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-   -   US laws threatening to put Bugatti out of business (http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40329)

vexor 08-16-2006 01:56 PM
US laws threatening to put Bugatti out of business
 
Quote:
U.S. airbag rules could "put Bugatti out of business"


U.S. airbag regulations are threatening to "put Bugatti out of business," said company president Thomas Bscher in a letter to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. He said the new regulations — which go into effect in September — would cause Bugatti "substantial economic hardship" and have a "catastrophic" impact on sales. That's because the required changes would add at least ten percent to the cost of the automaker's only car, the Veyron.

In May, Ferrari was granted an exemption from the new rules for its F430 supercar. The regulations aim to require "smart" airbags that will help protect children and some women.

Volkswagen — which owns Bugatti — has warned that profits at its Lamborghini subsidiary may also be decimated if the automaker is not granted an exemption. VW has said it would have to conduct 120 crash tests to implement the technology. The automaker said Lamborghini's earnings would fall from a $2.2 million profit to a $6.0 million loss. Meanwhile, Bugatti is already expecting to lose $3.8 million over the next three years, and the added costs would make any near-term profitability impossible.

VW argues that the "smart" airbags do little to improve safety. The automaker also warns it would have to delay or stop development of the next-generation Veyron. Bugatti says the next-generation Veyron — due in 2009 — would meet the regulations.
-LeftLaneNews.com

I guess RC would be happy about this news...

America please stop it with these "overkill" car safety laws.

RC45 08-16-2006 03:50 PM
Interesting....

So while all the world is bashing the US... hating on America... despising the low morals... yelling at the religious zealots...

You ALL need the US money to stay in business....

So now you NEED the US consumer, and as such the legislation makes it expensive to do buisness here and being that this is the biggest market buying your crap you are going to go bellyup ?

My answer.


:fist:

:)

r2r 08-16-2006 04:17 PM
WTF!

Another bullshit law from U.S. :twisted:


I am completely baffled that these kind of supercars require the same safety regulations as a normal car!!

When your buying a supercar you know exactly what risks you are taking, its not a family sedan or a minivan that you are going to be carrying your kids to school in!

Hope Lamborghini and Bugatti find a way out of the ridiculous nonsense.

:roll:

RC45 08-16-2006 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
When your buying a supercar you know exactly what risks you are taking, its not a family sedan or a minivan that you are going to be carrying your kids to school in!
Do you take classes to come up with statements like this? Or does it come naturally?

rave426 08-16-2006 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
WTF!

I am completely baffled that these kind of supercars require the same safety regulations as a normal car!!
Uhh....Why? Probably because they go 3 times as fast and the people who buy them arent 3 times as talented as normal people.

People dont buy a base model ford f-150 to go fast, but the safety is still there. People buy the Veyron to go fast, but you dont think the safety shouldnt be as critical?

If the world's automakers had that in mind, then not only would super and hyper cars be ultra light, but wrecking in a similar fashion as normal car would probably put you in a whole lot more pain.

Anyway, after all that....... Yes, if this is true it is pretty rediculous and they shouldnt have to deal with it :D

r2r 08-16-2006 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rave426
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
WTF!

I am completely baffled that these kind of supercars require the same safety regulations as a normal car!!
Uhh....Why? Probably because they go 3 times as fast and the people who buy them arent 3 times as talented as normal people.

People dont buy a base model ford f-150 to go fast, but the safety is still there. People buy the Veyron to go fast, but you dont think the safety shouldnt be as critical?

If the world's automakers had that in mind, then not only would super and hyper cars be ultra light, but wrecking in a similar fashion as normal car would probably put you in a whole lot more pain.

Anyway, after all that....... Yes, if this is true it is pretty rediculous and they shouldnt have to deal with it :D
What?

You just completely contradicted yourself!

first you said they should be safe, then you say "they shouldn’t have to deal with it"

You don’t buy a supercar to be safe in, you buy it for performance. If you are willing to take it to speeds 3 times as fast then you have to deal with the consequences that may come up.

