motor

sivsk · 03-22-2006, 01:51 PM

I just wanted to kick this around? this is something that i have been thinking about for some time now, ok BMW have addressed this issue slightly with the E46 CSL, but the statement many throw around in road tests is that they are too soft, or lack in feel or don't have the sharpness.......

I've been a long term believer that the Modern M car has to fulfill an allround task, sporting characteristics, to daily use, long distance travel, and nowadays family car & it does so exceedingly well, however in the quest for market needs are the new M Cars becoming a little soft.....

Point being the M5 has been earmarked as a bit vague in steering maybe because of the Electronic steering as compared in a test with a Ferrari F430.... the M6 in a uk comparison was said to be not that sharp a tool as compared to a 911..... The E46 has taken a knock from the new Audi B7 S4.

Ok i guess what i'm trying to ask is that when a new M is made should there have to be a CSL version? Or should it be a CSL straight out of the box.

Some original classics were out there 2002ti, 3.0csl (batmobile) Classic M1, even the M635csi, each only had 1"M" version. These cars had the image of been raw and a sharp tool E30 included....

The E36 M3, i have one, was deemed to be a bit like a 330CSI the Evolution was brought along to make it a bit sharper, personally i think the E36 is a good car and plenty sharp that debate is in another forum...

The E46 M3 has spawned 3 versions! stock,CS, and CSL

What do you guys think????

dutchmasterflex · 03-22-2006, 02:20 PM

I'm thinking M cars are getting too heavy even though they are trying to keep weight down.. (CF roof on M6, but still a pretty heavy car)

What they really should do is a CSL version of each M car and sell it worldwide god damnit! Why cant the US have a E46 CSL!!!

5vz-fe · 03-22-2006, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex

I'm thinking M cars are getting too heavy even though they are trying to keep weight down.. (CF roof on M6, but still a pretty heavy car)

What they really should do is a CSL version of each M car and sell it worldwide god damnit! Why cant the US have a E46 CSL!!!

What would you rather have, a CSL or a 911?

btw, sivsk, can we still have that prove of ur car please?

sivsk · 03-22-2006, 03:04 PM

5vz-fe sure..... i mean what would you like .... prove meaning.....

gucom · 03-22-2006, 03:11 PM

a custom pic, for instance the car keys on the engine cover, or a sheet of paper saying "JW" somewhere in or on the car... its a rule that you have to provide a custom pic for each car you say you own, to prevent people from saying theyve got 10 ferraris while really all they've got is a pair of worn nike shoes...

sivsk · 03-22-2006, 03:13 PM

oh ok!!!!!
Can i put it in this forum right now..... cos if i can i'll send a pic of a very dusty M3......

nthfinity · 03-22-2006, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by sivsk

5vz-fe sure..... i mean what would you like .... prove meaning.....

open the hood, place the owners manuel on it (or something with costom... like a JW picture, or something) and snap a photo of that; then post it in "what you drive or ride"

on the subject of M vs 911... well, we dont have a 4 door 911 (YET!) but comparing the E46 M3 vs. 996 911 C2... i would prefer the M3... but C4 S... i would take that...

the CSL only loses out to the Turbo S, and GT3 (or GT3 RS) in my mind.

BMW makes the cars to be driven; and the CSL for track day enthusiasts IMO... its just too many compromises to be concidered a livable road car... but it would be brutal fun on a track

sivsk · 03-22-2006, 03:39 PM

Ok nthfinity thanks i understand what to do now...... i'll post it!!!!

As for the BM opinion i agree that is what i think the stock M3 is usable everyday! And yes it is comprimised as it has to cater to allsorts of owners and the occassional or even daily school run....

Mr.Vercetti · 03-22-2006, 04:41 PM

Do you think that the new M5 is "soft"?... That car is the definition of brutality.

sivsk · 03-22-2006, 05:09 PM

Mr.Vercetti i totally agree with you, i think the M5 is an awesome machine, a family saloon packing a V10, 7 speed gearbox, electronic diff.(ok apparently a little bit tempermental) and awesome handling...... however many call it soft, ok i guess it is because the M5 is being compared with very serious machinery, one test put it up against the F430, ok they picked the M5 saying it would destroy the Ferrari cross country, That was Autocar UK. Top Gear reckoned that the ferrari was sharper...... I think a magasine also put it up against the Gallardo..... in one respect it shows the crediibility the cars are given but it is the dig at the end that is the killer... soft, not communicatiive enough... that makes you think should they be more focussed cars..... in my opinion no they are good, but as elsewhere the E30 is well reknowned for it's handling and cross country ability, and not that useful for everyday use......

dutchmasterflex · 03-23-2006, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by 5vz-fe

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex

I'm thinking M cars are getting too heavy even though they are trying to keep weight down.. (CF roof on M6, but still a pretty heavy car)

What they really should do is a CSL version of each M car and sell it worldwide god damnit! Why cant the US have a E46 CSL!!!

What would you rather have, a CSL or a 911?

btw, sivsk, can we still have that prove of ur car please?

If I could import a CSL to the states or buy a 911 Carrera S, I'd pick the CSL hands down..

Now, if it was the GT3.. it would be a much harder choice but I'd still lean towards the CSL because no one has it here.

bmwmpower · 03-23-2006, 02:21 PM

M cars re cars used mostly daily, so they re bit soft,
and weight is also problem, but this is problem worldvide,not just bmw m

Mr.Vercetti · 03-23-2006, 02:35 PM

Sivsk the fact that the M5 is being compared with cars like the Gallardo and the F430 says a lot about it...Not bad for a 4 door sedan eh?

bmwmpower · 03-23-2006, 02:43 PM

autocar verdict on M5:
otherwise it’s such a complete, beguiling car that it might just be the best car in the world.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/RoadTest_Summary.asp?RT=212071

gobs3z · 03-23-2006, 02:48 PM

Technically if you look at cars in general they havn't been getting much faster despite the power increases because they get fatter with the power inceases. A few shows did drag races with the old vs. new deal, and the old had a much better advantage. I'de say the best example of cars getting softer is the Evo. The suspension on the Evo's are much softer than the lets say an Evo 6. So it's not faster than an Evo 9 aroun a track (5th Gear Test).

But for M's, it's those damn seats that are wicked cool with the active side supports that are weighing the car down. BMW has to rely heavily on technology to beat out its previous model. The E60 M5 in 400hp mode will easily to lose to the previous M5 and in 500hp mode it'll be a tie if you don't use launch control and the quickest shift setting. I think when they bring the M5 with a 6 speed manual over here we'll see how the M5 really stands without technology that brings the most out of the car. Come on, the M5 needs an active suspension to do what it does, thats more and more weight. Everyone here can agree that the simplest of cars can be the best to drive like the 2002, or the original Rabbit/GTI. So in final, YES, they are getting soft and fat and aren't even close to drivers car they use to be, everything you feel in a new car is electronically sent to you, not physically. Thats crap!