What you guys think about GM selling off Hummer?

[79TA]

Originally Posted by RC45 There will be a cost, a cost to national security. The Chinese government would purchase many design patents and intellectual property related to many secret military components designed and built by Hummer for the US military. The is a mistake of huge proportions, and even borders on treason to sell Hummer pt the Chinese.

Are you sure? It's not like AM General, the Humvee manufacturer, is on the auction block. I know the H1 is Humvee based, but it seems most of GM's Hummer secrets could be learned simply by dissecting any of their vehicles. The H2 is built on an extended Tahoe Chassis and the H3 is also unrelated to the military. Does Hummer and its H1 really have that much information related to the Humvee?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by 79TA Are you sure? It's not like AM General, the Humvee manufacturer, is on the auction block. I know the H1 is Humvee based, but it seems most of GM's Hummer secrets could be learned simply by dissecting any of their vehicles. The H2 is built on an extended Tahoe Chassis and the H3 is also unrelated to the military. Does Hummer and its H1 really have that much information related to the Humvee?

Why take the chance? Every company (even US and European companies) that do business in China are part Chinese government owned, and part of that deal is to have access to all company data and many times this includes classified data and information.

[MidEngine4Life]

Originally Posted by fordgt84 I would say Jeep is to Americans what Land Rover is to the Brits...

I agree 100%

As for Hummer falling into chinese hands? I think you can kiss the brand goodbye....and that I dont mind. Because after the H1 I thought it was just a joke.......

This is an offroad vehicle

Humvee vs Jeep - YouTube

Humvee vs Jeep - YouTube

YouTube

YouTube

[5vz-fe]

The way the Humvee go thru mud is just unbelievable.....

[Mattk]

The Chinese government would purchase many design patents and intellectual property related to many secret military components designed and built by Hummer for the US military.

The military HMMWV is 1. far more advanced than any of the three GM Hummers and 2. close to superseded technology anyway. Besides, I'm not sure the Chinese rolling out copycat Humvees is really going to threaten world stability.

[Alelanza]

Originally Posted by Mattk The military HMMWV is 1. far more advanced than any of the three GM Hummers and 2. close to superseded technology anyway. Besides, I'm not sure the Chinese rolling out copycat Humvees is really going to threaten world stability.

Exactly

Originally Posted by RC45 and even borders on treason to sell Hummer pt the Chinese.

LOL cmon that's just the paranoia talking, any secrets worth a dime have already been sold and bought thru the 'regular' channels.
If you wanna be afraid of something, think about the army of basketballers and rappers led by the terminator and stiletto wearin Dennis Rodman burnin down cities when they get wind of this.....

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk The military HMMWV is 1. far more advanced than any of the three GM Hummers and 2. close to superseded technology anyway. Besides, I'm not sure the Chinese rolling out copycat Humvees is really going to threaten world stability.

THe company represents far more intellectual property than just that one vehicle you see, and not keeping secrets from enemy governments does threaten world stability.

The coming world economic crisis will prove to all you kumbaja do-gooders that the russians, chinese, north koreans, iranians etc have not and never will be strategically allied to the west.

When squandered allied secrets are used to make weapons and systems that be killing western nations enmasse, perhaps then people will come to understand the reality f the world.

Originally Posted by Alelanza LOL cmon that's just the paranoia talking, any secrets worth a dime have already been sold and bought thru the 'regular' channels. If you wanna be afraid of something, think about the army of basketballers and rappers led by the terminator and stiletto wearin Dennis Rodman burnin down cities when they get wind of this.....

No it is not paranoia speaking, it is experience and common sense.

[HeilSvenska]

Well. Right now, in this situation, common sense tells you that a little paranoia is necessary.

[Alelanza]

Originally Posted by RC45 it is experience and common sense.

Well that's a bit subjective. As in, to me it's common sense that if there are secrets/intellectual property to be bought off, it does not matter whether an american or a chinese person are in charge of whatever Hummer is right now. I doubt the chinese, or anyone for that matter would buy Hummer, but if the chinese go for it, it won't be to acquire technology, they have speedier ways of doing that and have been doing it for years. If they buy it, it will simply be to make a statement: a cultural slap in the face, nothing more.

[Mattk]

THe company represents far more intellectual property than just that one vehicle you see

But they're only selling off the brand. GM doesn't own AM General. All they do is sell the cars, although they do make the H3 which is based on the ho-hum Colorado chassis.

Monstrous long-wheelbase cars like the Hummer are nowadays only profitable in places like the Middle-East (the Emirates in particular), and perhaps Russia to a lesser extent. I don't think a lot of Americans buy Hummers. It's certainly a subject of ridicule in Australia.

In China, GM sells its cars almost exclusively in black, dark blue, white, and silver, and not all cars have all those colours. This is because most Chinese nationals with money are pretty conservative. Many cars are corporately-owned. I don't see Hummer in its current guise having a lot of impact in China and I don't think the sale to Sichuan Automotive Group (rumoured to be in discussions) will go forward. An Emirates-based conglomerate is my bet, but I also feel almost equally that the brand will just go quietly.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk But they're only selling off the brand. GM doesn't own AM General. All they do is sell the cars, although they do make the H3 which is based on the ho-hum Colorado chassis.

I did not say GM owns AM General, bu tconsidering the JOINT produciotn of the H1 required technology and intellectual property sharing, there is a huge chance national security secrets could be leaked.

And I suggest you inform yourself viz-a-viz the "real" off road capability of the H2.

Originally Posted by Mattk Monstrous long-wheelbase cars like the Hummer are nowadays only profitable in places like the Middle-East (the Emirates in particular), and perhaps Russia to a lesser extent. I don't think a lot of Americans buy Hummers. It's certainly a subject of ridicule in Australia.

I don't quite think the aulity/capabilty or viability of any product is based on whether or not it is the subject of ridicule in Australia... do youthink the rest of the world "praises" the stereotypical Autralian Ute?

http://www.amgeneral.com/vehicles/hummer/

Some reading matter to spruce up your Hummer general knowledge

Originally Posted by Mattk In China, GM sells its cars almost exclusively in black, dark blue, white, and silver, and not all cars have all those colours. This is because most Chinese nationals with money are pretty conservative. Many cars are corporately-owned. I don't see Hummer in its current guise having a lot of impact in China and I don't think the sale to Sichuan Automotive Group (rumoured to be in discussions) will go forward. An Emirates-based conglomerate is my bet, but I also feel almost equally that the brand will just go quietly.

Any time these "brands" get sold and relocated, its a stupid decision, because without the supply chain and intellectual assets, the brand is worth nought.

And the idea of a locally based production facility being owned by an enemy government is never a good idea, especially not in this day and age.

And please don't kid yourself, while the average Chinese citizen may have no opinion about the US or the est, the Chinese government views the US and the west and potential enemy hostiles, and have never had any intention of peacefully co-operating on the world stage.

They have simply exploited the naive greed of the liberals in the west.

[Mattk]

I don't quite think the aulity/capabilty or viability of any product is based on whether or not it is the subject of ridicule in Australia...

I never said it was. Regardless of how good it is, people don't seem to be buying them in high numbers. Why else would they sell the brand? Low sales all round is the prime motivator for Rick Wagoner to sell off Hummer and Saab and meanwhile restructure Buick and Pontiac.

Any time these "brands" get sold and relocated, its a stupid decision, because without the supply chain and intellectual assets, the brand is worth nought.

I agree, but the audacity of reality has proved logic wrong, seeing as the Indian Mahindra company was immediately interested the moment Wagoner announced this last year, and GM themselves say they are considering a number of offers. It is clearly worth something to a lot of people, as odd as that seems.

And enemy government or not, China has everything to lose if they start hostilities against America and the West, because they'll have no one left to rip off. If they do attack, China has nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. The fact that they have Hummers isn't going to be the problem.

Even if Sichuan Auto Industry Group gets Hummer, and the Chinese government get all their automotive patents because the have control over major industries, what additional military capabilities will they get? Better vehicles, perhaps. The US military is in the process of phasing out the HMMWV, so there will still be a significant technology gap. Besides, given the lack of respect Chinese producers pay to competition law, I'm sure they've managed to buy a Hummer and clone it. Oh wait, it's happened already via Dongfeng Motors: http://www.chinacartimes.com/2007/05...ket-next-year/. And here's another one (which I actually didn't know about until now): http://harshpaul.instablogs.com/entr...n-china-again/.

In any case, this seems to be much ado about nothing. The chances of a minor Chinese manufacturer in a non-existent Hummer market getting the brand are very slim.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk I never said it was. Regardless of how good it is, people don't seem to be buying them in high numbers. Why else would they sell the brand? Low sales all round is the prime motivator for Rick Wagoner to sell off Hummer and Saab and meanwhile restructure Buick and Pontiac. I agree, but the audacity of reality has proved logic wrong, seeing as the Indian Mahindra company was immediately interested the moment Wagoner announced this last year, and GM themselves say they are considering a number of offers. It is clearly worth something to a lot of people, as odd as that seems. And enemy government or not, China has everything to lose if they start hostilities against America and the West, because they'll have no one left to rip off. If they do attack, China has nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. The fact that they have Hummers isn't going to be the problem. Even if Sichuan Auto Industry Group gets Hummer, and the Chinese government get all their automotive patents because the have control over major industries, what additional military capabilities will they get? Better vehicles, perhaps. The US military is in the process of phasing out the HMMWV, so there will still be a significant technology gap. Besides, given the lack of respect Chinese producers pay to competition law, I'm sure they've managed to buy a Hummer and clone it. Oh wait, it's happened already via Dongfeng Motors: http://www.chinacartimes.com/2007/05...ket-next-year/. And here's another one (which I actually didn't know about until now): http://harshpaul.instablogs.com/entr...n-china-again/. In any case, this seems to be much ado about nothing. The chances of a minor Chinese manufacturer in a non-existent Hummer market getting the brand are very slim.

I think you once again can't see the wood fo rthe trees, and take things too literally.

It is no the Hummer one would be worried about being cloned.. as uhm.. it would be part of the product being sold.

It is the other intellectual property and patents and data that is often compromised when companies are sold/exported and other wise stripped and given to foreign enemy governments.

I have assisted in such projects in the past here in the US, and what happens is that the foreign buyers get to have unfetered access to the company and many times the export of the technology is completely uncontrolled.

In 2000, we were contracted to assist a Texas based subsidiary of Motorola get ready to be sold off, and the actual process was uncontrolled and enormously compromising to the rest of the division, a division directly involved in classified miltary work. But hey, the sale was approved by Clinton in the late 1990's, so everything was ok... it was rediculous, the Chinese "engineers" were required to have access to classified and secure areas we as local contractors were not even allowed in or near.

I would bet that whom ever "buys" Hummer, would miraculously require access to AM General facilities as well, especially with the current regime in power.

[Mattk]

I see what you mean. But, considering AM General's involvement in the Hummer brand consists of making H2s through a contract with GM, there's no reason why any buyer would need to even look at anything related to AM General, who I presume possesses all the classified military stuff and not the Hummer division.

[pitfield]

Someone said Hummer has heritage, pass me the stiching, my sides have split.