Go Back   Sports Car Forum - MotorWorld.net > Automotive Brands Forum > Car Chat



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2004, 05:02 PM   #16
skituner
Regular User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 633
Default

what about the Koenigsegg CCR??
skituner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 05:39 PM   #17
schnell318
Regular User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Guatemala
Posts: 787
Default

Originally Posted by skituner
what about the Koenigsegg CCR??
As far as I know it hasn´t been tested against the other three jet, but I don´t think it´ll beat the Enzo anyway. Maybe just straight line speed but nothing more.
schnell318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 06:22 PM   #18
HoboPie
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada.
Posts: 385
Default

The CGT is a serious competitor for the Enzo I think. I think the Enzo has it beat, but the CGT is pretty complete as a supercar. There was even that test where the CGT beat the Enzo around that small track, but even St. Anger admitted the braking distance on the Enzo was pretty insanely terrible.

The Mclaren is likely still a little bit quicker than the Enzo. The only test where I've really seen the Enzo taken to an sort of higher speeds was one where all the cars had pretty terrible acceleration times. The Enzo was actually about a second slower to 200kph I believe than it had been previously been tested.

The Koenigsegg seems to have it on top speed, but no test has actually had the CC8S come close to even the CGT in a straightline. It's most impressive stat so far has been 16.6seconds to 150mph. The Enzo does that in about 13 seconds.
__________________
Formerly known as SG Blade.
HoboPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 11:47 PM   #19
PATo355
Regular User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 2,558
Default

The CGT has been tested by many magasines as the Enzo too , in every comparison ive seen about the CGT and the SLR vs the Enzo , the Enzo tops them all , maybe the mclaren is better but at 1.5 million dollars its a little expensive , and about the Koenigsegg i dont think it can touch the enzo , the CCR or something like that might be faster with 806hp
__________________



"It changes direction like a fly, grips like a barnacle and goes like a jet fighter on combat power" ( Lambo Gallardo ) .JC.
PATo355 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 06:41 AM   #20
artypossum
Regular User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Barcelona Spain
Posts: 62
Default

Has anyone considered the enzo's price. I.E. alot more than the slr or cgt.
__________________
I will live forever, or die trying...
artypossum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 08:09 AM   #21
amanthapar
Regular User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 177
Default

imo the enzo is the fastest track car, carrera can get close but never will be able to beat it...
amanthapar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 11:46 AM   #22
StanAE86
Regular User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,148
Default

Remember that the McLaren is designed to be a "practical" supercar - as oxymoronic as that is. That's the reason for the soft suspension. I'm sure it has more luggage capacity too. :roll: Clearly, the Enzo is not designed with "practicality" in mind, because everyone knows that there's no such thing as a practical supercar. Had the F1 been designed simply to be the best supercar without regard to comfort, things like nose-dive in hard braking would have been much better. For the year that the F1 was released, I find it amazing that a new Enzo is being compared to it.

In my own opinion, the F1 is still the benchmark for the best supercar ever made. I would love to see Tiff give back to back reviews on the Enzo, F1, Konigsegg and Zonda. Top Gear has the money (and the insurance) COME ON...DO IT!!
__________________
-Stan
Still Reposting, Still Pimping
StanAE86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 06:57 PM   #23
ice
Regular User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 112
Default

Originally Posted by StanAE86
Remember that the McLaren is designed to be a "practical" supercar - as oxymoronic as that is. That's the reason for the soft suspension. I'm sure it has more luggage capacity too. :roll: Clearly, the Enzo is not designed with "practicality" in mind, because everyone knows that there's no such thing as a practical supercar. Had the F1 been designed simply to be the best supercar without regard to comfort, things like nose-dive in hard braking would have been much better. For the year that the F1 was released, I find it amazing that a new Enzo is being compared to it.

In my own opinion, the F1 is still the benchmark for the best supercar ever made. I would love to see Tiff give back to back reviews on the Enzo, F1, Konigsegg and Zonda. Top Gear has the money (and the insurance) COME ON...DO IT!!
The MacF1 was a great car, but dont get ahead of youself. It was not the best car of its era. the F50 was quicker on a track, better handling and cost less the half . When buying a supercar, i dont think prcaticality matters much. Besides, if youve read anything on the Enzo, every journalist is shocked to see how comfortable it is to drive. read the Road and track review in the mag section.
ice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 09:17 PM   #24
StanAE86
Regular User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,148
Default It Was An OPINION

You're actually telling me that my -opinion- is wrong. That's pretty arrogant.

You missed the complete point of my posting. I was writing in response to someone commenting about the "instability" of the McLaren and the high amount of body roll. My response was that the McLaren was designed with "practicality" in mind - and essentially, that the body roll was probably a sacrifice for comfort. Although all supercars are supposed to have some practicality, the extent that McLaren tried to do it, is demonstrated in things like, body roll. Don't think that McLaren couldn't have dialed a lot of that out, if they wanted to.

