Green don't has to be boring

[pagani]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by gangajas Ethanol makes more power Ethonol takes more fuel to make the same power... so when making "more" power, you are consuming far more gallons per mile driven.

Yes it will use more fuel on converted gasonlineengine but it could be diffrent on engine that is made for bio etanol.
It's a renewable fuel
8)

[RC45]

Originally Posted by pagani It's a renewable fuel 8)

Its a pity the rainforests the Brazillians are chopping down at a rate of a 1000 acres a week to plant cane for Europes ethenol needs are not renewable.

Enthenol is bullshit as an alternative fuel compared to oil from the ground or even oil from coal.

But all you gullible mother fuckers will only realise this when it is too late.

[pagani]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by pagani It's a renewable fuel 8) Its a pity the rainforests the Brazillians are chopping down at a rate of a 1000 acres a week to plant cane for Europes ethenol needs are not renewable. Enthenol is bullshit as an alternative fuel compared to oil from the ground or even oil from coal. But all you gullible mother fuckers will only realise this when it is too late.

Bullshit you grom it on exsisting farming ground.
And you can make a it from bio waste.
:roll:

[pagani]

The chevy impala from pimp my ride v8 turbo bio diesel power.
http://hotrodhomepage.com/hrhp/2007/...-diesel-power/

8)

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by pagani Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by gangajas Ethanol makes more power Ethonol takes more fuel to make the same power... so when making "more" power, you are consuming far more gallons per mile driven. Yes it will use more fuel on converted gasonlineengine but it could be diffrent on engine that is made for bio ethanol. It's a renewable fuel 8)

It's chemistry, and physics. You simply can't, no matter what engine you build. The Gasoline engine will be superior in every way.

And about the slashing of the rain forest to make Ethonol... Pagani, where do you think most ethenol production is coming from in the world?

Furthermore, you cannot make E85 from biowaste... you are making biodiesel... which is a polluting smog producing health hazzard IMHO.

All this is a joke... and someday you'll get it. But that doesn't change the fact that you are being mislead by a propaganda arm of the evil power grabbing politicians of the world duping you into believing whatever they want.

[graywolf624]

Bullshit you grom it on exsisting farming ground. And you can make a it from bio waste.

There is not, nor by anyones estimates can there ever be, enough existing farm ground to give everyone ethanol. In fact youd have to cut down most of the worlds forest to do it. And when you cust down forest land you end up with a net negative position on CO2. Why?

A) trees consume more co2 then corn.

B) Trees are a positive co2 sink rather then a net sum 0 the corn is. So essentially you've made things worse if you believe in gw being caused by CO2 (we'll ignore that one for a minute).

As for biowaste, biowaste and ethanol both have 2 major problems.

A) they pollute other types of toxins (sulfur and nitrogen to be exact), which unlike the co2 demon are actually proven to cause acid rain and pollute ground water. Im sure it would be great to avert some slightly likely (im being charitable here) warming catastrophe by poisoning everyone and everything.

B) By simple physics it takes more energy to produce bioethanol and ethanol then it produces. Why is this important? Well lets think about this for a second. If I use 2X energy to produce 1X energy of ethanol. Well where am I getting the extra 1x from? It can't be ethanol as the law of energy conservation shows thats an impossibility. That means its either gasoline or electricity. Now Im not saying the ratio is exactly 2 to one, but it does show definitively that ethanol will never be the solution.

What do I believe is the solution? Well for right now its gasoline. Its the best choice. The market has dictated it as such and so has chemistry. Its the best for the environment overall and the most efficient from pump to energy. Will that change? Yes. Will it be some peak oil? No, as I've pointed out before and by the numerous bets Ive won but not collected on involving the recent decline in gas prices, the price of oil will only rise to the price of the next cheapest alternative. Right now I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt what that option is. The thing is, that doesn't mean it will be next, as something new could come along I don't expect, the Nambys could strike it down, or someone could force down the worlds throats a bandaid like ethanol that will bring us back to the same position we are in now. That closest solution is electric cars with the source being nuclear power.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by pagani Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by pagani It's a renewable fuel 8) Its a pity the rainforests the Brazillians are chopping down at a rate of a 1000 acres a week to plant cane for Europes ethenol needs are not renewable. Enthenol is bullshit as an alternative fuel compared to oil from the ground or even oil from coal. But all you gullible mother fuckers will only realise this when it is too late. Bullshit you grom it on exsisting farming ground. And you can make a it from bio waste. :roll:

Bullshit buddy - you have spent so much time looking for "conspiracy theory videos" that you forgot to watch the real news.

Read Greys response for the net negative energy issue, but almost as bad if not worse than that is the amount of fertilizers needed to achieve the amount of corn and cane etc harvests to try meet the current demands (even in europe) will end up polluting ground water and natural resources at levels until now never imagined.

Then if you consider the fertilizers primary source is oil you end up with a realization that your modern life depends on oil for far more than just "fuel in you silly 1l 3 cylinder diesel Fiat" - oil is what allows your entire existence to be... the plastics, medicines, housing, food and clothing you rely on ALL come from crude oil and coal buddy

It would seem that the majority of sheople have no idea just how bad "sugar cane and corn for oil" is for the global system as a whole.