My point is I would take performance any day over safety in a supercar!

Today people have become too dependent on safety features, and ask for everything to be safety proof!

What happened to the good old days where it was you, the car, and the road?

r2r 08-16-2006 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC45
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
When your buying a supercar you know exactly what risks you are taking, its not a family sedan or a minivan that you are going to be carrying your kids to school in!
Do you take classes to come up with statements like this? Or does it come naturally?
And what exactly is your point?

black_magician 08-16-2006 07:06 PM
Re: US laws threatening to put Bugatti out of business
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vexor


I guess RC would be happy about this news...

America please stop it with these "overkill" car safety laws.
It's not overkill, Britain has overkill laws. We have what we call "insane retarded jackasses" making "bad" laws. :lol:

dutchmasterflex 08-16-2006 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC45
Interesting....

So while all the world is bashing the US... hating on America... despising the low morals... yelling at the religious zealots...

You ALL need the US money to stay in business....

So now you NEED the US consumer, and as such the legislation makes it expensive to do buisness here and being that this is the biggest market buying your crap you are going to go bellyup ?

My answer.


:fist:

:)


ahahaha.. always trying to prove why the world needs the US..

Of course the world needs the US! Just try to think of a world with out America.. everyone would be speakin German right now


but back on topic..

I love how Ferrari was granted an excuse.. If this is true, poor VW :P

rave426 08-16-2006 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
Quote:
Originally Posted by rave426
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
WTF!

I am completely baffled that these kind of supercars require the same safety regulations as a normal car!!
Uhh....Why? Probably because they go 3 times as fast and the people who buy them arent 3 times as talented as normal people.

People dont buy a base model ford f-150 to go fast, but the safety is still there. People buy the Veyron to go fast, but you dont think the safety shouldnt be as critical?

If the world's automakers had that in mind, then not only would super and hyper cars be ultra light, but wrecking in a similar fashion as normal car would probably put you in a whole lot more pain.

Anyway, after all that....... Yes, if this is true it is pretty rediculous and they shouldnt have to deal with it :D
What?

You just completely contradicted yourself!

first you said they should be safe, then you say "they shouldn’t have to deal with it"

You don’t buy a supercar to be safe in, you buy it for performance. If you are willing to take it to speeds 3 times as fast then you have to deal with the consequences that may come up.

My point is I would take performance any day over safety in a supercar!

Today people have become too dependent on safety features, and ask for everything to be safety proof!

What happened to the good old days where it was you, the car, and the road?
Let me add this. Cars arent only made to be safe in regards to drivers mistakes, but they are also made to defend against other dumb ass drunk drivers. And the likelyhood is that someone is going to want to hit you even more because they think you are a rich prick.

Since you want to be critical let me make myself clear. First of all I was responding on the your quote about why do supercars need to be as safe as normal cars (thats a generalized statment if I remember correctly).

So I guess you are telling me that automakers should assume that the buyers of supercars are some kind of undercover driving savants that dont lose control.
:roll:

If you look at a race car you will see that it is very safe indeed, because it is engineered with high speed safety in mind. But if I remember correctly we are talking about a ROAD car. This car has to be driven on the along with other ROAD car buyers. You cant put every safety measure thats in a race car on a livable road car. It would be entirly too crude.

You know what.....How about you get your little hans device and use it everyday when you are driving your car. Se how many "thats a real car and a real driver" remarks you get out of that. Well we cant use a hans device all the time so automakers have to use other equipment.

You go ahead and drive your roll caged, crumple zoneless, side impactless, hans deviced enabled, helmet while drving, supercar while drving next to Bob "The Gunner" Jones in his 20 ton Ford F-850 Ultra Cab that is swerving because he had too many bud lights.

I'll take my "too safe" Carrera GT and be happy that I know I have a better chance of survival than you.

