Autozeitung: Porsche 997 GT3 RS vs Corvette Z06
 

http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33099_300.jpg


Complete translated article:

TRACK test Corvette Z06 against Porsche 911 GT3 R-S
Both place the basis for a racing car, and the Corvette Z06 and the new Porsche nevertheless separate 911 GT3 R-S worlds. Running professional Kurt Thiim tests both on the Formel-1-Kurs in Hockenheim
Red-Green the couple draws each attention in the nearly deserted driver camp of the Hockenheim ring on itself. „That the hardest examination for the Corvette “, prophesied ex-DTM-professional Kurt Thiim. And it is right.

The potent US hammer is compromiseless built: small weight owing to a chassis from aluminum and carbon fiber composite materials, bear-strongly owing to the largest Small-Block-V8, the general of engine built ever, and drehzahlfest owing to titanium piston rods, sodium-filled titanium intake valves and aluminum flat-topped pistons. Only the valve gear is still made by a central arranged cam shaft. 512 HP as well as 637 Newtonmeters torque speak a clear language, the maximum speed of 320 km/h likewise. In the end still the Sahnehäubchen: The weight per horsepower of the Z06 is with only 2.8 kg/PS. That should be enough, in order to frighten each Porsche, or?

But: On a good round time also things decide such as brake performance and driving stability in the frontier. And here in the comparison to the flat, broad Corvette nearly delicate 911 GT3 R-S set, weight per horsepower: 3,3 kg/PS. And the R-S models show already since 1972, what is possible in puncto driving dynamics with one to road-certified for car.

Newest R-S is there no exception. Again 20 Kilos more easily than the normal GT3 and equipped with an adjustable chassis, optimized aerodynamics as well as finest Racing attributes, he start, in order to control the sports car world.

The hoarse barking 3,6-Liter-Boxer in the tail has not only just as exclusive Innereien now as the GM-V8, but also over an a mass flywheel, which saves eight Kilos opposite the conventional flywheel. „The engine reacted thereby very spritzig, turns phänomenal fast highly “, describes to Thiim the effects, „at all, the Porsche is actually a racing car, you notices it immediately at the clutch counter-pressure or also at the high switching forces. And if you drive off in the morning, it cracks here and there, Laufgeräusche comes from the drive strand. You experience the same, if you roll with a cold racing car from the box lane on the runway - wonderful. “

In relation to achievement disadvantage the Corvette - 415 to 512 HP - the GT3 R-S with its chassis and the standard Michelin Semi Slicks wants to than only compensate more. The Goodyear Runflatreifen of the Ami is there rather a everyday life-suited solution.

Thiim decides after two sample rounds with the two cars as the first for the Z06: „The conversion between the two cars is giant-largely, thus around falls it however somewhat more easily. “The Dane does without any electronic support. Thus he selects the attitude „ASR and active handling out “in the cockpit display. After short approach the V8 bollert over the start/goal straight line. With 204 km/h Thiim throws the anchor before the north curve and switches down.

Becomes clear already here: „You must leave yourself time when switching, otherwise it cracks in the transmission. The operating paths are clearly longer and not like that exactly defined as in the Porsche. “The second characteristic of the Corvette becomes clear in the next right curve before the long Parabolika: Of 211 km/h Thiim must down up to 58 things, to give in and on as early an accelerating as possible concentrate at the same time. „All no problem, but in the seats of the Corvette I find too little stop to technical and slip partly somewhat helplessly around “, say Thiim later.

But which after the slide portion follows, fascinates the Dane: „The Drehmomentkick and this Beschleunigungsorgie up to the pointed turn place simply everything into the shade. “251 km/h the government inspection department measuring instrument indicates at the point of applying brakes gently, to only 44 km/h stands the close right curve - maximum permissible load for all vehicle components. „The car remains very stable with these hard brakings. But the tires are overtaxed on the racing course and lubricate. The handling loses thereby at precision. “

Again the Z06 start, as if would be the devil behind it ago. The large V8 has easy play with the unloaded weight of 1440 kilograms. In the gentle right break before the Mercedes grandstand Thiim must briefly of the gas and loses speed. Also the following sector into and by the Kurvengeschlängel of the Motodrom becomes probably never the favourite playground of the Corvette. Thiim: „You must force yourself in curves again and again to the peace, give the car time to stabilize. Only so you can use the whole power.

