Should Ferrari back Massa for the championship title?
 

The standings:
Hamilton 70pts, Massa 64pts, Raikkonen 57pts, Kubica 55pts
12 races down, 6 to go

2007 World champion Kimi Raikkonen has been struggling in the last few races scoring only 14 points in four races (Massa only scored 16 points but it could have been different had his engine survived the last 3 laps of Hungary). His last win came in Barcelona back in April. He's had some bad luck including the exhaust problem in Magny-Cours which cost him victory, the pit lane shunt in Montreal and just recently the engine failure in Valencia. Yes, there's only a 7-point gap between the two Ferrari drivers but Massa has outqualified Raikkonen in the last four races. The Finn admits that qualifying has indeed been a problem. Some people are also speculating that Raikkonen no longer has the drive to compete as he has already achieved his goal of becoming world champion.

During the first half of the season, it seemed that Ferrari was certain to take home the championship. But now, the team is just 8 points ahead of McLaren. Lewis Hamilton meanwhile remains on top of the drivers standings and clearly, McLaren are fully backing him for the title. With Raikkonen's unsolved problems, relatively poor results and questioned drive, should Ferrari solely back Massa for the championship title? Massa has been more consistent and faster in qualifying and able to deliver results (except in the wet of course).

They will not admit it, but I think that the team are starting to reconsider who's #1. The next race is at Spa, where Raikkonen has won three consecutive races (2004, 2005 and 2007). If he can win this race, perhaps the balance of power in Ferrari may restore. :?:

The mechanical problems are hitting Ferrari wayyyyy too often

and what makes it funnier that the same engine is in the Rebulls and they seem fine ... hmm .

same engine i doubt the exact same,i really doubt them allowing the red bulls to have as much as the factory team, backing massa as far as having kimi back off spa i dont know but as of the last race with kimis retirment i think that most important thing for them is the constructors then the drivers. i think ferrari is gettin tired of dealing with these inconsistent drivers so i wonder if they will back them after this year

Some of you guys are straight up high.
Kimi is consistent. The only significant error Kimi has made this year was in Monaco - rear ending Sutil in the wet.

Engine failure, Hamilton-pit-lane incident, exhaust bursting out the engine-canopy is just bad luck.
He's due for a run of good luck, and I would definitely not be writing him off for the season.

Hiya,Ferrari have always been very quick to put there drivers down & to put them under presure.
In the case of Kimi Raikkonen.IMO the honeymoon is over..
I dont think Ferrari can tell him what to do or Intimadte him to perform better.
GAMEOVER
In the Case of Massa I think hes already shown us he wants to be word Champion &
if his engine hadnt let go in the Hungarian GP....well it did so hes got all to do.
But hes a team player...last year he supported KIMI at the end of the season..


:thumbup::thumbup:

I imagine that what Torro Rosso have is last years Ferrari engine.

But what RedBull have is a Renault engine..

Yeah, I picked yes, because he seems to be in better form, but, both are consistent. In fact, Raikonnen has rarely actually put a foot wrong. Any driver could have hit the oil spill at Monaco. I still think Massa is in the box seat for the championship with regard to Ferrari, though.

I dont think you can count Raikkonen out until he's out of it - i mean last year he was 17 down with 2 races to go and still won it - so 13 down with 6 left is still possible.

Plus with there engine reliability up in the air, they should keep both drivers going for it until its remedy'd - they wouldnt want to back Massa now and have him incur more engine trouble in say Japan and China when Kimi would be out of it.

Personally i'm a Lewis/McLaren fan but im loving this battle between them all and right now i wouldnt want to back any of them or count any of them out. I've never been Massa's biggest fan over the years but this year, first 2 rounds and GB aside, he's been outstanding.

Bmw is gonna take it in 2009, kubica kubica!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah MATTK your right.
Did you see Massa before the Hungarian GP.
I would say Hes taken the bate with regards to Ferrari & the Media.
On Race day he took off ...
Like 5vz-fe said
mechanical problems are hitting Ferrari wayyyyy too often
Conspiracy or Bad luck...

Im happy to see Hamilton or Massa as world champion so far this year
they seem to be working hard.


(Some people are also speculating that Raikkonen no longer has the drive to compete as he has already achieved his goal of becoming world champion.)

I think its best to ask Raikkonen that question.....

It's tough for Raikkonen to throw in the towel being he is kind of close but to be honest he has been shakey since the beginning of the season it seems as though he isn't comfortable in the car while massa is in a good sync. Either way its hamiltons championship to lose Both haven't been super reliable but Massa seems to be back on his game aside for a bit of engine trouble.

I've been thinking a lot about this recently. Last year it was about this time that Ferrari placed their bets on Raikkonen and put Massa in a supporting role.

This year Raikkonen is not as dominant as was expected. Felipe made terrible mistakes in 3 races but otherwise has generally matched or out-performed Kimi particularly in the last 3 months.

Kimi has done very well at the high speed / low downforce circuits like Canada, France and out-performed Felipe in rained out races. Massa has done well at his fave tracks: Turkey, Bahrain and also improved at driver's circuits like Monaco.

Here's how I think the two Ferrari drivers will perform in the next 6 races:
Spa: Definite advantage Kimi (high speed track)
Monza: Slight advantage Kimi (high speed track)
Singapore: Definite advantage Massa (expect Kimi to suffer in qualifying getting heat into his tires)
Fuji: Slight to large advantage Kimi (will it rain again?)
Shanghai: Slight advantage Kimi if it rains again. Otherwise both drivers have equal chance.
Brazil: Sure win for Massa

Even if it does not rain in the next 6 races, then Kimi has a slight advantage over Felipe. if it rains, Kimi is the man.

Kimi has to win Spa or else Ferrari might lose hope in him and put their resources behind Felipe.

Someone mentioned that Kimi is due to luck.. Im sorry but racing is not about luck.. its about skill.. I like kimi but he just doesnt cut it at ferrari.. Howd he win a championship well that was thanks to FIA's help.. nothing more..

I think your way off the mark here.

^Care to share you own observations?

You don't make any sense.
Give me 3 legitimate reasons why Kimi is 'past it'.

I feel less intelligence after reading some of the posts in this thread :-(


FYI - from F1.com :
Raikkonen: I’m more motivated than ever

With his last race victory dating back to April’s Spanish Grand Prix, it is no surprise that reigning world champion Kimi Raikkonen has been criticised recently for his dwindling results. Raikkonen, however, has dismissed speculation that his motivation is fading and believes his championship hopes are still very much alive.

After retiring from last weekend’s European Grand Prix, Raikkonen saw team mate Felipe Massa overtake him in the standings to go second behind leader Lewis Hamilton. He now trails Massa by seven points and Hamilton by 13. But last season the Finn made up an even greater deficit to clinch the championship at the final race, and he believes there is still plenty of time to salvage his title defence.

“Life would be much easier if you could always win,” the 28 year-old told Ferrari’s official website. “But sometimes it doesn’t seem to go your way. It’s useless to cry over spilled milk: what happened, happened and now we have to look ahead. It’s not over yet. I’ll keep fighting to get the results I want to achieve. One third of the season is still left and it’s enough to fight back. If someone has doubts as far as my motivation is concerned - go ahead. I want to win more than ever!”

As well as enduring a four-month wait for a win, Raikkonen has also come under fire for his poor results in qualifying. He took his last pole position at June’s French Grand Prix and has since qualified no higher than the third, at July’s Silverstone race.

“There has been a lot of talk about my problems in qualifying,” he explained. “But the truth is that in a couple of races - at Hungary and Germany - I made some mistakes and I had to start from the sixth position. At Valencia I missed the third position by a whisker.”

Raikkonen, who will test at Monza later this week, is already working hard preparing for forthcoming Belgian Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps, an event he is looking forward to with relish. “I love the track,” he added. “I'd like to race there all the year round. It's the best of all the tracks and I hope that I'll have a car that works the way I want. I'll give it all to win again.”

Spa-Francorchamps would seem a likely venue for Raikkonen to rediscover his form - he hasn’t lost at the famous circuit since 2002.

Massa has better pace then Kimi. Dont ask me to elaborate this futher... i'm making the same observations as you, if you can't see it, then to bad.

Honestly I don't reallycare if either Massa or Kimi clinch the championship. I would take both over Hamilton. :)

Testing at Monza yesterdays results..28.8.08
fastest
1,N.Heidfeld BMW
2,N.Rosberg Williams
3,H.Kovalainen McLaren,
4,S.Vettle Torro Rosso
5,F.Massa Ferrari
Interview with Ferrari boss Stefan He said,
(We are not ready to support only one driver yet) but
(Kimi is more than happy 2 support Massa if it falls that way) he also said
(He belives Kimi can get it together & said FERRARI needs to give Kimi a car he likes)

I M O the weather will be a big factor

Who wrote/said this? I can't imagine Raikkonen saying anything about spilled milk! :-)

Ferrari hasn't lost hope:
I don't get it. Raikkonen was pretty strong in the earlier rounds of the season. He has had some bad luck but why has he qualified so low in the recent races?

Spa will be a crucial race. Right now, Ferrari will treat both drivers equally, as they should. If Raikkonen doesn't win or if he finishes behind Massa, then I think he might have even bigger problems than qualifying.

29.8.08 monza,Italy F1 Testing

Fastest times were set by

1.L.Hamilton McLaren
2.K.Raikkonen Ferrari
3.G.Fisichella Force India

F1 is loosing my interest. Each event is more like a parade then a race.

(F1 is loosing my interest. Each event is more like a parade then a race.)
Simona.
After Valencia I must agree BUT I also must remind you that next weeks Race
(Belgian GP.spa) is never a parade probaly the most unperdictable Event on the calendar.
Valeancia was the biggest disapointment of the year so far..
I dont want to take anything away from F.Massa s win.
Fair & Square but after a 3 week wait I wanted a Race I could get my teeth into.
AND NOT ANOTHER PARADE..

For some reason all eyes are on Kimi & Ferrari
Well heres the latest from that camp.
yesterday in an interview Ferrari Boss Di Montezemolo (says Raikkonen is a part of Ferrari for 2009 and is as motivated as ever)

Well heres hoping were not in for another repeat season(Im not talkin about Kimi or Ferrari)
but F1 in general.
IMO another tyre manafacturer is an important element in the mix.
I hope we will see different drivers & different teams scoring points.

I hope Williams will bounce back.
Lets hope BMW can keep it up & bring it to the next level.
Honda,Renualt & can Red Bull or Torro Rosso win a Race I hope so
Cause even thou I been followin those red cars since 75,76 season
I want more on track action..

I just want mclaren to win so i can rub it in your face!

^Mate, your support for McLaren is bordering on the obsessive.

I honestly think you have no clue.

No, I think you have no clue. Whilst most people in this thread have posted lucid comments, you've simply made assertions with no justification. You've also said that Red Bull uses Ferrari engines when they use Renault engines.

Bad luck just seems to follow Kimi around.
It seems like everyone has gotten up to pace though in the last few races, you see people like Vetell(or w/e his name is) in Q3, so it's anyones game in my opinion.
I'm rooting for Kimi though, 'cause I'm finnish, but he has to learn how to qualify again, or take one of the setups he used at the beginning of the year, they seemed to work better. Or like they've said on SPEED, they are just rushing with the car's development.

lol, you sound like my grandpa, if you're in Europe and watch MotoGP then you'll problaly know it's already have more poeple watching then F1.


Another point, Kimi is gonna win at Spa if he can get the car to work WITH him, or if it rains, and as someone said before Spa is the most interesting and unpredictable race.

While I don't think Kimi is entirely to blame for the disappointing way his campaign has turned out this year I believe, especially given the win Massa has just been gifted, that it's probably time for Kimi and Ferrari to get behind Massa and beat Hamilton for the driver's championship. Ultimately though both Kimi and Felipe will need to be pressuring Hamilton every race for the rest of the season in the hopes that Hamilton will crumble again and throw it all away like he did last year.

I think that now, realistically, only Massa out of Massa and Raikonnen can win the world championship. Nevertheless, I am not a man to encourage moves like slowing down to let a team-mate pass.

Last option should say "Who cares? FIA will make Ferrari win no matter what"

I am done with locking out my weekend parties to wake up at 7am and have Stewards decide who wins. Suck my B@lls

FIA = FAIL

Massa is definitely in a better position than Raikkonen and will certainly be getting full backing for the championship from Ferrari for the rest of the season unless something very dramatic happens. One thing that is worrying though is that if Raikkonen spends the rest of the season backing off and being Massa's rear gunner that Hamilton will not be under as much pressure as he was last year.

Not much choice left for Ferrari!! They have to back Massa now!

it looks like the fia is backing him why not ferrari and kimi looked good as support after going after the points leader

I think Massa and Hamilton arwe bringing a new flavour to the age old sport! Massa has my vote If Hamilton cant win it i would be happy to see Massa up there!.