Finally, the reason for saying that VW shouldnt have to worry about it is because i dont want to see an great automobile company have to drop hard working engineers and workers because of a damn "smart" bag. It already has a bag im sure and a new one isnt going to make any difference. Also, if Ferrari got around it already, the VW shouldnt have to deal with it either.

I really hope you dont plan on becoming and engineer :|

fabro_s 08-16-2006 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dani_d_mas
Is this law only implemented for imported cars?? 'cause I read Bugatti, Lamborghini and Ferrari - but not Chevrolet, or Ford GT or Saleen... and I bet that they don't have 'smart' airbags either :?
I bet they dont!

rave426 08-16-2006 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabro_s
Quote:
Originally Posted by dani_d_mas
Is this law only implemented for imported cars?? 'cause I read Bugatti, Lamborghini and Ferrari - but not Chevrolet, or Ford GT or Saleen... and I bet that they don't have 'smart' airbags either :?
I bet they dont!
Of course they dont. All of those gov't agencies and big companies feed off of each other. Saftey department cause Ford go from +2 mil to -6 mil. Yeah right....they would kill befor that happened.

Hold up.............. 2.2 mil dollar profit That cant be right. That is absolutely nothing for a company like Lambo.

T-Bird 08-16-2006 09:57 PM
well Ford was one of the first to have these airbags and they also have a little thing called the grandfather clause since the cars were introduced in the model years previous to the new law they should be exempt, that or they aren't winey little bitches like these other companies since they probably saw this coming and planned ahead. The best part of all this is that those damned sensors in the seats to make them sense the weight go to shit all the time.

graywolf624 08-16-2006 09:59 PM
Quote:
Of course they dont. All of those gov't agencies and big companies feed off of each other. Saftey department cause Ford go from +2 mil to -6 mil. Yeah right....they would kill befor that happened.
Actually they do. The difference is, the cost isnt in the airbags, its in the crash tests. None of the American companies, save saleen maybe, makes a car (including base model) in such low numbers. Crash testing 120 corvettes when they sell 35-40000 a year is a bit different then 120 veryons. As for the ford gt, it wont be around that much longer. though even that, 120 crashed ford gts is a damn sight less then 120 veyrons... and the saleen.. well you might have a point there, but then again you would with ferrari as well. Saleen is hardly what Id call a big company.

Mattk 08-16-2006 10:53 PM
Quote:
You don’t buy a supercar to be safe in, you buy it for performance. If you are willing to take it to speeds 3 times as fast then you have to deal with the consequences that may come up.
So? A car manufacturer has a duty to provide safe cars for its consumers. It has to be safe enough to protect its occupants in a reasonable crash. Reasonability is determined by the appropriate stauatory authorities, who then set safety regulations etc.

If these smart airbags are not much better, then so be it. If the car is still reasonably safe, then that should be good enough for the authorities.

nthfinity 08-16-2006 11:04 PM
to my knowledge, Lambo was exemted last year, and I expect the same this year.

Bugatti, i believe since they import fewer then 300 cars per year are allowed to sidestep quite a few rules; but it is easier just to get exempted, i suppose....

RC45 08-16-2006 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC45
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2r
When your buying a supercar you know exactly what risks you are taking, its not a family sedan or a minivan that you are going to be carrying your kids to school in!
Do you take classes to come up with statements like this? Or does it come naturally?
And what exactly is your point?
My point? It's a rather silly statement.

Garretts_turbo 08-17-2006 12:54 AM
heh...airbags to protect dhildren and some women....someone please show me a veyron with a childseat in it :lol:

LotusGT1 08-17-2006 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC45
Interesting....

So while all the world is bashing the US... hating on America... despising the low morals... yelling at the religious zealots...

You ALL need the US money to stay in business....

So now you NEED the US consumer, and as such the legislation makes it expensive to do buisness here and being that this is the biggest market buying your crap you are going to go bellyup ?

My answer.


:fist:

:)
Ahahahahahaha.

r2r 08-17-2006 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rave426

Let me add this. Cars arent only made to be safe in regards to drivers mistakes, but they are also made to defend against other dumb ass drunk drivers. And the likelyhood is that someone is going to want to hit you even more because they think you are a rich prick.