The body movements are more pronounced in the comparison to the Porsche and want to be taken into account. “Accordingly the applying brakes gently speeds are very highly, the curve speeds however rather average. Only the outward easily superelevated special curve facilitates it the Corvette a little. The drift with 97 km/h at the entrance to starting/goal straight lines is hardly to be avoided. Few seconds later Kurt Thiim with 187 km/h rushes by the light barrier. Its total time: 1.57, 90 minutes

The racing professional rises directly over into the Porsche and squeezes themselves into the bowl seat. The electronic PASM chassis pressed on hard posed, those sport key for still more spontaneous responding of the engine and traction control deactivates - it can loose-go. Hoarse roaring the GT3 R-S hunts on the north curve to and brakes clearly later than the Corvette. However it is here also nine km/h more slowly than the Z06.

The same play before the next curve: very late and hard applying brakes gently into the curve inside, then just as early accelerating. Here the class of the chassis and the tire show up. The rate of turn is appropriate for ten km/h more highly than with the Corvette. Then the pointed turn, Thiim follows applies brakes gently with 241 km/h, thus ten km/h lose on the US sportsman. But: The brake point lies stately 23 meters later, that is nearly five vehicle lengths.

Thiim in addition: „Nevertheless, in order to realize a time advantage with the Porsche, you must drive and the engine out crimpings very exactly. But for it this car is exactly built. Giving in behavior and driving stability are simply great. “Where it had to almost give full power in the Corvette carefully to act, can it in the Porsche. And it must it also, because up to applying brakes gently before the Mercedes grandstand the Corvette lies still in front with 0.87 seconds projection/lead. „You can take the entrance into the Motodrom in the Porsche nearly fully. There the new aerodynamics of R-S already plays a large role “, says Thiim.

Now the running driver plays his decades of experience out and flogs the Elfer by the curves. In the last sector it actually gets a projection/lead of 1.23 seconds raus and crosses after 1.57, 44 minutes the goal line, knappe five tenth ofs a second in former times as with the Corvette. Thiim rolls abgekämpft into the box lane: „If you so a Porsche to buy want to be, must you a Racer. Otherwise the outstanding driving experience is opened for you never. The GT3 R-S is not a toy. “

Result
“The test was a large surprise for me. We have here two completely different sports car concepts, which can be moved as expected also completely differently. On the side with the Corvette Z06 a genuine Powercar from the USA with 7,0 litres capacity to the asking price. On the other side a racing car with road permission. The Porsche 911 GT3 R-S as something else to designate, would be missed. During the series tyre the two separate worlds likewise. Everyday life-suited Runflat tires on the V8-Monster, Semi Slicks on the finely balanced racer. And which happens? The two separate only five tenth ofs a second at the end. The Porsche makes exactly what you want. The Corvette presses as wildly forward. But you can convert Kraft many more badly, because you must constantly fight. You need in the Corvette also more courage than in the Porsche, it come even in the fourth course still crosswise. If you could bring these Kraft on the bitumen - Semi Slicks does not give it for the Z06 to time yet -, then it were a genuine monster. The Porsche is that absolutely rounds and snaps total package.”

Z06
Laptime: 1,57.90 min
GT3 RS
Laptime: 1,57.44 min



http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33105_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33109_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33125_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33133_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33137_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33141_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33149_1024.jpg


http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33169_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33177_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33185_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33193_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33197_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33205_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33209_1024.jpg

This is a test for me, 2 of my fav cars :D !

Thanks so much!

The Vette is fast round a track :shock:

RC you the man! You've always said so!

What's up with the Z06:s drivers seat? Looks like it's from a couple of years old car. Well Who cares, two awesome cars with breathtaking performance. I know many of you seem to like that green porsche color but I think it's just hideous. But really, who cares..

Nice review, even though its translated from German to English..Finally someone compares the Z06 to it's correct rival..

The Z06 wouldnt even need to be "stripped out" to beat this RS, just a pair of semi-slick tires and I'm sure it would whoop the Porsche.

Great photos too! Thanks Just_Me

Very impressite Vette... but still, would prefer the Porsche..

It's faster around the corners, and that's what makes it more driver focused... unless I'm on a race, I don't care if he looses on the straights!! :D

And the interior of the Porsche is waaaay more in "the spirit", the wheel, the bucket seats... :D But... would take it in white or orange. Not green...

That Z06 impresses me more and more everyday

z06 is somewhat stripped out C6, there is not so much to loose more and to be a street car.

In the new EVO there is a lingenfelter z06, missing a few ponies but still impressively fast, compared to 599 too that is the ultimate GT car at the moment.

The result will be reversed if both are wearing the same tires. Great article Just_me, thanks alot!

the Corvette would be just as fast, possibly even faster in the corners if it had semi slicks too ;)

Actually - other than only being available with a 6-speed, the Z06 is NOT stripped out compared to other Corvettes by any means.

