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11-07-2007, 04:01 AM
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#16
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Regular User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Monterey(Home)/Irvine(School), California
Posts: 989
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Originally Posted by 79TA
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Originally Posted by Zot09
Mustangs are cool and all, but that live rear axle just kills it for me :roll:   |
:roll: Oh give it a rest already, I doubt you've ever driven a car hard enough to really even need IRS. They had IRS in previous Cobra versions but had problems with things breaking, especially under the stresses of drag racing.
Random trivia: Did you know that Ford actually had an IRS unit designed for the original Mustang? They did but decided it was too costly and people wouldn't really know the difference anyway. |
Yes, I haven't driven the Mustang hard enough to really need an IRS. Hell, I haven't driven my car hard enough to really take advantage of my IRS. But having an IRS just makes the car feel so much more stable during a turn, that's all I'm saying. I feel so much more comfortable taking a turn at 40 in my car than in my roommates Mustang.
Yes, LRA's are great for drag racing, something that Mustangs are good at. I just prefer a car that feels more stable during a turn.
As for the trivia, no I did not know that. I learn something new every day. But I did know that the reason Ford went with the LRA is to save costs.
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11-07-2007, 04:27 AM
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#17
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Regular User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,570
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I'm saying that LRA's are decent for handling as well. I don't think IRS makes cars so drastically more stable in a turn, especially at 40. You're entitled to your opinion though. My Trans Am is stable despite its live rear axle. That's in part due to its nice wide stance, low CG, and decent rubber. I don't go off-roading with it and the body roll is minimal, so I don't find the linear connection between my rear wheels to be much of a hindrance.
IRS offers two basic advantages, neither of which make a car arbitrarily more stable in 40 mph flat curve. IRS, better controls the camber of the wheels in order to maintain the largest contact patch possible. If the car isn't leaning a lot, isn't drving at 10/10 competition pace, and isn't driving over very very sloped ground, this is hardly an issue at all. The other advantage does more to affect real world driving. In short, one wheel going over a bump will do less to upset the traction of the other. Once again, I haven't done any offroading nor have I charged into a field of potholes, so it's really not a major issue.
I'm sick and tired of people arguing the advantages of IRS in vague, unsubstantiated terms such as "stability" and "modern," when the advantages on decent roads are hardly a factor and especially if it saves you 2 grand. The Jeremy Clarkson-esque girder talk doesn't cut it.
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11-07-2007, 04:27 AM
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#18
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Regular User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,570
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I'm saying that LRA's are decent for handling as well. I don't think IRS makes cars so drastically more stable in a turn, especially at 40. You're entitled to your opinion though. My Trans Am is stable despite its live rear axle. That's in part due to its nice wide stance, low CG, and decent rubber. I don't go off-roading with it and the body roll is minimal, so I don't find the linear connection between my rear wheels to be much of a hindrance.
IRS offers two basic advantages, neither of which make a car arbitrarily more stable in 40 mph flat curve. IRS, better controls the camber of the wheels in order to maintain the largest contact patch possible. If the car isn't leaning a lot, isn't drving at 10/10 competition pace, and isn't driving over very very sloped ground, this is hardly an issue at all. The other advantage does more to affect real world driving. In short, one wheel going over a bump will do less to upset the traction of the other. Once again, I haven't done any offroading nor have I charged into a field of potholes, so it's really not a major issue.
I'm sick and tired of people arguing the advantages of IRS in vague, unsubstantiated terms such as "stability" and "modern," when the advantages on decent roads are hardly a factor and especially if it saves you 2 grand. The Jeremy Clarkson-esque girder talk doesn't cut it.
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11-07-2007, 04:46 AM
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#19
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Regular User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,570
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Furthermore, it's not even fair to compare the current Mustang to leafspring cars such as mine. The current Mustang is one of the first cars to be outfitted with a 3-link rear suspension but it gets no credit because the magic three letter acronym isn't present. The 3-link found in the Mustang is well thought out (the geometry offers good roll bind) and very tunable. My favorite example, of course, is the PJ Mustang with the Watt's link. 3-links are much lighter than IRS units (and more than make up for any difference that there may or may not be in unsprung weight).