Since you want to be critical let me make myself clear. First of all I was responding on the your quote about why do supercars need to be as safe as normal cars (thats a generalized statment if I remember correctly).

So I guess you are telling me that automakers should assume that the buyers of supercars are some kind of undercover driving savants that dont lose control.
:roll:

If you look at a race car you will see that it is very safe indeed, because it is engineered with high speed safety in mind. But if I remember correctly we are talking about a ROAD car. This car has to be driven on the along with other ROAD car buyers. You cant put every safety measure thats in a race car on a livable road car. It would be entirly too crude.

You know what.....How about you get your little hans device and use it everyday when you are driving your car. Se how many "thats a real car and a real driver" remarks you get out of that. Well we cant use a hans device all the time so automakers have to use other equipment.

You go ahead and drive your roll caged, crumple zoneless, side impactless, hans deviced enabled, helmet while drving, supercar while drving next to Bob "The Gunner" Jones in his 20 ton Ford F-850 Ultra Cab that is swerving because he had too many bud lights.

I'll take my "too safe" Carrera GT and be happy that I know I have a better chance of survival than you.

Finally, the reason for saying that VW shouldnt have to worry about it is because i dont want to see an great automobile company have to drop hard working engineers and workers because of a damn "smart" bag. It already has a bag im sure and a new one isnt going to make any difference. Also, if Ferrari got around it already, the VW shouldnt have to deal with it either.

I really hope you dont plan on becoming and engineer :|

Listen.

I’m not against having safe supercars on the road, but to implement an extra safety features so everybody ends up being happy is what I don’t agree with. Its that simple!

Why?

Because in the end it will add more complexity and manufacturing cost that would in the end either sacrifice performance and/or quality!

F40 and some older supercars didn’t have any of these nonsense’s, and they did more then fine. :wink:

r2r 08-17-2006 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattk
Quote:
You don’t buy a supercar to be safe in, you buy it for performance. If you are willing to take it to speeds 3 times as fast then you have to deal with the consequences that may come up.
So? A car manufacturer has a duty to provide safe cars for its consumers. It has to be safe enough to protect its occupants in a reasonable crash. Reasonability is determined by the appropriate stauatory authorities, who then set safety regulations etc.

If these smart airbags are not much better, then so be it. If the car is still reasonably safe, then that should be good enough for the authorities.

Ha ha,

Some of you on here seriously sound like some of those mothers that grow their children up by not allowing them to do anything they can't supervise over.


Doesn’t the fact that the rest of Europe and the world is happy with the safety of these supercars make it safe to drive?

I mean do you want every person in the world to be happy before you can buy one?

With the way things are going and to satisfy people like yourself, they will keep adding safety features to cars like these until one day it will be a car where it will drive itself,

because it will detect that you (the person) are too stupid to drive yourself 100% safely. Maybe will all be happy by then :P

Mattk 08-17-2006 06:11 AM
Quote:
F40 and some older supercars didn’t have any of these nonsense’s, and they did more then fine.
Times were different then.

Quote:
Doesn’t the fact that the rest of Europe and the world is happy with the safety of these supercars make it safe to drive?
Hence, exemptions.

vbnhu 08-17-2006 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nthfinity
to my knowledge, Lambo was exemted last year, and I expect the same this year.

Bugatti, i believe since they import fewer then 300 cars per year are allowed to sidestep quite a few rules; but it is easier just to get exempted, i suppose....
I think Ferrari was exemted not Lamborghini, there are always different rules apply to them. ;-)

kjekki 08-18-2006 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattk
Quote:
F40 and some older supercars didn’t have any of these nonsense’s, and they did more then fine.
Times were different then.
Times were better then :wink:

Skaala 09-01-2006 10:50 AM
Re: US laws threatening to put Bugatti out of business
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vexor
America please stop it with these "overkill" car safety laws.
:clap:


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