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Originally Posted by coombsie66
^^ Um yes its your oppinion, but that doesnt work in a factual debate!!! BAR proved that they obeyed the rules, they proved that at no point during the race were they under the minimum weight limit, which if they had dropped below would constitute 'cheating'.
So as has been stated 'by the articles' they did posses the ability to cheat, but proved that they didnt infact use the ability in the race. Hence why their charge was dropped and they werent thrown out of the championship.
How can you be 100% sure they cheated?!
Damn man dont make sweeping remarks on personal oppinion when its a fact based argument!
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I don't know I why still bother... When I say opinion vs. opinion I mean that I have a different interpretation of the facts than mindgam3. For me, the facts that I'll show next are more than enough to convince me that they cheated - for mindgam3 they're not. It's not like I'm making things up; they did brake the rules. Period. And breaking the rules = cheating.
And here are the facts:
Fact 1: B.A.R. lied to the stewards. This alone is enough for me - again, if they didn't have anything to hide, then why did they lie? And still no one answered this simple question...
Fact 2: Button's car was underweight. See: "The Court said that the only way the car could have met the 600kg requirement was by using fuel as ballast, which is not allowed under Formula One regulations. "
Fact 3: the tank by itself isn't illegal, but hiding its purpose form the F.I.A. is. Plus, if they had any doubts about the rules, then why didn't they aks for a clarification?
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BAR proved that they obeyed the rules, they proved that at no point during the race were they under the minimum weight limit, which if they had dropped below would constitute 'cheating'.
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"It also stated that BAR’s fuel consumption data could not guarantee that the car complied with the rules at all times during the race, hence the team neglected their duty to satisfy the FIA technical delegate of its legality throughout the event."
Whoops...
And it's not like I'd trust B.A.R. after they lied to the stweards...
Other thing: B.A.R. used fuel as a ballast, they insisted that the engine needed a minimum 6Kgs of fuel to run and this was found in the accumulator tank, many teams need to maintain a minimum fuel in the car in order for the engine to run.The difference is that they add the fuel on top of the minimum 600 Kg weight whereas BAR didn't.
And why all the secrecy if they weren't planning on cheating?
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but proved that they didnt infact use the ability in the race.
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It's not proven that they didn't use the the ability, as it's not proven that they
did. It wasn't possible to prove
both things.
Other tought: people say this is a G9 vs. F.I.A. thing, right?
Well, I don't see the other teams supporting B.A.R. As I have never heard from any G9 teams complaining that this case only happened because of the war between FIA and the G9s... In fact, they seem to agree with the F.I.A., so enough with the conspiracy theories.
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...when its a fact based argument!
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And if you're so worried about facts, then please post them, because I don't see any in your post.
And just for the record, B.A.R. was one of my favourite teams (after Ferrari and Mclaren) before this happened, but they disappointed me.