A "stripped out" Z06 would be 100kg's lighter and if built with the same razor edge of the GT3-RS would be outlapping the CGT and Enzo.. ;)

It is a superbly comfortable spacious daily driver when compared to the competition - You can get 2 full size golf bags and a couple of piese of luggage int eh Vette - so youcan use the car on Sunday at the race track, Monday and Tuesday for client meetings - then take that senator you are trying to bribe out to golf on Wednrsday - take the day off Thursday for a country drive - Friday take the mistress to the moveis, and Saturday take the wife to the opera...

All in the same car... :)

That is the beauty of the Z06. And this has been true since the car was launched as a 2001 model when compared to it's competition ;)

Of course compared to Veyron it is a plastuic piece of shit.. but if you are poor slob - the Z06 is the car to have ;)

Hey thank you for that post.

Is the GT3 RS going to be available in the US?

Otherwise the comparison could never happen over here. From what I gathered the Corvette was running on street tires and the GT3RS was on racing tires and the times were very close. That really says alot for the Porsche to make up the 100hp disadvantage.

I'm figuring the GT3RS will be $150,000 by the time it reaches this side of the pond, where as the Z06 is only $70,000 or so.

By the time these cars are five years old, I might be able to afford the Z06.

Something to look forward to.

Super post thanks for translating the article.

According to Porsche's German site, the base Carrera is 1395 kg, and the GT3 RS is 1375 kg (i.e. a difference of 20 kg - compared to the 100 kg difference on the vette that you're suggesting). The GT3 RS is not 'stripped out'. What ever weight was removed, was replaced with things like a cage, rear wing, fire extinguisher, etc. to make it better suited for track work. In other words, it was engineered for it's intended application, not just stripped out by some 'tuners'.

Furthermore, Porsche didn't switch from a steal to an aluminum chassis like the vette designers did. In addition, for what it's worth, Porsche will make money on every GT3 RS they sell, whereas GM might as well fill those golf bags with cash, in the back of every Z06 they manage to sell...

Well evo timed the CGT around their Bedford circuit originally at a 1:19.70, whereas the Z06 came in at 1:24.45. So, I think you're dreaming.

Have you ever been in and or around an RS setup Porsche? For that matter have you ever been in and around a plain-jane GT3?

The car is quite more agressively set up and tuned than the run of the mill 911 or even the Turbo. And if youwere an objective commentator youwould acknowledge this.

You have an obvious bias - because as you pointed out the RS was purpose built for the track, and barely beats the 100% street car, run-flat tyred Z06 - yet you refuse to acknowledge this means something.

Oh - and before you get all hot and sweaty about me being a Porsche hater, far from it - I am a Porsche lover and have been in and around a number of rather special Porsches and apreciate them for what they are - and while some are suited to be fantastic comfy daily drivers - the GT3-RS is not.

What exactly is your point?

GM sells every Corvette they produce... The same way Porsche sell all the 911 they produce.

Are you always this slow? I stated "if the car was stripped out, 100kgs lighter and built with the same razors edge as the GT3-RS" - I never claimed the current setup will do it.

I have to conclude wome people are first class magazine racers and little else - ands it is not possible to cinduct an adult discussion vizaviz performance cars because al they can do is show bias and argumentive responses.

Just give credit where credit is due for God's sake and move on.

Yes the GT3-RS is coming to the USA, and at 2 will be in Houston in a month or so.. expect an indepth PhotoShoot.

Considering that the Porsche had semi-slick tires which could give an advantage of 1-2 seconds, the Vette's time is really good.

Exactly :wink:

The Zo6 is beginning to completely win me over (also due to RC for the biggest part!) :mrgreen:

So where might someone in Houston see the two RS's. I might like to see new the car I will be buying in 10 years. In that time I might even grow to like the lime green color.

Nice article and great pics! I would love to see those two cars in my garage, but I want the Z06 in black with black wheels and black interior and the GT3RS in orange/black.

Yes I have, although not a 997 GT3/RS, as I actually did a work term in Weissach, and as such managed to get on the track on numerous occasions, with several different 911s.

Are you the pot here, or the kettle?

No, you have made it abundantly clear that you are, among other things, a Veyron hater. I guess you can draw more of a crowd with this moniker, as it seems that there are many in this camp. I can only assume you don't speak out against Porsches, because they have a very large fan base among 'true' car enthusiasts. I do find it kind of strange that you claim to like both vettes and Porsches though, as they are at pretty much opposite end of the spectrum in most regards.