I'm not disagreeing that in a supercar, you obviously make concessions, but the F1 was designed to be a supercar that you could actually use for regular everyday stuff. That's great that you don't think practicality matters in a supercar, but you're pointing out what I already said, that a "practical" supercar is oxymoronic. If practicality doesn't matter to you, the fact that an F50 cost half as much, also doesn't matter.

I have read various articles on the Enzo. I have the R&T article you're talking about. I'll chalk your post's insulting innuendo that I don't read shit before establishing an opinion, as an unintentional insult on your part.

What I was pointing out was that the McLaren makes more concessions to try and be more practical (as silly as that is), and that the Enzo was being compared to a car that's over 10 years old already. That, in itself, is pretty amazing to me.

Here's the info I pulled :

F50 / McLaren

Price: $480,000 / something like $1.2 million

Engine: 4699cc / 6064cc
513bhp @ 8500RPM / 627bhp @ 7400RPM
347ft-lbs @ 6500RPM / 479ft-lbs @ 4000RPM

Curb
Weight: 2710lbs / 2840lbs

Top
Speed: 203mph / 231mph

0-30: 1.8 secs / 1.7 secs

0-60: 3.6 secs / 3.4 secs

1-100: 8.0 secs / 7.7 secs

1/4 mile: 12.1 secs / 11.6 secs

Source:

http://www-atdp.berkeley.edu/9931/dfan/f50specs.html
http://www-atdp.berkeley.edu/9931/dfan/f1specs.html

(Obviously, the numbers will differ, depending on where you go and how hard you look, but that's what I found with a 5 second search on Google)

-----------

Based on those numbers, the McLaren is faster, and significantly so in the 1/4 mile, which is one of the things people use to compare a car's performance levels. I didn't find any back to back testing on a track though,which in my opinion is very important also. Whatever the case, in the end, whether either car is .2 seconds faster than the other may or may not play a part in someone's overall decision as to which car is better.

I've never driven either car. I think I'd be pretty safe in guessing that you've never driven an F50 or McLaren and that your opinion is also based on what you've read and heard (if I'm wrong, I stand corrected and you're definately luckier than I am). So in the end, you've convinced me of nothing other than the fact that you lack tact, you don't read well or your reading comprehension skills are challenged with even the simplest of writings, you're insulting (although possibly inadvertent insults) and that you're arrogant enough to tell someone that their own personal opinion is wrong. Go fukk yourself. :fist:
__________________
-Stan
Still Reposting, Still Pimping
StanAE86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2004, 02:18 AM   #25
HoboPie
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada.
Posts: 385
Default

The F50 according to several people(including Tiff) is quicker around a track. Though if it was a really quick track I'm not sure.

Also the Euro version of the F1 did this:

0-60: 3.2
0-100: 6.3
1/4 mile: 11.1 or 11.0 not sure

The only regular supercar that has been tested independantly without slicks(mosler MT) that has come close to the F1 in a straightline is the Enzo.

0-60: 3.14 - 3.3
0-100: 6.5
1/4 mile: 11.1
__________________
Formerly known as SG Blade.
HoboPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2004, 05:12 AM   #26
abbor
Regular User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,068
Default

Originally Posted by HoboPie
My response was that the McLaren was designed with "practicality" in mind - and essentially, that the body roll was probably a sacrifice for comfort.
I thought that the F1 got 3 seats and luggage space only because they found out it wouldn't affect the performance, so I think that's not really an argument...

And for the discussion... Wouldn't it be just perfect to have a machine which test all cars in the world and gives a specific result on all of them? I mean, that's the only way you can objectively test a supercar... A lap time gives a pretty good idea of how good it is, but if the difference is in the 1/100 of a second then you have to consider that the driver maybe had a lucky day and so on...
But maybe if there was a racing-league with all the cars involved, and the Enzo won all the races, then that'd maybe be objective enough...
abbor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2004, 05:59 PM   #27
he7lius
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 566
Default

One way to find out which is the quickest on the track would be the Top Gear track. I don't get it why did 5th gear test the Enzo and Top gear no?? :x
Just ask Jay Kay to bring his one for a hot lap.

I think the Mc F1 and the Koenigsegg are straight line speed cars, not track cars.
he7lius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2004, 08:26 PM   #28
abbor
Regular User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,068
Default

Yeah.. but a Top Gear track test is not very objective.... Not all of them get good conditions, and they don't really care.. The times are just for fun, although it is a way to find out that 360 Challenge Stradale IS faster then f.ex. an Evo...
abbor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2004, 02:17 PM   #29
amanthapar
Regular User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 177
Default

HoboPie and StanAE86.....

i think ur figures are slightly unaccurate..
the enzo can do the quater mile in 11.0 secs flat and te f1 in 10.7 flat..
both are claimed by manufacturers.. i know that for sure..
apart from the buggati veryon the MC f1 is still the only stock road car that can break the 11 sec barrier...
amanthapar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2004, 02:19 PM   #30
amanthapar
Regular User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 177
Default

oh sorry and the koenisseggg i forgot i think can do it in 10.9 not sure about that
amanthapar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump