Corvette Z06 vs Hayabusa

[RC45]

Originally Posted by sentra_dude But what about on a track? I seem to remember some article from an Aussie mag where they drove a C5 Z06 against a sport bike on a circuit and if the car wasn't faster than the bike it was almost as fast...

Junior school physics old chap.. grip.. tons of grip. No bike can equal the cornering grip generated by wide tyres of a sports car.. and with 9.5" wide fronts and 11.5" wide rears, by any acocunt that is a lot of rubber for the very capable chassis to use.

Originally Posted by sentra_dude which is pretty surprising since the Z06 isn't that hardcore and obviously is much slower in the straight-line region...

Hate to sound like a Z06 champion here.. but uhm what do you mean by "isn't that hardcore" - you do realize the C5 Z06 matched the 360CS and GT3 of the same generaiton number for number point for point.. on any track they went to - including the all important Nurburgring...

So unless you are willing to call the 360CS and the GT3 "not that hardcore" then you don't really have a leg to stand on

But I some how doubt you would say anything negative about a Ferrari..

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by sentra_dude But what about on a track? I seem to remember some article from an Aussie mag where they drove a C5 Z06 against a sport bike on a circuit and if the car wasn't faster than the bike it was almost as fast... Junior school physics old chap.. grip.. tons of grip. No bike can equal the cornering grip generated by wide tyres of a sports car.. and with 9.5" wide fronts and 11.5" wide rears, by any acocunt that is a lot of rubber for the very capable chassis to use. Originally Posted by sentra_dude which is pretty surprising since the Z06 isn't that hardcore and obviously is much slower in the straight-line region... Hate to sound like a Z06 champion here.. but uhm what do you mean by "isn't that hardcore" - you do realize the C5 Z06 matched the 360CS and GT3 of the same generaiton number for number point for point.. on any track they went to - including the all important Nurburgring... So unless you are willing to call the 360CS and the GT3 "not that hardcore" then you don't really have a leg to stand on But I some how doubt you would say anything negative about a Ferrari..

Don't talk down to me like I'm some idiot. :roll:

My question was how would the C6 Z06 do against the Hayabusa on a track? I was only talking about the Aussie article as reference that a bike is matched by a car on a circuit. And by surprising I meant in the sense of how badly the car gets beaten on the straights, only to make it all up in braking and cornering. I am not stupid, I know a car has more tire contact patches than a bike. I have taken a few physics classes before. I still think it is surprising how much better a car can brake and corner than a bike, even a car that isn't close to race prepped. :roll: As in, you'd imagine since the bike is so fast in the straights, to keep up with it on a track you'd need a full-on racecar, instead of just a capable sportscar. And yes I understand the explaination behind it, does that mean I'm not allowed to think its surprising? :roll:

Yes, the 360CS and GT3, and your beloved Z06 are not that hardcore. Hardcore is an Aerial Atom or a Super 7 or a Radical SR3.

How is that saying something bad about the Ferrari or Porsche anyways?

[TNT]

i agree with every one


but the is kind of a bad comparo; yes i see what they are going for, fast car vs fast bike, yet as RC has been saying even a 600cc bike would stomp almost any street driven car. even the mighty Veyron would get made a fool by a $7K bike. and even around a track it would be close.

but again two totally different worlds.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by sentra_dude Don't talk down to me like I'm some idiot. :roll:

Wow - simple wow.

If I had wanted to call you an idiot, I would have called you an idiot.. but I didnt' - so I didn't

If you are going to be offended by "Junior school physics old chap.. grip.. tons of grip. " then you are super-hyper-ultra sensitve.

Look, if you have such a problem with me, you are only one state over, just get in your little car and come over here and beat me up.. you know you want to - I mena being a non violent type I'll just stand by and let you get rid of your anger. (but I digress, let's get back on topic)

Chap - take a freaking chill pill. AGain - wow.

Originally Posted by sentra_dude My question was how would the C6 Z06 do against the Hayabusa on a track?

Which if you did know that much about bikes would be again be a bit of a pointless question - a Hyabusa is like a Veyron of sportbikes - fast in a straight line, but a relatively slow turing overweight pig when the road gets twsity.

A more appropriate comparison would be the Gixxer1K vs C6 Z06 although even then its again grip stacked vs power to weight stacked.

Originally Posted by sentra_dude I was only talking about the Aussie article as reference that a bike is matched by a car on a circuit.

And if you havd read any other such articles over the years it always comes out the same... grip vs power to weight.

Street bikes cannot generate the turning grip cars can.

Originally Posted by sentra_dude And by surprising I meant in the sense of how badly the car gets beaten on the straights, only to make it all up in braking and cornering.

Well - again - if you consider that cars can maintain huge grip through the corners where bikes are classic slow in fast out vehicles it is not that surprising..

Originally Posted by sentra_dude I am not stupid, I know a car has more tire contact patches than a bike. I have taken a few physics classes before.

No one said you are stupid.

Originally Posted by sentra_dude I still think it is surprising how much better a car can brake and corner than a bike, even a car that isn't close to race prepped. :roll:

Not really if you think about it - as the "not so hardcore" cars you so gleefully belittle are actually capable of generating over a G of constant corner grip and then maybe even accelerate on top of that - street bikes cant quite do that..

Originally Posted by sentra_dude As in, you'd imagine since the bike is so fast in the straights, to keep up with it on a track you'd need a full-on racecar, instead of just a capable sportscar. And yes I understand the explaination behind it, does that mean I'm not allowed to think its surprising? :roll:

You should think its surprising all you want, but to folks who have either ridden sports bikes in anger or been on a race track and observed that how even a number seconds are made up when a chased vehicle slows too much in and for a turn - it is not that surprising after all.

Perhaps it is more correct to say "surprising to folks who refuse to believe it"?

Originally Posted by sentra_dude Yes, the 360CS and GT3, and your beloved Z06 are not that hardcore. Hardcore is an Aerial Atom or a Super 7 or a Radical SR3.

Well - with a contextless comparison one can say the Aerial Atom is not hardcore... (compared to a GT1 racing car) - and how about you climb off that high horse there is nothing "beloved" about my car - again if you really have such a problem why not just come over here and end it - I am sure the only thing that will make you happy would be to punch me in the face.. you have been wating this for a long time now we all know it

Originally Posted by sentra_dude How is that saying something bad about the Ferrari or Porsche anyways?

Well - note how you made sure your "the 360CS is not that hardcore" was tempered by comparing to an Aerial Atom.. cause you couldn;t just say it outright - "The 360CS is not that hardcore" cause we know you are unable to bash any F-Car

[no doubt you will still take offense at and harbour anger towards me as a result of this response.. but such is life.. we are unable to be liked by all or even please all ]

[TNT]

breath RC breath......

[RC45]

Originally Posted by TNT breath RC breath......

Hehe

I am.. and in between am trying to find all the other "Car vs Bike" articles to help calm the waters.

I need to start watching my back man.. these New Orleans ruffians are a mean bunch.. you don't wanna make them angry

[TeflonTron]

Yes, a car has more grip, but on most racetracks that isn't enough to overcome the HUGE advantage that the bike has.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by TeflonTron Yes, a car has more grip, but on most racetracks that isn't enough to overcome the HUGE advantage that the bike has.

Uhm - yes it is.

Do you really need us to post every single car vs bike article to show that it takes a GP class bike to soundly beat a car around a track?

Now we know 100% for sure you are all theory and no practice

[RC45]

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas When I used to take part in trackdays at the Barcelona circuit... you 'shared' the track with bikes - although not at the same time - so it was easy to compare laptimes. And although the race-prepared sport bikes with slicks were faster, my 193hp Clio (on slicks though) was always faster than any sport bike with road tyres. And my Clio is not a 800hp supercar I guess that the rider-factor is important in the equation, and most of the times, they were really amateur riders - but I'm not Schumacher anyway... So around the track I can tell you a good sports car is faster than a bike, that's for sure. On straigh line it's different, way different...

Thank you for bringing some sense to the table

People forget a lap is made up of straights AND corners and you have to string these evenst togethe, and just because you make up time on one sector, if you give it up again on another you have a good chance of coming second

[TopGearNL]

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas When I used to take part in trackdays at the Barcelona circuit... you 'shared' the track with bikes - although not at the same time - so it was easy to compare laptimes. And although the race-prepared sport bikes with slicks were faster, my 193hp Clio (on slicks though) was always faster than any sport bike with road tyres. And my Clio is not a 800hp supercar I guess that the rider-factor is important in the equation, and most of the times, they were really amateur riders - but I'm not Schumacher anyway... So around the track I can tell you a good sports car is faster than a bike, that's for sure. On straigh line it's different, way different...

Yes exactly!

The machine may be capable of it, but the rider is another factor!

[gobs3z]

Cars will always outcorner a bike, the grip of four wheel will always win over the grip of two wheels. The question is, are there enough corners on the track for a car to make up against the massive acceleration of the bike? Factors are the type of bike, car, and skill level of the driver and rider.

[TNT]

^^^ yup but there will always be fanboys on each side.

[TeflonTron]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by TeflonTron Yes, a car has more grip, but on most racetracks that isn't enough to overcome the HUGE advantage that the bike has. Uhm - yes it is. Do you really need us to post every single car vs bike article to show that it takes a GP class bike to soundly beat a car around a track? Now we know 100% for sure you are all theory and no practice

What bike vs what car? An entry level bike will piss all over an entry level car, and a race-prepped car will hammer a race-prepped bike, so something the middle must be the best compromise, likewise with the kind of track that they race on.

There was an article that I remember reading a long time ago where a Z06 (I think) and a Skyline with something like 500-600AWP got cained by a regular road bike on a racetrack, IIRC.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by TeflonTron What bike vs what car? An entry level bike will piss all over an entry level car, and a race-prepped car will hammer a race-prepped bike, so something the middle must be the best compromise, likewise with the kind of track that they race on. There was an article that I remember reading a long time ago where a Z06 (I think) and a Skyline with something like 500-600AWP got cained by a regular road bike on a racetrack, IIRC.

Sorry - it couldn't and didnt happen if the riders/drivers were like skilled.

Look - I have been around hipo sport bikes all my life and spent a lot of time around and with hipo sports cars.

The idea that a "regualr road bike" will destroy a car everywhere is a myth.

In a straight line and through high speed sweepers it is no contest... a bike will destroy a car.. and I have done this many times out in the backroads... but once the road gets very tight there are good chances in a street situaiton that the car will make up the ground because you can go in deeper and wilder in the car... and where on the street there is a huge room for error in the car, the bike needs to ratchet back a lot as the margin for error is a lot less.

Because while the acceleration of the bike is 10x better than the car, the cars turning prowess needs only be 1 or 2x better than the bike on the street to make up the diff. as the due caution shown by the rider on the street allows the car to get right up on their tail.

I know because I often piss sport bikers off in my neck of the woods as I chase them down on the roads I drive (the same ones I used to ride on ) - and to a T they are at first upset by the car being so close, then get really pissed when they realise the gap they kept pulling on the straight away gets eaten up so quickly in the bends.

Now on to the track sitution.

Same holds true, except instead of "conservatism' being the enemy of the bike, it is the fact that now the car is able to use even more grip as the driver is more comfortable to push the car on the track as well.

So even thought the bike still ahs the 10x acceleration advantage, the rider better be Rossi and the tyres better be hot slicks (or close) to still maintain the corner difference.

It is very much liek the fact that a well driven Caterham Superlight R laps at the same speed as a well driven modded GT3 - even though the GT3 pulls 15 mph more down the straight... it has to brake harder for the turns and while the Superlight R is slower on the straights, the corner entry, mid corner and corner exit speeds are higher.. so the net result is a similar lap time.

But if you to overlay the 2 laps you would see how the GT3 pulls away from the SLR on the striaght bits but by the time the 2 cars get through the complex secitons they are neck and neck again.. and so it goes on.

So the best you would get is a street bike would be able to put up a great fight but don't be shocked to see a strong modern street sports car not be left behind by the street bike.

Of course once you substitue a race prepped bike with slicks and a great rider the tables can be turned quite easily as race tyres allow bikes much greater corner entry and mid corner speeds... superb skill then lets the rider dial on the power and manhandle the bike back on the straights for brain squashing acceleration.

But if you ow do the same for car camp the game is lost before kickoff, because now the cars corner entry speed (because of grip) and mid corner speeds have jumped as well.

What bikes do though is allow people to access and experience Veyron level speeds and accelleration for the cost of an expensive home theatre system

[TeflonTron]

Yeah, bikes are so cheap and so many get in the 10s stock. Easy to mod too, with 400-600WHP Busas out there (scary fast!!). I'll see if I can find that article, as it surprised me somewhat (I agree with all that you said, and my initial point was just classes of bike vs classes of car).