Blu-Ray vs HD DVD

[ae86_16v]

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...._Reality/1096

. . . I'm not suggesting that viewers should relax their standards or accept substandard quality as "good enough" when it's really not, but the technical specs alone simply do not tell the whole story, and over-emphasizing them is a matter of misplaced priorities. We should judge these discs by the actual quality they deliver, not by misleading statistics like the bit rate or the specs listing on the packaging. Surely, that can't be too much to ask.

[nthfinity]

bah

all bullocks.

That is why I've got my HDDVD player right now that Halo 3 has come out, and will have my bluRay player when GT5 comes out!



I mean.... that is what we're all going to do anyway, right?

[666fast]

1. Yay, more wasted space. Movies and games will never fill up a disc with 100GB+ of space.

2. I don't care how sound the new DRM is, I don't want it there period. All it really does is stifle the end user.

3. $600 for the burner and about $30 for each BD50, what will the 100 or 200Gb discs cost? Oh wait, it's a shit ton cheaper for me to buy more storage. None of this will matter to anyone until it's cheap. Which isn't going to happen soon. I don't think HD DVD is at a disadvantage by not having a writer out. I don't imagine that a lot of people have bought a BR writer.

4. TDK sure is supportive of BR Association. Which isn't surprising, with them being one of it's founders.
The only way a game will fill up a BR disc is if the developers are lazy or dumb. There are plenty of developers that have already stated that the extra space on a BR disc is being used to speed up load times to get around bottlenecks in the hardware. Assuming that somehow a entire BD50 is actually filled up by a game, does that mean PS3 owners will have to suffer through enormous load times? I sure hope not.

5. Bit rates mean nothing, the article ae86 posted points that out. Plus, comparing reviews between formats in that way is a bit flawed. Average scores of movies by different authors with different equipment. Even then, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people would not be able to tell the difference of one codec versus another.
Uncompressed audio, again, read ae86's link. It doesn't matter. It sounds fantastic with DD+ to me. Even then, how many people calibrate their EQ's properly? How many people even realize they have, or even know what an EQ is? The magical uncompressed audio won't matter one single bit unless you are using AAA grade equipment thats been setup properly. Did you setup your speakers correctly, or did you just push them around until it sounded right to you?

6. I don't know what 1.1 is, I probably don't really care either.

7. Hard coating. Do you plan on using your movies as drink coasters or something? I for one like to take care of my stuff.

The problem with running around quoting specs like this, other than whats pointed out in ae86's article, is that it wreaks of fanboyish behavior. I find it funny when people feel the need to justify their purchase by making snide remarks about the opposition. I could care less which format is technically superior, I like most people, don't have the necessary equipment to utilize either format to it's fullest extent.

Making a purchase based on arbitrary numbers like this is foolish IMO. At the end of the day, what matters is whether or not the format you choose offers what the movies you want, not which offers a better, yet to most undetectable, audio stream or video compression method.
All that matters to me is being able to watch the movies I want in high def. Which means owning both formats.

[ae86_16v]

^ Well said Nth and 666Fast.

Which is what I've been advocating as well. Which is why I own a Toshiba A2 and a PS3.

At this point, I think it has gotten to where neither companies can afford to "lose" this war, what's gonna happen? Probably hybrid format players will prevail.

I know at the beginning I was hoping that HD DVD would win out because of the cheaper hardware, but now either way Sony isn't going to give up. Nor would there by any compromises.

So I am gonna hope that Samsung and LG can start making more of those hybrid players and hopefully drive the price down.

[666fast]

Originally Posted by ae86_16v I know at the beginning I was hoping that HD DVD would win out because of the cheaper hardware, but now either way Sony isn't going to give up. Nor would there by any compromises.

Sony has almost literally bet the farm on the PS3 and Blue Ray, I wouldn't expect them to give up anytime soon. I wouldn't expect HD DVD to give up anytime soon either.
The only reason i bought my HD DVD player was because it was on sale. I won't be too upset about losing $130 if HD DVD goes bust. The PS3 is a blue ray player by default, so if that goes bust, it'll still have games. There really isn't much to lose.


A friend of mine installs high end home theaters and has openly discouraged buying either format. He believes that the industry will move on to streaming HD content before either becomes the standard.

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by 666fast Originally Posted by ae86_16v I know at the beginning I was hoping that HD DVD would win out because of the cheaper hardware, but now either way Sony isn't going to give up. Nor would there by any compromises. Sony has almost literally bet the farm on the PS3 and Blue Ray, I wouldn't expect them to give up anytime soon. I wouldn't expect HD DVD to give up anytime soon either. The only reason i bought my HD DVD player was because it was on sale. I won't be too upset about losing $130 if HD DVD goes bust. The PS3 is a blue ray player by default, so if that goes bust, it'll still have games. There really isn't much to lose. A friend of mine installs high end home theaters and has openly discouraged buying either format. He believes that the industry will move on to streaming HD content before either becomes the standard.

Agreed. I picked up mine for $175 after coupons and such. I figure it is still an excellent upscaling player .

Yeah, Sony did bet the farm on it. They are hurting like crazy, and bleeding red ink. But they are doing really well with their Bravia LCD line.

And the sales show neither are taking a hold of the market. Transformers is the best opening of any HD format with 190,000 sold in the first week, but compared to DVDs which sold over 8.4 million, so the numbers sale right now are a non-factor.

[Bizi Jones]

Originally Posted by ae86_16v We should judge these discs by the actual quality they deliver, not by misleading statistics like the bit rate or the specs listing on the packaging. Surely, that can't be too much to ask.

ok...so what was that thing that I posted...oh yah, rankings from sites that list their reviews of bd vs hd...and what was the outcomes...bd > hd...

1. Yay, more wasted space. Movies and games will never fill up a disc with 100GB+ of space.

what makes u so sure...what about a 1 disc for the LOTR trilogy...as an example...currently 30gb will not be enough for the entire movie (unless compressed like hell)

2. I don't care how sound the new DRM is, I don't want it there period. All it really does is stifle the end user.

Maybe you don't but you aren't the one who's releasing movies are u...thought so, and when Studios scream that they're losing tonnes of money of piracy they're bound to pick a format that'll ensure protection against it...

3. $600 for the burner and about $30 for each BD50, what will the 100 or 200Gb discs cost?

patience, the format is in its infancy...dvd burners were n diff, yet for some reason u can't seem to c 2 sec down the road...give it time...jeez

4. TDK sure is supportive of BR Association. Which isn't surprising, with them being one of it's founders.

why not read the article...it says Y!!! they chose to pick bd in the 1st place

The only way a game will fill up a BR disc is if the developers are lazy or dumb. There are plenty of developers that have already stated that the extra space on a BR disc is being used to speed up load times to get around bottlenecks in the hardware.

again did u not read what I said...no I thought not...next gen games WILL need more space...and yes as it currently stands, dvd9 are sufficient (remember future proof....cd - dvd - bd?)

Assuming that somehow a entire BD50 is actually filled up by a game, does that mean PS3 owners will have to suffer through enormous load times? I sure hope not.

hearsay...u don't know that...and spilling out your opinion doesn't make it fact...or does it?

5. Bit rates mean nothing, the article ae86 posted points that out. Plus, comparing reviews between formats in that way is a bit flawed. Average scores of movies by different authors with different equipment.

I give u bit rates u call them meaningless, I give u ratings stats (all favoring bd) - they're flawed...not much else I can do to convince you that reviewers, hdm owners say bd vid quality is better...

Even then, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people would not be able to tell the difference of one codec versus another.

maybe not...but then y has BD won every week in sales against HD...even when supposedly Transformers sold 190k...(quote all of the above )

The magical uncompressed audio won't matter one single bit unless you are using AAA grade equipment thats been setup properly. Did you setup your speakers correctly, or did you just push them around until it sounded right to you?

- read future proof!!! (did u always have a htib...no...so then when u decided to upgrade it in a couple of years and realize its pointless cause hddvd won't utilize any of it...I remeber watching SW on a 27" box in VHS...+ can't u understand those pts were meant to highlight BD's future proof aspects)

6. I don't know what 1.1 is, I probably don't really care either.

plz read...Picture in Picture, full Java capabilities (mainly used for extras)

7. Hard coating. Do you plan on using your movies as drink coasters or something? I for one like to take care of my stuff.

Did u know movies are watched by families...oh and did u also know that kids can be 'less' careful when handling fragile objects...

The problem with running around quoting specs like this, other than whats pointed out in ae86's article, is that it wreaks of fanboyish behavior. I find it funny when people feel the need to justify their purchase by making snide remarks about the opposition.

- Snide remarks lol...specs provide tangible evidence of ranking one thing to another with out it turning into 'well mine is prettier(sp?) than yours'...then on top of that I also give u ratings from different sources...I don't really see where u get fanboyism from that ':roll:'

I could care less which format is technically superior, I like most people, don't have the necessary equipment to utilize either format to it's fullest extent.

man.......future proof....when u do get the equipment, are u going to re buy all of your movies again...

Making a purchase based on arbitrary numbers like this is foolish IMO. At the end of the day, what matters is whether or not the format you choose offers what the movies you want, not which offers a better, yet to most undetectable, audio stream or video compression method. All that matters to me is being able to watch the movies I want in high def. Which means owning both formats.

What do u suggest ppl do when making a purchase...look at the facts...Blu-Ray movies have sold better EVERY SINGLE week this year...on an avg of 2:1....this is the formats 1st full year....

when buying a tv or any type of CE, you ALWAYS look at the specs...then you try it out...I wouldn't call that foolish

Finally I do agree that this format war is bullshit, but then the BDA didn't start it...it was always going to be the next optical format...and if MS didn't try to force its proprietary HDi down the BDA throat then there would be no war...(I've posted many articles here about this)...

as for owning both formats...well, u're welcome to it, but both formats will not coexist...retailers will eventually drop one (and by the looks of things its going to be soon, Q4 will be a deciding factor for many)...and then u'll be stuck with your tin can Toshiba (A2 doesn't even do 1080p), and all those hddvd exclusives will release on bd, and u'll be forced to double dip, again...

In conclusion, the original 7pts were meant to outline Blu-rays future proof assets rather than the outline of which one to buy...

have fun reading all that...

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by Bizi Jones as for owning both formats...well, u're welcome to it, but both formats will not coexist...retailers will eventually drop one (and by the looks of things its going to be soon, Q4 will be a deciding factor for many)...and then u'll be stuck with your tin can Toshiba (A2 doesn't even do 1080p), and all those hddvd exclusives will release on bd, and u'll be forced to double dip, again... In conclusion, the original 7pts were meant to outline Blu-rays future proof assets rather than the outline of which one to buy... have fun reading all that...

I am bet that Q4 will not deliver the victory to BluRay.

And second, A2 deliveries great pictures on my 720p Aquos.

[Bizi Jones]

Originally Posted by 666fast Sony has almost literally bet the farm on the PS3 and Blue Ray, I wouldn't expect them to give up anytime soon. I wouldn't expect HD DVD to give up anytime soon either.

common misconception...Sony does NOT own Blu-Ray, it's doesn't even own the most patents for it...(Panasonic)...and yes Sony has bet on Blu-Ray (however not the farm as you all seem to think ':roll:')

Toshiba still gets major royalties from dvd...and as the predominant supported of hddvd, will strive to prolong the war as long as possible...because doing so will stall the move to hdm and keep its dvd royalties flowing...

They are hurting like crazy, and bleeding red ink. But they are doing really well with their Bravia LCD line.

the only thing Sony is not making money on is ps3 (that margin keeps coming down)...everything else is sold at a profit (BDA has a business strategy ...not just throwing money at the problem and giving away players)
Toshiba is also losing money on hardware...hence no other CE manufacturer makes a player...so both are bleeding red

and last time I checked the BBB rating for Toshiba NA is an F

[ae86_16v]

^ Keep in mind, that is quarterly profits. . . let's hope they won't get hit again w/ battery recalls.

[ae86_16v]

As far as I am concern. . . they can keep giving them away.

Toshiba A3 on Black Friday @ $169.99:

http://www.black-friday.net/ad/sears-black-friday.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929855

[Bizi Jones]

what about the software?...still 39.99 mrsp ... if that was close to dvds...like 5-10 bucks a pop, THEN I world consider it...but for now dl's are sufficient...and bds here ad there....

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by Bizi Jones future proof of bd... . . . 2. bd+, unlike aacs will/is providing sound drm, and can be updated unlike the broken key for aacs...(remember bd+ is been out for a month hasn't been broken, unlike transformers ) . . .

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30...rs-fall-quiet/

Originally Posted by Engadget HD We haven't broken down the minutes and seconds or anything, but we're fairly certain that July 10th wasn't exactly ten years ago. Nevertheless, the so-called "impenetrable" BD+ DRM scheme has reportedly already been subverted, and it's no shock to hear that the folks behind SlySoft had a hand in it. Regrettably, there's not a lot of details beyond that just yet, but according to the outfit's CEO, the software is ready to rock and should be released before the end of 2007. Chalk (yet another) one up to the hackers.

But Uh-Oh for HD DVD:

Originally Posted by Engadget Don't etch this one in stone just yet, but for those keeping a close eye on studios and which camp(s) they support, here's the latest. Reportedly, a so-called Blu-ray Festival has been raging in Hollywood, and aside from BD backers showing up in support of upcoming / existing films, there have also been a few interesting remarks uttered along the way. Most notably, Dan Silverberg, VP of high-definition media for Warner Home Video, stated that "one thing that may be changing is [Warner's] strategy," and he continued by proclaiming that hardware prices had reached a point where consumers "no longer wanted to decide" which format reigned supreme. The speech actually got interesting when he mentioned that the "notion of staying in two formats for the duration is something the company was re-evaluating." Beyond that, egos were simply inflated even more as recent BD vs. HD DVD sales figures were trumpeted about, but we think the aforementioned commentary is far more interesting that hearing about numbers we're already familiar with.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-wa...ity-316664.php
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30...y-exclusively/

[Bizi Jones]

Well I never doubted that it would eventually get broken (not yet tho)...but what you have to calculate is, is it worth it to go through all that just for one title, remember it still won't work in a bd player, cause as soon as its broken, they'll change up the bd+ scheme and they'll have to break it again...the point of bd+ is more to do with deterring the casual hacker from pirating bds rather than stopping hacking...like anything else return vs investment has to be greater...and i think with bd+ its not...job done

[ae86_16v]

More on BD+

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-wa...end-316852.php

Originally Posted by Gizmodo Slysoft, the makers of AnyDVD, CloneDVD, and many other disc-copying software apps, have just cracked the Blu-ray BD+ copy protection. This means, if Slysoft's predictions are correct, a commercially-purchasable suite to copy Blu-ray movies will be available by the end of the year. However, Blu-ray blanks—especially dual-layer ones—are still so costly right now ($40+ for a writable) that it's not financially feasible for people to be duping their own movies. You know, unless you really enjoy the blank disc look over the professionally done Blu-ray disc with the proper case and materials. Weirdo. [Golem via Inquirer]