Interesting this, as just a couple of weeks ago I saw an add in the Globe and Mail for a Chevy dealer just outside Toronto (Colonial @888-286-0914), where they had advertised (among other 'old' new vettes) a 'new' 2005 Z06 Black/Black for 'must sell' CDN$89 000, with a MSRP of CDN 102 000. I can't remember seeing any potentially 2 year old (new) 911s listed in the paper. Furthermore, my point is not whether GM has difficulties moving Z06s or not, which they appear to, now that you mention this, but rather that it (as is the case with the Ford GT, Viper, NSX, etc., etc.) is a loss leader for them. So, when people keep going on about how cheap the Z06 is, they are not considering how much GM is subsidizing the car, just like VW has done with the Veyron (there, I have just provided some amo for you).

On the other hand, Wendelin Wiedeking, has made it quite clear from the outset, that all Porsche models will only be commissioned, if they can make a profit on their own (this even included the CGT).

The 'credit' that you refer to is that 'Auto Zeitung', which has to be one of the cheesiest German magazines (I know, because I have been reading ams since 1986, as well as sport auto over the past 10 years or so) quoted similar times for both cars. For me the only credible and somewhat telling info listed in the article, is that even with a racing driver at the helm, the Z06 was simply a 'point and shoot' car. In other words it was very fast down the straights (what an accomplishment with a 7.0L vs. a 3.6L engine in similar weight vehicles), and very slow and edgy through the corners. Even with track rubber, I can only assume that this contrast would only be reduced and not changed in its favour.

Considering this fact, isn't it funny how you accused the Veyron of being this kind of vehicle, eh?

I like Porsches and Corvettes. I currently own and drive both. I intend to some day have both a Z06 and a GT3RS. I cheer for both at Le Mans and here in Houston. They are as different now, as they were in the 1960's. One is fibreglass the other steel one front engined the other rear. One made in the US the other in Germany. Brute force vs finesse its always been that way, I hope it never changes.

The Veyron is still too new for me. It doesn't race yet.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3...3086xg2.th.jpg
From the Concorso Italiano in Monterey 2006

It competes to me with the F1 and the Enzo, its really way beyond my league, if I had to pick between the three, it would be the F1.

What little crediblity you had is shot to hell with this very pointed statement - the same race driver in one of the hardest edged and most purposeful designed "race cars" in street trim, the GT3-RS barely edged away from the pure-street, daily driver, run-flat tyred, Z06.

By your ramblings, it is almost as if the closest you have ever been to a high powered sports car is reading magazines in the toilet - because if you had any practical experience you would know that the time seperating these two (and every other 3200lb/500hp car) is so small and dependant on the day/conditions/driver - and that either of these car is so brutal and fast it would make you piss in your pants in a heart beat.

Again - do you not get the point - the GT3-RS is specifically and radically tune in the suspension department to feel, run and gun like a dedictaed race car - and it is to be expected to hadnle the way it does, the fact the test showed the race rubber car vs the street tyre car was so close is actually all the prrof yo uneed - the Z06 is not a "point and shoot PS3 console" far from it.

There is no coparison - the Veyron cannot be operate dby a human without all the aids turned on.. making it a point and shoot car.

BTW - I would love to knowm have you ever piloted a car/bike in anger aorund a closed course? Because your reasoing seems to point towards someoen who hasn't - and thus thinks in terms of magazine stats and hearsay with regard to car performance.

I have to just wonder - really.

How far you are from the truth. Although I do not claim to get as much track time as I would like (usually only 2/year), every car I have driven over the past 10 years has been modified extensively (including dedicated track wheels & tires) for track work. Furthermore, I don't call parking lots tracks. A track is an actual road course, with some element of danger, otherwise what's the difference between it and a PS2 game? Most recently, I did an event at Mosport last fall, and it was everything I had expected. Have you even heard of Mosport? Oh, and I have also been around the Nurburgring, although it was back in 1986, so I wasn't driving at the time; have you?

Interesting, as evo stated (when describing the Z06) in their December 2007 Car of the Year issue, where the outcome was 1st 599 GTB, 2nd 997GT3, 3rd LP 640 and 4th Z06:

"If it were built by Porsche it would wear an RS badge and command twice the asking price"

I would agree that this statement is a bit of stretch, especially considering the rubber, but clearly people that have driven it don't consider it to be quite the daily 'beater' that you make it seem, unlike the GT3 which at least has PASM (on the 997) and sat nav. Most of the American magazines which have compared it against it's peers have also stated that it is a pretty focused device and tricky at the limit, as has Jeremy Clarkson, for whatever that's worth.

You're missing the point; it's a GT - that's they way it will be driven by the people who can actually afford it.

Wow, I guess this is a good example of perspective, and how you seem to lack it. I am educated in the area of science which helps me understand why cars do what they do. I also drive very enthusiastically when ever the opportunity arises, including on real tracks. I have met many people at track events or otherwise, who think that they know a lot about cars, but can't tell you what the difference is between under and oversteer (and some of them weren't even that slow on track).

Realistically, very few people are afforded the opportunity to drive as many different high performance cars, in anger/on track, etc. as some of the magazine writers can. What they state is up for public scrutiny by a very wide audience, it is not hearsay. That's why some of them develope a corresponding good/bad reputation, like Auto Zeitung. Can you even read German, or did you just rely on what this guy wrote anyway?

Well - look at what they compare it to.

But they are speaking absolute tripe.

The C6 Z06 is not even close to the razors edge a GT3 is.... it is a great all rounder with space and comfort to spare - which makes it a fantastic daily driver considering the great gas milage it gets.

This statement is so full of carp it is hard to not vomit on the spot.

Are you suggesting the Z06 has no stability management or SAT NAv?

And exactly what cars has the Z06 been compared to? I am imagining each of those is quite focused as well.


In other words the 1000hp is pointless without the elctronic aids and the car is no where the "sports' car every one makes it out to be... uhm - thats exactly what we say about it.

So you basically take magazine hearsay as gospel.

No, I take the general consensus of British mags ('Autocar', 'evo' and sometimes 'car') and German ('sport auto' and 'auto motor und sport'), along with the male reviews performed on 5th gear, and some Best Motoring shows as a pretty good indicator of how high-end cars perform comparatively.

Regarding the Z06 in general, I would say it represents an excellent price/performance buy. However, if you can afford more, there are much better and better engineered vehicles out there. They also don't feel like they're put together like a $20 000 American car is.

We actually did some development work on a C6 Z06, and although I didn't drive it myself (this particular program was not my responsibility), one of the guys who did (who has driven everything from his Cayman S to a single turbo 935 and a 993 GT2 evo on Mosport) said that it was really fast, but was pretty hairy at the limit. He also said it felt like a piece of junk. He was actually considering it before he bought his Cayman S (same kind of money). He has not looked back at his decision since...

So, in a nut shell, if you like doing stop light drags on a budget, or only drive on relatively smooth tracks, it would make a good choice. On the other hand, that line you mentioned about taking it to the Theater or something, is ridiculous. Corvettes have never been considered in good taste among the 'old money folk'. They have always been an example of the 'brute force' approach. Although, I will admit that the C6 Z06 has been as close to a properly engineered car as they have ever come, and if they would just work on the suspension and fit/finish quality, they would have a genuine contender!

well aside from the little debate we have going on here, thanks for the read and the translation. but personally i would perfer an Evolution to these cars. for the simple fact that it can "hang" with these guys and carry two more doors.

Oh - so you are a magazine racer.

Enough said.

Christ - have you ever driven one? Or any of its competitors? Because you are completely full of shit if you say "it feels like a $20,000 American car".

Absolutely full of shit. HAving spent an entire day in a Ruf RT12 I can tell you it felt no different than a C6 Z06 - other than being faster.

The same is true for the other competitors.

To say otherwise porove the bias you display.

Oh - so you haven't driven one. What a surprise.. :roll:

And a 993 GT2 wasn't? Yet another biased load of crap.

Again - what a crock of shit - It felt like a peice of junk? Ha --- again, the car feels no different to it's competitors.. I am amaqzed at the utter tripe people like yourself spew forth.

"Cortvette is kaka.. Porsche is uber..." :roll:

Ibet he gets lots of looks from the other pooftas at Starbucks..

I should imagine not - it's a nice medium performing medium paced car - ideal for the poser.

What a crock of shit - He was cross shopping a Cayman and Z06.. uhm - the car's are in the same price range - but - uhm - not market competitors.. the mere fact you and he seem to think they are "competirots" is rather telling.

He may as wlel have bought a Boxster or S2000 or better yet an Audi TT.

Again with a very ill-informed biased load of tripe.

$70,000 stoplights on a budget? Or short smooth tracks? WTF? You have NO IDEA what you are rambling about.

Shut the fuck up already with your crap.

Old money

WTF are youon about old fucking money?

WTF does "old money" havce to do with a sports car?

You are a freaking poser through and through.

Yeha - because the stock suspension is only good for 7m43s at the Nurbirgring.. :roll:

Jesus you are one biased ill informed mutha fucker.. and I am holding back on that one :)

Fuck - all you fit and finish people are so quick to mouth off - but put 7 modern cars next to each other and ask you to quanitfy this "fit and finish" and you come up with no answer.

I am amazed that for a so called knowledgable folks can continue to spew such drivel.

:roll:

At least youstate your opinion as that - an opinion and move on.. ;)

Unlike some of our more ill-informed members that seem to think you are either "for" or "against" any cars - he refuses to believe that people can actually like, enjoy and have fun with more than one make of car - and give credit to each that deserve it.

I guess some people just "believe" their opinion to be fact.

I dont really want to get involved in this little debate, but that comment is pretty funny. You would be surprised at the amount of people here in the States that are avid Corvette collectors. It is a popular brand from the first gen to the present, so I wouldnt be so sure that the old money folk dont like them.

Personally, I like the Z06 and the GT3RS. Which one would I buy? I dont know, give me 60+ grand and I will let you know. I do like that I have a choice though. Even if I dont like a particular car, I am still glad its out there. It would suck if I had 50gs and went to buy a car and my choices were between a M3, a M3 and a M3. Even if I wanted the M3, its nice to know there are other options and that those options get the job done in different ways.

I just have one little thing I want to add in this angry little debate. I only have one complaint regarding Z06 and its the gearbox, its not smooth and its also a little tardy compared to the germans. Oh and one more thing, I would like the seats to attach the body better, they are too flat for active driving.
Other than these things the Z06 is a very attractive car for the money.

yeah RC likes me :P but you right i find it hard to believe how fan boys can not understand that there are other cars out there just as good or better.

them sound like fight'n words

My neighbor bought a new ZO6, his only complaint is he did not order the extra sound dampening. He has now bought the kit from the dealer and has installed it himself. He now has no complaints, he loves the car along with the others he has including a 2003 Porshe Turbo, an M5 Dinnan stage 3, M3 Dinnan stage whatever and a Buick Grand National. He drives the Corvette and the BMW's. I'm hoping to photo his "collection" some time for y'all.

The only problem I see with the GT3RS and the new ZO6 now is that the BlueDevil Stingray is comming out and Porsche will figure out something new to do, the used car price will decline. Thats what I am counting on, which helps me in my 5 and 10 year plan.

The point being just because you or anyone elses "thinks" it - doesn't make it so.

By definition a fanboy will support one only, to the detriment of all others.. which is so far from the truth it is laughable.

If only you (and the "rest") knew just how far and wide my sphere of interest and enjoyment goes vizaviz cars... but you don't care to know so I don't care to share it - as an example, I have given up sharing my 'What You Saw Today" portfolios... and trust me, they include some hot stuff :P

The reality is that unlike "the rest" I don't accept all the bogus "opinions' as fact.

Actually - if what I am saying is fact, then it is fact - whether I or anyone else says it.

I will defend anything that has lies and mis-truths told about it..

Please remind me, what exactly is the title of this thread?

I have never ever read or heard anyone, other than yourself, say that any corvette has a decent interior. I have sat in a regular C6 as well as the Z06, and would agree that the fit and finish is marginal for a 45k vehicle and pretty sad for a 75k one. Deny this all you want, but no one would ever by a vette for its level of quality! Don't get me wrong, this is not and should not be the focus of our discussion. It's just a 'fact'.

I am the one displaying a bias here - hmmm. I do not own a Veyron or a Porsche, so where exactly is my vested interest? If I'm not mistaken, you own a C5 Z06, right?...

Huh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT2 (see 993 GT2 evo)

So, Porsches are for posers and it's the corvettes that are driven by the real men? I thought you said that I was the biased one here? BTW, the last time I saw a statistic on them (in Automotive Industries - I know, another magazine...), over 80% of corvettes were sold with automatic transmissions. What exactly does that say?

A car purchase is not a one dimensional decision. Straight line performance appeals to Americans more than to pretty much anybody else. When I spoke to him again about it today, he mentioned that the driving position was crappy and the clutch/throttle/brake/shifter felt like they were patched together, unlike his Cayman. I know these seem like small details to you, but they are effectively a major part of the man/machine interface.

Were you starting to cry at this point?

you're really not going to like this quote then:

from evo 099, Pg. 129 (written by Richard Meaden)

"Far from feeling like the big, numb, unwieldy contraption that prejudice - and, it has to be said, prior experience of earlier incarnations of Vette - would have us believe, the (new) Z06 earned our respect and admiration."

Did you notice the cracks in the brake discs of this vehicle they tested? That was from one session at Spa. Not exactly robust. I guess that's why they have coined the term "Porsche brakes" and not "Corvette brakes".

This referred to one of your previous quotes were you were going on about how versatile the Z06 is and that you could take it to the opera or something. I was simply indicating that corvette would not be seen in those circles.

Hey, when someone spends 75 grand, even if they realize that they got a good deal on the performance side of the equation, they still expect a certain minimum level of quality.

Tell me, if you think the press is so useless and misleading than why are you referencing the lap times that Auto Zetiung apparently came up with? Are they only good when the print something that helps your argument and wrong, the majority of the rest of the time?

RC didnt comment om my post regarding Z06. Sounds like he agreed with me, that would be the first :lol:

Then you are a fucking idiot - period.

Get a camera and takle pictures of thsi supposed "bad interior" - point out the "bad bits".

Then go to some other "supposed superior" car and identify the superior bits.

Until then shut up wiht your assinine biased crap.

I have sat ina nd around SLR's, Caymens, Roll Royces, 911, RUF's, Gallardos, Murcis, Audis, Bentleys, Panoz's, Ferraris, Lotii etc etc - and when you do you realize this utter fucking crap printed about " the interior of this car vs that" is pure shit conhured up by magazine writers to cater to gullible idiots like yourself.

Its not as if there are huge gaps int he leather and glue oozing out of th ejoints and hair balls on the ceiling.

Fucking hell I am so sick and tired of the putrid rancid shit printed by magazines and lapped up by people like yourself as biased bogus shit indormation is pread about cars I am going to continue publishing my magazine just to show pompous windbags such as yourself up.

Fuck man - are you people kidding me?

So fucking what?

If youwere sitting here trashing Mustangs or Mazda RX7's with shit I would be countering your points.

Exactly huh? WTF are you trying to say?

You state some one pointed ou thte C6 Z06 was "hairy" - uhm - a 993 GT2 is hairy.. the Z06 is anything but hairy.. yet more bullshit propoganda.


WHo gives a flying fuck about the hairdresser automatic Corvette Coupe? I don't - never have - do a search for the 1000's of times I have called the Porsche Coxster, Gaymen abd Corvette Coupe poser hairdresser cars... you will find many times I say just that.

Tell your friend from me he drives a chicks car.

A sports car purchase is - you are either a poser or a driver. Unless you are extremely wealthy then you buy a car for every mood you have - if you only have money for onecar, and you compromise on the chick poofta poser mediocre performer you are a poser not a driver.

WTF are you rambling about now you Kanuky nutjob? Yet more bias...

Driving position? WHat is he a fucking poofta whiner? Suck it up pussy - have you sat in a race car? The driving position is about driving not getting a massage - again, has he ever even driven the car without bias?

What a load of crap... every 911 I have driven felt no better or worse than the Lotuses, Corvettes, Panoz's etc...

The good driver adapts to the carb - the loser complains and whines like a stuck pig... *****squeal****

Man/machine interface? Again - good drivers adapt and drive - posers and whiners complain.

No - I began to feel sorry for you and all the other stupid sheeple that go through life brainwashed by bias... let me guess you are bleeding liberal?

Again - how the fuck do these stupid idiots compare the auto tranny soft suspension poofta hairdresser Coupe Vettes to the Z06?

Its as stupid as them saying "Man this GT3-RS really delivers where the BASE FUCKING MODEL 911 falls short.

No shit Sherlock - it stands to goddamned reason - doesnt' it.

Helllo - Captain Obvious!!!!!

Your point? I can go through a set of rotors ina weekend at the track - and tey cost me $50 a wheel to replace.

Cryo treated they last for 10 - and the car stops as well as the $8000 PCCB shod equivavlent - which might also show stress after a few weekends.

Porsche/Ferrrai brakes are not actually designed to last longer, jjust as all the PCCB owners who switched to the iron rotors after the first costly replacement.

Hehe - again - have you actually spent time comparing interiors that closely?

I bet you think the $160,000 Panoz has a fantastic interior.. don't you?


Not at all - I simply make the distinction between "subjective crap" and the quantitiable measured numbers.

I am still astonished by the capacity for supposedly eductated adults to be so ill informed.

Give my regards to your poser buddy.

Well, if you belt yourself in, then it doesn't matter what shape your seat is ;) - and I have a 5 point harness, so no worries about sliding around.

I didn't bother with a Recaro bucket because I daily drive my car, I have driven Recaro race seat equipped cars on the street - its was a chore even to drive around for fun, I would hate to try live with it on a daily basis.

So yes -t he seats are a compromise.. but that is to be expected. The transmisison is not as slick as the Porsche unit no, but I even found the RUF tranny to be a little vague when shiting real fast but the stock GT3 unit to be better.

But thruthfully, as you spend more time with the car you get used to the nuances.

Let me know when/if you manage to come up with something worthy to respond to.

So thats the answer then - you are just a snivelling Kunuk with a chip on his cold shoulder..

:roll:

BTW - let me know whe you have an actual valid response that isnt riddled with "blah blah Amerikun shit blah blah Yanke fugger. blah blah"...

Not a single point you bring to the table is based on objective measurment - its all subject rancid drivel.

great stuff! thanks!
and a baaaad color on the RS, for any car.. :?
amazing time out of the Z06! :shock: I guess now they only have one challenge to meet.. making the interior look (and I guess "feel" tho i can't say, as i haven't been in one.. :mrgreen: but i'm guessing..) like an 80K car.. and if they can come around to changing those hideous front headlights as well..

At least you admit to not knowing for yourself - but then again, no-one has ever quanitified what an "$80K interior" should be/look/feel like?

I mean anyone who says an Elise or has a "$50,000 interior" as an example is just being Canadian :P

well when you buy a new car.. and you paid 80K for it, (and its not a 900KG of stripped out car) you expect some nice feeling materials.. kind of like in the GT3 Porsches or even the CSL.. and from the looks of it and what people say, thats the only short coming of the Z06.. something you can live with for sure... (and maybe even upgrade yourself..) but non of the less a point to improve.. and i'm 100% sure it will be improved, soon even.. (as they dont have a lot of other things to work on anymore.. like handling etc.. ;) )
anyways.. I live with hope.. ;) and i'm sure the day would come, and the vette will rule other lands as well as America ;)

Been in an F40 interior recently? I doubt the cage in the RS looks luxurious, but I'm glad its there and that may be where the Porsche is really alot better than the Corvette or the F40 for that matter. You can add cages, but its really more collectible if they come factory installed.

Now thats what the Blue Devil needs a serious interor no luxuries no radio just like the F40 and with a cage like the RS.

Hey now.....let's not get picky with us 'A'

you are being the closed minded one, a Town Car's inter. is on par, yet not fully equal to a Audi of the same price range. but to compare a RR to a lincoln you sir are the one on some very heavy drugs.

but you are the one that brought up comparing a RR to a lincoln. I agree that they are in a different class. but name an American luxury car that is in that price range? so you can be default assume that the quality and materials will be different.

I understand perfectly - you on the other hand choose to confuse opulence with luxury.

Just because something costs $400,000 and has 40 stitches to the inch leather work does not make it more luxurious than the $50,000 product with 8 stitches to the inch leather work.

Being in the same league has nothing to do with it.

Any one who claims that if they sat blind folded in a RR and then in a Lincoln Towncar and then in a Bentley then in a Maybach and then in a Cadillac DeVille could tell which was more luxurious by that alone is a liar.

Period.

All 4 cars rear seats are as soft and sofa like as the the other.

I know - I have done this comparison - you cannot tell them apart.

The fact that the Bentley and the Rolls have crystal brandy decanters in the drinks bar or the Maybach has an opera roof is not Luxurious - those are opulent appointments.

If you were to travel from point A to point B in any of those cars you cannot tell the "luxury" apart.

What you clowns are referring to is no the "luxuriousness" it is the opulence of the appointments.

Thats where the $400,000 comes in.

If you sit inside a $40 Million Gulfstreem private Jet with gold trim and $40,000 per seat leather seats (yes thats what they can cost) you really cannot tell the difference form an off-the-shelf $20 Million Gulfstream private jet with simple stainless/chrome trim and $1,000 seats.

But you somehow "feel" more pampered knowing the seats are hand made by nubile marble skinned virgins and cost $40,000 each.

This is the reality - and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

I challenge anyone to meet up with me in Houston for a 'luxury sit off'. I will arrange a number of vehicles and we will settle this crap once and for all.

Of the top of my head I think I can pull off a RR, Bentley, A8 W12, &60iL, S55, a Towncar and a DeVille.

The Maybach may take a little extra effort - but I just want to shut you pompous jackasses down once and for all.

get a clue people - opulence and luxury are 2 different things - one caters to your ego, the other to your body.

The point is you are wrong.

Period.

Feel all you want... the opulance is not what determines luxury.. your ego is troked by the opulance so you THINK the one is more luxurious than the other.

I never saids its only how your arese feels - thats what YOU keep saying.

Let us s-p-e-l-l it out for you and the other ignoramouses....

Lincoln Towncar [league not =] Rolls Royce
Lincoln Towncar [opulance not =] Rolls Royce
Lincoln Towncar [luxury =] Rolls Royce

BTW, how many generations of Rolls Royce have you actually been in?

I suspect not many - if any. Rolls' from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's are really just rolling living room couches.

The extra opulance like bar, curtains, electronic gadgets are pretty much poorly intergrated add-ons.

There is really NOTHING special about a Rolls from the 60's through the 90's.... they just cost a lot and and were hand made with quesitonable quality.

And back to the topic at hand, similar ignorance is being displayed in this thread with regard to the C6 Z06 - even though it freaking matches the razor edged GT3-RS toe to toe.

The bias you people display is no different to racism... you just say and believe what you do because you do. No logical or rational reason.