Global Warming - is it real? Is it man?

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 places extra burden on companies that are "dirty", but nevertheless, it offers them a way to continue with business. And here comes the common misconception ladies and gentleman.. That is that the burden is placed and borne by the dirty companies. I know its pushed to view corporations as us versus them, but the reality is they are us. They pay taxes, they provide jobs, they invest, they provide money to their stockholders that invest elsewhere... Applying this doesnt just hurt a few 'dirty' companies. It hurts us all.

Sorry, yes I simplied it directly to the companies. But yes correctly interpreted would be that everyone would be involved in one way or another.

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by philip Originally Posted by ae86_16v Philip - Definitely that it was not really front and center 2 years ago. It is good that we are discussing matters like this now. I do not believe that this is a conspriacy from the Communist. In fact, I am one of the biggest proponents of Market theories - capitalism, so I do not quite follow your point there. Communism was not good at providing goods and services to its populations. Capitalism is very good at providing goods and services to its populations. To reduce carbon dioxide emissions, the production of goods and services (consumerism) must be drastically curtailed. Thus the advantages of Capitalism are constrained, making Communism more attractive.

Umm, I think you confusing economics with types of government. Let's put it this way, our economy is not a true capitalistic economy. It has social aspects built into it. Such as role of a Federal government. As citizens we expect the Federal government to provide certain needs and provide certain assistance. Providing emergency relief, national defense, and protection of public goods are roles of Government.

Classical economics states that Public Goods such as Air, needs to be regulated by the government. What if X Company makes a Widget, in the process of making that Widget it damages all the water sources down the river. According to you, that would be okay because they are providing a Good that the market wants.

Yes, the Government has to stop such activities even if it is a Good that we want. Because in the end it is damaging a much more important Public Good such as Air and Water. - Sorry for the typos writing from a Treo right now.

[silentm]

Originally Posted by philip Remember global warming is good, global cooling is bad.

wrong, neither of both are good or bad. it's the balance you want to achieve that hot and cold are equally 'strong'.

but imo i would like to have an ice age more snowboarding for me!

[philip]

Sorry something wierd happened to the post.

[graywolf624]

wrong, neither of both are good or bad. it's the balance you want to achieve that hot and cold are equally 'strong'.

Theres only one problem with that arguement... What is balance? What is average?

That gets to the vary essence of the issues with gw.. We don't know.

[philip]

In case you missed this because your local paper is censoring this sort of information on climate change.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1363818.ece

[philip]

More on the Earth is not warming. In case your interested.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-atd021207.php

[nthfinity]

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...500.xml&coll=7

Younger generation sweats future Global warming - Concerns about the effects of climate change resonate among many Thursday, March 22, 2007 GABRIELLE GLASER Leslie Carlson remembers the 1970s signs for fallout shelters and the school drills that sent kids diving under their desks. In college, worries about nuclear catastrophe kept her up at night. But today Carlson, 42, has global warming anxiety. "I worry about the quality of my children's lives and the connection to nature I love so much," says Carlson, a mother of three and a Portland public relations manager. Just last weekend she was skiing with her children, she says, and surveyed the mountain landscape. "I wondered, 'Are they even going to be able to do this when they grow up?' " Advertisement Every generation has its fears. Before the polio vaccine, parents kept their children indoors on hot summer days -- no swimming pools, no picnics. Then came the Cold War and its fears of sudden annihilation. For the first couple of years after the 9/11 attacks, terrorism dominated the worry agenda. But today, concern over climate change appears to be replacing the ideas of atomic Armageddon or anthrax epidemics. For some families, compost piles have supplanted bomb shelters and duct tape as household essentials. Recent national polls, taken after the release of Al Gore's documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth" and news of droughts, hurricanes and rising sea levels, show that the majority of Americans now see global warming as a serious threat. Westerners are especially gloomy about our chances of coping with the problem, according to a new Yale University survey. How worried are we? No American research documents the magnitude of the problem, although a recent British survey found that one in 10 youngsters loses sleep worrying about climate change. "The news has really been unremittingly bad," says Madeline Levine, an adolescent psychologist in Marin County, Calif., and author of a book on the angst of today's middle-class kids. Increasingly, Levine says, she sees young patients beset by their fears for the planet. "They're worried," Levine says, "and they're angry. They feel that older generations screwed up the Earth and now it's up to them to fix -- but they don't have the skills or ability to do it." Levine estimates that one in three children struggles with anxiety, and that many have fixated on global warming. "Poor polar bears" Page 2 of 2 Regardless of whether they're overly absorbed in how climate change will affect their future, Portland-area children clearly are thinking about the problem. A group of Portland sixth graders, fresh from a school sleepover, said they were particularly upset by the impact of global warming on animals. "When I think of global warming," said Katrina Rapp, a student at Sunnyside Environmental School, "I think of those poor polar bears. It makes me so sad." Her classmate, Julia Mann, echoed her concerns. When she spots lights left on in empty rooms, her mind races to carbon emissions. "It makes me worry about what kind of world will exist for my children," she said, pausing. "Maybe I won't even have them." That question also dogs young adults. Rob McKirdie, a 27-year-old Portland artist, has discussed the issue with his girlfriend. "I do worry about what kind of world we'll have," he says. He sometimes feels anxious when he sees pregnant women. "I wonder," he says, " 'What is that child's future?' " McKirdie's concerns carry over into his daily life. He walks to work, recycles everything he can and carries reusable cloth shopping bags. He's read about a vast vortex of plastic trash -- toothbrushes, water bottles, grocery bags -- in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. And yet at his job -- at an environmentally friendly supermarket -- he dispenses plastic all day long. "I want to ask people, 'Are you sure you need this bag for your one little item?' " Advertisement Talking about dangers Joe Rhinewine, a Lake Oswego psychologist, says Americans have a tendency to overstate the dangers of imponderables. Nobody knows exactly what the future will hold, and parents can help their children by putting threats in perspective. They can, he says, validate their kids' fears while reassuring them. "It's actually invalidating to always reassure by saying, 'It's OK, and stop worrying.' " Rhinewine says. "Excessive reassurance can actually help to reinforce the worry." Better to say, "Yeah, it is scary to think of the planet changing. But it's important to remember that it has changed a lot in the past," Rhinewine says. "When I feel scared, I remind myself that there are lots of steps we can take to make things better, like recycling and driving less." Engaging children in solutions, he says, can help them gain a sense of control. "Kids under the age of 12 lack the cognitive skills to distance themselves. In a well-intentioned effort to motivate kids, you might show them a picture of some polar bears drowning. It's an accurate picture, and it may well be because of global warming, but it's a little like using a sledgehammer when you can use a hammer. A sensitive child is going to think, 'Oh, no, that polar bear is dying, and it's all my fault!' " Carlson, the Portland public relations manager, uses the news to teach her three young children on their terms. "Worrying about nuclear war was the overriding fear of our generation," she says. "Were the U.S. and the Soviet Union going to do each other in? In the end, it didn't happen, but that wasn't to say it wasn't real." "A huge challenge" Global warming, she adds, "is a huge challenge we're going to have to face. And if fear inspires you to change your life and the lives of others, maybe that's not all so bad." Carlson bikes to work, restricts her buying and walks to the supermarket with her children. Others are taking similarly practical approaches to their anxieties -- and those they anticipate from their children. Renee Limon and Heather Reeves Hawkins, neighbors and friends in Southwest Portland, are taking an eight-session master recycling class. They've also launched a blog -- www.enviromom.com -- that gives tips on ways to raise "green" children. Earlier this month, they gathered a group of like-minded young mothers at the Southwest Community Center as their kids played. The group of six talked about everything from endocrine disrupters in plastic to worm bins and compact fluorescent light bulbs. "We're not here to judge," says Limon. "We're saying, 'We're all learning. We're all taking baby steps.' You can put your head in the sand and do nothing, or you can do something with your kids to make positive changes for the future." Gabrielle Glaser: 503-221-8271; [email protected]

[Pokiou]

Man this global warming is BULLSHIT... and if Porsche start making GREEN cars.. then i'm gonna stock up on the OLD 1970's Porsche with no catalytic converters and drive around all the hippie villages and run over there cows :/

Pok

[graywolf624]

Younger generation sweats future

Talk about brain washing.. man.