In summary, the unrecognized 3-link makes a good roadracer and drag racer while saving weight and money. I think it's an appropriate fit for the everyman's pony car. I'm sure Ford will have a beefed up IRS unit out soon enough. (next gen/facelifted Mustang?) Modern Mustangs' handling woes can more realistically be addressed with shocks, stiffer bushings, and stiffer coil springs.
The overhyped IRS talk makes me wonder if people are more concerned with bragging about features on their cars or actually turning corners. I wish people would try to understand how the performance actually differs half as much as they worry about a lack of a three letter acronym.
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11-07-2007, 04:46 AM
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#20
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Regular User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,570
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Furthermore, it's not even fair to compare the current Mustang to leafspring cars such as mine. The current Mustang is one of the first cars to be outfitted with a 3-link rear suspension but it gets no credit because the magic three letter acronym isn't present. The 3-link found in the Mustang is well thought out (the geometry offers good roll bind) and very tunable. My favorite example, of course, is the PJ Mustang with the Watt's link. 3-links are much lighter than IRS units (and more than make up for any difference that there may or may not be in unsprung weight).
In summary, the unrecognized 3-link makes a good roadracer and drag racer while saving weight and money. I think it's an appropriate fit for the everyman's pony car. I'm sure Ford will have a beefed up IRS unit out soon enough. (next gen/facelifted Mustang?) Modern Mustangs' handling woes can more realistically be addressed with shocks, stiffer bushings, and stiffer coil springs.
The overhyped IRS talk makes me wonder if people are more concerned with bragging about features on their cars or actually turning corners. I wish people would try to understand how the performance actually differs half as much as they worry about a lack of a three letter acronym.
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11-07-2007, 09:26 AM
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#21
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Regular User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,929
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Don't believe a LRA can handle? Did you see what Roush did with the Mustang? Saleen?
The SHelby KR (or Supersnake, I can't remember which) is actually able to out skidpad a Ford GT.. sure not as nimble. But... .95g no matter what your feelings on IRS vs. LRA is much much more then what most IRS cars actually can muster up 
the base Mustang GT is .88... which again, is more
Skidpad is one of the quantifiable means of describing handling.
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11-07-2007, 09:26 AM
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#22
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Regular User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,929
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Don't believe a LRA can handle? Did you see what Roush did with the Mustang? Saleen?
The SHelby KR (or Supersnake, I can't remember which) is actually able to out skidpad a Ford GT.. sure not as nimble. But... .95g no matter what your feelings on IRS vs. LRA is much much more then what most IRS cars actually can muster up
the base Mustang GT is .88... which again, is more
Skidpad is one of the quantifiable means of describing handling.
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11-07-2007, 09:29 AM
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#23
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Regular User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mayfair/Brighton
Posts: 1,262
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All this skidpad crap, lateral grip is not a black and white refl;ection of a cars handling.
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11-07-2007, 09:29 AM
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#24
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Regular User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mayfair/Brighton
Posts: 1,262
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All this skidpad crap, lateral grip is not a black and white refl;ection of a cars handling.
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11-07-2007, 09:49 AM
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#25
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Regular User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Spanish Castle Magic
Posts: 1,452
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Mustang's rear suspension:
Independent rear suspension:
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11-07-2007, 09:49 AM
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#26
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Regular User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Spanish Castle Magic
Posts: 1,452
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Mustang's rear suspension:
Independent rear suspension:
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11-07-2007, 10:00 AM
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#27
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Regular User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,929
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Originally Posted by pitfield
All this skidpad crap, lateral grip is not a black and white refl;ection of a cars handling.
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I know its sometimes tough to read what others say, but I said "one quantifiable method of describing handling"
It's really funny when I hear the euro's keep talking about some 1.2 liter FWD hatch POS and say it handles better then a Corvette LMAO
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11-07-2007, 10:00 AM
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#28
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Regular User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,929
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Originally Posted by pitfield
All this skidpad crap, lateral grip is not a black and white refl;ection of a cars handling.
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I know its sometimes tough to read what others say, but I said "one quantifiable method of describing handling"
It's really funny when I hear the euro's keep talking about some 1.2 liter FWD hatch POS and say it handles better then a Corvette LMAO
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11-07-2007, 02:02 PM
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#29
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Regular User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 523
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11-07-2007, 02:02 PM
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#30
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Regular User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 523
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