Seriously - get a clue bloke.

[gucom]

ethanol is indeed not anywhere near a solution. apart from the sheer usage of surface and corresponding environmental problems, corn prices are already going up worldwide because so much of it is used for ethanol... if ethanol use increases, food prices for many of the "simple" foods that are the main source of food for billions of poor people will get more expensive

[RC45]

Originally Posted by gucom ethanol is indeed not anywhere near a solution. apart from the sheer usage of surface and corresponding environmental problems, corn prices are already going up worldwide because so much of it is used for ethanol... if ethanol use increases, food prices for many of the "simple" foods that are the main source of food for billions of poor people will get more expensive

very good point, very good point.

At the current time "food" produciton is not controlled by cartels like world oil produciotn is - on the contrary, countries like the USA currently give away billions of tonnes of corn and other staple foods to countries in need all over the world... imagine when corn becomes more important as a fuel source than a food source... where are the "greens" going to turn to then?

Seems like a lose lose situation this ethenol thing...

[nthfinity]

Pagani

Look past your nose, and see if you can see the power grubbing politicians investing, and legislating that we have to do it... and they get rich while we no longer have the freedom to choose what we drive.\

That is fine if they get rich, it is fine to buy stupid fuels, and cars that run on them... but don't you dare tell me that I have to as well.

[pagani]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Pagani Look past your nose, and see if you can see the power grubbing politicians investing, and legislating that we have to do it... and they get rich while we no longer have the freedom to choose what we drive.\ That is fine if they get rich, it is fine to buy stupid fuels, and cars that run on them... but don't you dare tell me that I have to as well.

I think etanol could work on smaller scale than petrol
And it think i could work in small country like the netherland or luxenborg.
So what do you all think could work?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by pagani Originally Posted by nthfinity Pagani Look past your nose, and see if you can see the power grubbing politicians investing, and legislating that we have to do it... and they get rich while we no longer have the freedom to choose what we drive.\ That is fine if they get rich, it is fine to buy stupid fuels, and cars that run on them... but don't you dare tell me that I have to as well. I think etanol could work on smaller scale than petrol And it think i could work in small country like the netherland or luxenborg. So what do you all think could work?

WHy would it "need" to work at any scale? WHy do YOU want ethanol? It is not cheaper.. it is not more abundant... it is not more efficient... it is not even cleaner burning... it has ZERO advantage over gasoline other than being "not gasoline".

How coul dit work in the Netherlands? The Netherlands doesnt even produce enough food on its own and imports to survive, so where is it going to "grow the corn and beets and cane" for the ethanol?

In some 3rd world country? Import it from the USA or China?

Gasoline will work just fine and will keep working just fine.

Why the obsession to move away from gasoline?

[pagani]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by pagani Originally Posted by nthfinity Pagani Look past your nose, and see if you can see the power grubbing politicians investing, and legislating that we have to do it... and they get rich while we no longer have the freedom to choose what we drive.\ That is fine if they get rich, it is fine to buy stupid fuels, and cars that run on them... but don't you dare tell me that I have to as well. I think etanol could work on smaller scale than petrol And it think i could work in small country like the netherland or luxenborg. So what do you all think could work? WHy would it "need" to work at any scale? WHy do YOU want ethanol? It is not cheaper.. it is not more abundant... it is not more efficient... it is not even cleaner burning... it has ZERO advantage over gasoline other than being "not gasoline". How coul dit work in the Netherlands? The Netherlands doesnt even produce enough food on its own and imports to survive, so where is it going to "grow the corn and beets and cane" for the ethanol? In some 3rd world country? Import it from the USA or China? Gasoline will work just fine and will keep working just fine. Why the obsession to move away from gasoline?

Because some people say it will be gone in 50 of 100 years from now.
8)

[RC45]

Originally Posted by pagani Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by pagani Originally Posted by nthfinity Pagani Look past your nose, and see if you can see the power grubbing politicians investing, and legislating that we have to do it... and they get rich while we no longer have the freedom to choose what we drive.\ That is fine if they get rich, it is fine to buy stupid fuels, and cars that run on them... but don't you dare tell me that I have to as well. I think etanol could work on smaller scale than petrol And it think i could work in small country like the netherland or luxenborg. So what do you all think could work? WHy would it "need" to work at any scale? WHy do YOU want ethanol? It is not cheaper.. it is not more abundant... it is not more efficient... it is not even cleaner burning... it has ZERO advantage over gasoline other than being "not gasoline". How coul dit work in the Netherlands? The Netherlands doesnt even produce enough food on its own and imports to survive, so where is it going to "grow the corn and beets and cane" for the ethanol? In some 3rd world country? Import it from the USA or China? Gasoline will work just fine and will keep working just fine. Why the obsession to move away from gasoline? Because some people say it will be gone in 50 of 100 years from now. 8)

And ? Just because "some people say" it makes it so?

Did you folks ever think that maybe there is no oil shortage or that the idea of "using it all up" might be a little absurd to say the least... besides, oil from coal is always another option.

It is amazing how "selective" some people are in what they believe...

[HeilSvenska]

I think it'll all come back to Nuclear Power very soon. That way, even car crashes won't be boring.