Autozeitung: Porsche 997 GT3 RS vs Corvette Z06

[tforth]

tforth wrote: Quote: find me a 911 GT3 that drives year round in a geographic location like Michigan, canada, norway etc. You mean that you haven't seen this one racing sideways through the snow covered track in Scandanavia? http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...porsche=1.html /country/gcf And what is to prevent any other RWD sports car from doing the same?

Has a corvette ever won Paris-Dakar? You, clearly have no clue when it comes to the capabilities and acomplishments of the 911.

tforth wrote: Regarding the ongoing debate of which is a faster/better sports car for the money, wasn't the Viper GTS faster than the C5 Z06? No it wasn't - and even if it was, it was $25,000 more expensive and has less usable storage space and uses way more gas.

Huh? You really think we're all that stupid? I don't have any readily available data, but I'm pretty sure that on the same strip and with the same driver the GTS would do 12.4s, whereas the C5 Z06 would do 12.7s. Of course these times are for unmodified cars.

tforth wrote: Then again, I would assume that Vipers hold their value much better than C5 vettes, so although they did cost more new, there is probably a much bigger price gap between them now... Wrong 2001 Z06 58% value retention 2001 Viper GTS 57% value retention Try again.

You're truly unbelievable! This is the same thread, where after I had provided the evo lap times, showing that the C6 Z06 posted the 14th fastest time at Bedford, someone said that any time within 3s/lap can be considered an equivalent time...

Now, you're trying to make an argument that the depreciation rate is within 1%?? Please, provide your source, so it can be verified. This sounds like the argument kids have, where they say: "Oh yeah, my dad is 120 years old, so he can beat your dad up...

Quote: But man, did they ever look better! Subjective - both cars look great.

The GTS is a unique car. The C5 Z06 looks just like the gold chain gang's standard C5!

[twboy1999]

[RC45]

Originally Posted by tforth Originally Posted by tforth Then again, I would assume that Vipers hold their value much better than C5 vettes, so although they did cost more new, there is probably a much bigger price gap between them now... Originally Posted by RC45 Wrong 2001 Z06 58% value retention 2001 Viper GTS 57% value retention Try again. You're truly unbelievable! This is the same thread, where after I had provided the evo lap times, showing that the C6 Z06 posted the 14th fastest time at Bedford, someone said that any time within 3s/lap can be considered an equivalent time... Now, you're trying to make an argument that the depreciation rate is within 1%?? Please, provide your source, so it can be verified. This sounds like the argument kids have, where they say: "Oh yeah, my dad is 120 years old, so he can beat your dad up...

How about YOU prove that the 2001 Viper has a lower depreciation rate than the 2001 C5 Z06.

Because Kelley Blue Book, NADA and any other verifiable Industry Source Agrees with me.

You see - I do actually know what I am speaking about.

DO you really want me to embarress you by posting the actual links to NADA, Kelley Blue Book, White Book, Black Book etc source that show I am correct - and you are incorrect?

Originally Posted by tforth Originally Posted by tforth But man, did they ever look better! Subjective - both cars look great. The GTS is a unique car. The C5 Z06 looks just like the gold chain gang's standard C5!

Again - you are simply demonstrating youlack of knowledge.

Considering the C5 Coupe has a large glass hatch, and the C5 Z06 has the very same profile as Convertible with Hardtiop and an actual trunk - the car is quite distinct.

But seeing as you just posted the "gold chain gang" argument you have obviously lost and are simply resorting to throwing typical ignorant biases around - further proving you have no real automotive knowledge.

Nice try though - really nice try.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo If you really meant sports car why did you even discuss the RS4 and wanted more info on price and specs before....two pages later in this thread suddensly decided the RS4 was a sedan and the Z06 where in a different class so they shouldnt be compared...ROFLMAO....

You suggested the RS4 - no one esle.

The RS4 costs more, goes slower and is a sedan. Remind me again why anyone with a sportscar should give a fuck about your or any other Audi?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by brembo If you really meant sports car why did you even discuss the RS4 and wanted more info on price and specs before....two pages later in this thread suddensly decided the RS4 was a sedan and the Z06 where in a different class so they shouldnt be compared...ROFLMAO.... You suggested the RS4 - no one esle. The RS4 costs more, goes slower and is a sedan. Remind me again why anyone with a sportscar should give a fuck about your or any other Audi? Yes I suggested the RS4 as it got great performance not quite on par with the Z06 at least not in the dry that is, it are a hell of alot more practical than the Z06, it is better quallity than the Z06 and it cost less than the Z06 $66k for the Audi and $70k for the Z06.... so its not more expensive. You asked for a car that could beat the Z06 and as an overall package it does in my opinion, but then you suddenly decided they where in different classes so they shouldnt be compared...LOL.. Hell you gave the criteria and picked the only things the Z06 shine at, then two pages later you decide you dont want to play the game anymore and say they cant be compared....you look more and more pathetic as this goes on RC... LOL at the Audi comment, do you really think that would get me going I am not the one of you and me who scream "look at my car" all the time...hell I havnt even made a post in the what do you drive or ride section about my car.... And I didnt even mention my car in this discussion so why on earth are you dragging my car into it, I never compared it to the Z06 why should I its 12 years older.....

A single car.

A single sports car.

A single sports car that goes, stops and turns within certain specs - the bonuses are price, low gas usage, extra usable space and cheap repairs and maintenance.

Sadly you have no concept of what that means.

Don't get all bitter because the facts lay as they do.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo I am not bitter at all Paul, I am laughing like awhole lot of other people here on JW...

You are bitter and angry and predictable.

Had I been talkign about a Porsche or Ferrari youwould have been sucking my dick in praise.. but because it is an American car, a Corvette no less you are being the arsehole you are - period.

Any car purchase is an emotional and subjective decision.

One person likes Audi over BMW - yet another likes Porsche over Ferrari and yet another likes Chevrolet over Ford etc etc.

Even when those decisions can be logically opposed.

For you - the logical facts that the "best sports car bargain" - and in english "bargain" means cheapest price - so for you , the logical facts that the Z06 of the last 2 generation is the best bargain - in otherwords no other car goes faster, stops quicker or turns harder for less money is unacceptable and unbelievable to you.

Had the Porsche GT3 cost less than the Z06 you would have no problem accepting this logical and fact based statement - why? Because you like the GT3 - you despise the Z06 ehnce your stupid actions for the last week.

You dont have to like the cra for the facts to be the facts.

Period.

In fact - almost everyone on this forum hates American cars with a passion and this extends to the Z06 - so fucking what?

This hate doesnt change the facts - you cannot buy a cheaper car that turns harder, goes faster or stops quicker.

As a bonus it uses less gas, has more usable space and cheap to insure and repair.

These are facts you cannot change brembo.. you cannot - you dont have to like it - but you can't change them.

Does this make the Z06 the best car int he world? No -- it simply makes it the best sportscar bargain

Argue all you want - you will never change the facts.

It was never said to be more reliable, fancier, prettier, better built or any other subjective thing... simply the best bargain - as int he cheapest for what it does.

ARgue all you want - keep going - I have all year - but until a car comes long with a lower price, higher speed, harder turning ability and shorter stopping distance, uses less gas and has more interior room it will always be:

The best sportscar bargain around

Will everyone like it? No. Does everyone have to worry about "cheap price"? - No. DO some people prefer to have a fancy dicksucker on the dashboard even if it slows the car down and costs more? - sure..

Does that change the facts?

No.

brembo - you and your clique the only prick around that is trying to turn this around.

For once in your life try debate a fact.

[mevistox5]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by RC45 A single car. A single sports car. A single sports car that goes, stops and turns within certain specs - the bonuses are price, low gas usage, extra usable space and cheap repairs and maintenance. Sadly you have no concept of what that means. Don't get all bitter because the facts lay as they do. I named a single car.

Don't want to stir up things, but what happend to the criteria low gas usage?? The Corvette isn't that famous as an economy box (neither is the Porsche btw)

Nico

ps. I'm british car guy, so.........

[RC45]

Originally Posted by mevistox5 Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by RC45 A single car. A single sports car. A single sports car that goes, stops and turns within certain specs - the bonuses are price, low gas usage, extra usable space and cheap repairs and maintenance. Sadly you have no concept of what that means. Don't get all bitter because the facts lay as they do. I named a single car. Don't want to stir up things, but what happend to the criteria low gas usage?? The Corvette isn't that famous as an economy box (neither is the Porsche btw) Nico ps. I'm british car guy, so.........

No stirring up - but many refuse to believe that the over drive 6th gear pf the C5 and C6 generations does allow the car to post really amazing fule figures.

Freeway driving regularly returns 25mpg average usage, and the "skip shift" feature that has a shift gate lock out that guides you from 1st to 4th during low rpm slow speed city driving returns an urban fuel cycle usage of about 18mpg.

The Corvette is one of the few sports cars in the US that does nto get assessed a gas guzzker tax because of this.



And welcome to the fray

[mevistox5]

Well I can believe that.... I know that the 1st generation Vipers were equipped with a 6 speed only to pass economy criteria......

How do you feel it compares to the Viper?? In GT racing the Corvette is having a hard them against these cars.

Nico

[mevistox5]

Originally Posted by RC45 Does this make the Z06 the best car int he world? No -- it simply makes it the best sportscar bargain For once in your life try debate a fact.

Some of the problem (beside male hormons) is that we live in different parts of the world. The corvette and the Viper are ' bargains' in the US over here they cost a fortune. The new Corvette will cost you about 100.000 euro's, that's 130.000 US dollars. The Porsches in Germany again are very cheap........

I sometime wish I lived in the UK. If I look through the classified I get very sad. So many great cars (Ultima's, TVR, Marcos, AM, Nissan Skylines etc.) at a bargain price. There even cheaper sometimes that a new Ford Mondeo.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by mevistox5 Well I can believe that.... I know that the 1st generation Vipers were equipped with a 6 speed only to pass economy criteria...... How do you feel it compares to the Viper?? In GT racing the Corvette is having a hard them against these cars. Nico

Generation for generation the Viper and Corvette have battled it out.. and it wasn't untilthe Z06 arrived that the C5 Corvette could really take on the Viper.

That duty was left to the ZR1 for the C4 generation.

From day q it has always takne a skilled driver to extract the real potential from the Viper... they would always rewards the "mash the gas" drivers with a quick trip into the nearest ditch

Peformance wise they are a great match for the Z06 of each generation, with the Vipers extra weight being overcome by always having a little more power than the Z06 - until the C6 Z06 - which is why the next genViper is getting 600hp... they need it.

Daily use - no doubt the Z06 is easier to live with, but that gap was closed noticeably with the SRT/10 (first roadster and now coupe) - the new gen is a lot more livable, but will still burn the leg of the unattentive - and contort the body of the really tall.

In racing of course its a different ball game - and cost and comfort no longer count - the C5 Z)6 dominated SCCA racinhg in the USA with all the AutoX,T1 and T2, and SPeedGT wins they could muster - but the SRT/10 Coupe really put the kibash on the C5 Z06 reign with many privateer teams switching to the 500hp Viper.

There are still some Z06 loyalists but it is getting tougher which is good - more competition.

The C5R dominated GT for 6 years, so it was not surprising that the SRT/10 would take up where the GTS could no longer compete.

But the C6R is holding its own. What is really needed is for Ford to have a decently competativecar to enter so it can be a Blue Oval, Bow Tie, Mopar 3 way batle like it was 35 years ago

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by mevistox5 Originally Posted by RC45 Does this make the Z06 the best car int he world? No -- it simply makes it the best sportscar bargain For once in your life try debate a fact. Some of the problem (beside male hormons) is that we live in different parts of the world. The corvette and the Viper are ' bargains' in the US over here they cost a fortune. The new Corvette will cost you about 100.000 euro's, that's 130.000 US dollars. The Porsches in Germany again are very cheap........ Well I have tried to say this for a long time but as RC arent capable of looking beyond Texas he are stuck.... I havnt checked prices up but there are good chances a competetive Porsche would be cheaper here than the Z06....

Actually - think about it.

What are the performance competitiors to the Z0r?

The 911 Turbo/GT3, the F360/F430, The Viper GTS/SRT/10, the Gallardo etc... all cars that are already expensive in Europe.

SO here is the task:

Name the European car that is cheaper than the C6 Z06 in europe that meets the sportscar criteria:

The car must be faster in a straight line, turn harder, stop quicker, use less gas hold more luggage and cost less.

I think you will face the same answer.

What ever you choose will either cost more or fail on the "daily use" test.

Here s your chance to prove me wrong. Name the European sports car that meets the criteria.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo But as you said its the best car, and after you changed it to sports car as even you saw it was not the best car across the board..

I have never ever ever ever claimed the Z06 to be the "best car int he world" ever.

Please - why would I be so fucking stupid?

I see and admire and look and touch a huge number of some of the best cars in the world - so why would I say that?

I have only ever claimed the Z06 to be the best high performance/sports car bargain. Thats all I ahve ever said ecer.

Search any thread on any forum on the entire intardweb.. why would I say anythign else?

Please stop trying to put words into my mouth - that is the most insulting part of this exchange - that you are trying so hard to make it seem like I am saying something I am not.

never have - and never will.

For fucks sake dude - not only have I lived with the Z06 for 70,000 miles - I have spent enough time in and around so many super cars I knwo exactly what the Z)6 is (the cheapest hotrod around) and what it is not (the best car around).

Peace out - now stop trying to make me out to be some hillbilly hick with a Chevy tattoo on my back.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo and if we also put snow into the equation the Z06 would be left for dead on avarage.....

And the F430 or Viper or F360 or GT3 wouldn't?

Christ brembo - why do you insist on being a prick about this whooe debate?

SPORTS CAR

Fuckit dude.

Originally Posted by brembo when we take other things than performance into consideration the RS4 does most of them better than the Z06.... The RS4 are still cheaper than the Z06.....

When shopping for a SPORTS CAR the other things you are talking about are not of note -- do you not get this concept?

SPORTS CAR

Originally Posted by brembo If you just had posted about the Z06 and left it at that not trying to convince the world that the Z06 are the best thing since sliced bread more people would have liked the Z06...

For fucks sakes man.. why do youinsist on being the prick you are.

gain

for the stupid THE Z06 IS NOT--- NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT - THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD

I have only ever said it is the BEST SPORTS CAR BARGAIN - THATS IT - NO MORE - NO LESS

Seriously - you are relly being a prick about this entire thing.

Still trying to put words into my mouth.

You really are being an areshole - no debating that fact.

:roll:

BTW - you still haven't admitted to the facts that even in Europe you cannot buy a faster sports car for less money.

[TopGearNL]

RC is right. I don't know what it is with the others, but you can either not read or a too stupid to understand.. :roll: