times later… unfortunately i haven´t had the chance to drive a few laps there myself so i´m sorry that i can´t answer all the questions about this specific track and its subtleties… …at points 2, 3 and 5 – long drawn-out corners – handling and understeering tendency is tested, at point 4, a very fast left bend, turn in behaviour. at point 6 the stability under heavy acceleration out of a corner can be checked, same at point 7 where load cycle changes may occur. finally at point 8 the car´s roll is measured… http://www.is-mad.com/upload/userfil...chersleben.JPG …well, i think needn´t add something about the car itself – it´s just superb for the track :P |
thanks alot st-anger, dl now and will be back with my thoughts :D
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What an incredible video!!. Best one I have seen so far on the GT3 RS :shock: . I just wish I knew what they where saying but the video itself speaks volumes. It really makes me sad that Porsche didn’t certify this car for the U.S. :x They should have at least given us an option package on the regular GT3 to upgrade to the GT3 RS without the non body structural changes i.e. carbon fiber hood and Plexiglas window. I think that such a car should have been certifiable in the U.S. without additional crash testing…and if they were worried about diluting the appeal of the limited offering they could have forgone the wheel and paint schemes. That would have been perfectly fine with me :P .
I like the track layout and the variety of corners. Thanks st-anger for providing the video along with the track data and comments about the track. Extremely interesting and you’re right the there really isn’t much to say about the car itself. It is obvious that Porsche did an amazing job tailoring it to the track :) . |
Perhaps i am missing something; when i click the link i am taken to a JW page which reads "The topic or post you requested does not exist".
Have i done this corretly? :shock: Thanks for the info ^^ St Anger it is really cool having insight into the more technical knowledge that we would otherwise not understand just by looking at a vid.. Really appreciated :D |
...styla u have to be in the "download & upload" group to be able to dl the vid - sorry we can´t post it "outside" due to bandwidth limits...
...i´m gald u like the vid lakatu :) don´t worry - nothing really that important what they´re saying - just bla bla bla :wink: but i have to admit that it would be VERY good if u could speak some german - there´ll be "quite some" :wink: more vids like this one... :P ...well - marketing my friend :roll: naaa, to be honest don´t know why there´re no RS available for the us market - well, probably not the typical car for this market... ...hope that i´ll have some time to hit the track at Oschersleben this year and then i´ll be able to provide a FULL report - as always :wink: THX for ya thoughts and contribution lakatu, always good to get some feedback :P :P :P |
Sweet, I would love to watch more videos like this one. The driving in this video was much better than in Top Gear :P . It seems like all of the good videos are either in German or Japanese same for magazine articles. Maybe if I watch these videos over and over again I’ll learn a little German :lol: .
In regards to the RS, it seems that the best pieces never make it over to the U.S. We have a long history of getting left out of the higher performance models i.e. 930, 959, 964 RS, 3.8 RS, 993 GT2, 993 RS, RS 996 MKI GT3 and the list goes on. Strange since I think ½ of Porsches sales are on this side of the pond. My understanding is that it is a result of all the costs that are required to certify a U.S. car for U.S. impact protection standard laws. At least we were given the MKII GT3 and the 996 GT2. I’m defiantly grateful for that :wink: . Look forward to hearing a report about your experiences on Oschersleben. It looks like a nicer layout than HHR. With the elevation changes it is kind of like a cross of HHR with NS. |
thankyou St-A for the video... i too wish i could understand more then just a few words in german, but as lakatu said, the video speaks volumes just watching it go around the track... just an amazing car that really looks quite home at the track.
looking at the diagram, im suprised how similar the track times, and cornering speeds are to the CSL vs. the GT3 RS... the Porsche seems more the track friendly car in almost every way... i do know that the CSL has a very soft compound tire that cannot be driven very safely in wet situations, and even has a warning when bought. does the GT3 RS have a similar tire, or is it a more everyday use compound? lakatu, from what i have read in some auto magazine, Ruf imports the GT3 RS to the US... aside from a costom interior, and exterior color.... etc. all other GT3 RS artifacts appear to be in the Ruf 'conversion' http://www.rufautocentre.com/conversions/GT3.asp that one is to convert at 'normal' gt3 http://www.rufautocentre.com/newcars/RUF_RGT.asp this appears to be a new one, and fully RS... i think so, to say, if you had the funds, and you really wanted the gt3 in the us, that is the best way to get it 8) |
I have finally found some time to watch it - and thanks again st-anger, a very interesting video and as lakatu said one of the best on this car :D I could understand the majority of what was said (though my (Swiss)German is getting worse by the day) so thats good news :D
BTW, just out of curiosity which colour combo do you prefer for the GT3 RS st-anger? |
Thanks nthfinity for the info concerning Ruf. They always seem to help out the U.S. customer when Porsche occasionally forgets about us. I’m especially referring to the 930. The RGT doesn’t seem to be a true RS conversion though :( .
The GT3 RS runs on Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires which while have an aggressive tread i.e. fewer groves to expel water, they aren’t considered semi-racing slicks like the tires on the CSL which are Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. I believe that the RS would be significantly faster with semi slicks. Somebody correct me if I m wrong but I interrupted the chart of the track with lap times to be a comparison of a standard GT3 and not the RS to a CSL. I think that the RS would be faster than the CSL on a tight track like Oschersleben. If you compare the SA results of the CSL to the RS on HHR which is definitely a tight track the RS came in at 1.11,8 vs 1.13,5 for the CSL. The RS was 2-3 km/hr faster in the turns than the CSL. The track temperature was 34 degrees Celsius for the CSL and 17 degrees for the GT3 RS. 34 degrees is pretty hot, so I don’t know how this affected the CSL’s time. I do know that SA mentioned that the 997 would have been faster around HHR if the temperature wasn’t so hot and the temperature for the 997 test was 30 degrees Celsius. Dingo22 I don’t mean to speak for st-anger here but I know that like most people he prefers the red color scheme on the GT3 RS. |
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basically, i saw the words "porsche" in red, and "bmw" in green at the bottom, and asumed it was a gt3 vs. a csl based on st-anger saying Quote:
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What I meant nthfinity, was that it doesn’t look like a GT3 RS and I don’t think that the lightweight panels Ruf uses aren’t carbon fiber but are aluminum. It also has a widened body whereas the RS has the regular 996 narrow body. But you are right it is the closest thing available that I have seen also. I just wished that Porsche would import the genuine article to their most important and lucrative market :roll: .
On the chart of Oschersleben I also came to the same conclusion but since st-anger said GT3 and not GT3 RS and the fact that the Porsche was slower than the CSL I came to the conclusion that the comparison was between a regular and non RS GT3 and a CSL. I could be wrong and maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying in your post. I thought that you were surprised that the GT3 RS was slower than the CSL and I was just pointing out that I thought that the lap times were not for the GT3 RS. |
thankyou lakatu for clearing that up :) that cirtainly does make a lot more sence to the lap times posted, and cornering speeds
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Thanks a lot st-anger for all the time spend for those articles. I really appreciate, as everyone, and i'm looking forward to have access to the download section... (i hope)
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Finally watched the RS video.. as always, pur eaction, pure enjoyment!! Thanks st-anger!!
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...and yes, you´re right the red scheme is my fav one... |
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I also want to see the RS video.... :( :( |
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I believe I have seen this before and was just looking for it this past weekend but couldn't....so this is perfect timing :D
Thanks alot st-anger :D EDIT: It was the one I've seen before, its kind of scary that a couple of days ago I thought about this exact vid and here it is :shock: BTW, its a great vid....lots of awesome driving, especially by the Carlsson car :D |
vid from 05032005: :arrow: link
AM Vanquish MV test http://www.is-mad.com/upload/userfil...r/original.jpg ...another Motorvision test, this time drivers Mattias Lauda, 23 years old F3000 racer and son of famous Austrian F1 driver Niki Lauda... in short heres what Lauda jun. said about the Vanquish: ...even on the first few meters one has to realize that its quite a heavy car but nevertheless its still fun to drive with a good design, very wide, thats what he likes best. the cockpit is quite ok, steering wheels a bit too thick, switching into reverse gears quite annoying because of the buttons on the dashboard. the leather working up is not that good, especially the seats, some buttons are from Ford, so not that good for the overall quality impression... on the track the engine has too less torque at low rpms, gearbox is quite good with added double-clutch when downshifting, so very smooth, upshifting could be better, but well, its no pure sports car so its ok... nevertheless the gearing is too long for the track. the steering is too soft with too less feedback when cornering so again not very sports car like, resulting in a sluggish and soft handling behaviour. under wet conditions the weight is even more a problem, the car feels heavy especially when breaking... but all in all he really liked the car but its definitely not the very best choice for the track... |
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Thanks mate.....what a nice sound the Vanquish makes, so brutal. :D I would still take a DB9 over it due to the better looks :wink:
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Sweet vid - and great idea putting all of the PC vids in one section, and then having discussions. Look forward to seeing the rest.
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As to the Vanquish vs. DB9 comparison you have to take into consideration that the DB9 is a few years younger which makes a huge difference nowadays as both design and performance evolve incredibly quickly. As a result even some of two-years old cars can be found quite out-of-date. |
Oh, I finally watched the Vanquish review by Lauda junior, and it was again a nice one! Plenty of V12 music and never covered by useless music :D
The review is a very good one, sadly I can't really understand everything, but enough to say it is a good and indepth impression he gives to us. Always nice to see a superb car in action on track, this vid is a must, thanks st-anger!! |
Sorry so late on this one but I just got around to watching it. Thanks st-anger for providing a summary translation since at least half of the video seemed to be commentary. The Vanquish seems to be in an odd marketing position with so much power and yet so heavy. So not really a sports car but a touring GT. I think it is a nice looking car but if I was looking for this type of car I think I would take the Ferrari 575M which I believe are priced similarly.
Is the GT3 coming up next :P ? BTW I still watch the MV GT3 RS video. Every time I see it I wish there was one parked in my garage. |
Great sound by the V12 but I still love more and more the 575M GTC, or better the 550 LM by Care Racing :P :P
By the way, in sounds and drifts video the GT3 was impressive, I wonder how it's possible to build a car so fast with the engine in the wrong position, a car capable to be as sharp as a katana and so ignorant as an hooligan that goes sideways everyweher you want |
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Thankyou, the Gemballa is definately an extreme machine - probably too much for most :) You can definately hear everyone of those horsepower - not subtle :P
For 300,000 Euro (about $AU 500K) I would buy a 993/996/997 Turbo (when the last one comes out) and have alot of spare cash and get an F355 aswell :wink: If the GTR 600 Evo runs 1.4bar of boost, what is it from the Porsche factory? |
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