motor

kramerman · 05-17-2004, 03:39 PM

Just a suggestion, perhaps BM drivers can do it in any car they drive because those cars are pretty much driver's cars..

What i can suggest is what my friend did for one of his cars which had a very 'high' brake pedal. It can actually be adjusted so perhaps ask your workshop to adjust it down or something. I don't know how it's done exactly, but i know doing this would be much better then getting your feet stuck, or resting lightly on the brake pedals.

saadie · 05-23-2004, 04:49 PM

ermm .. whats the actuall purpose of heel toe technique ..... ??

sry guyz im askin in the mid , i heard lotsa stuff , just wanna make sure whats the actuall one ...

jon_s · 05-23-2004, 04:56 PM

To match the rotational speed between cluch and engine I believe.

When you are braking down in 4th, when you are just about to change to 3rd, the revs are low(ish) when you slot in 3rd, the revs climb steeply. The clutch takes the brunt of this difference in speed. By blipping the throttle the revs are already in the range they will be going to when the clutch is engaged. As a result, you can save ware and tear on you components. I believe that is the essence, but I am sure others on here will have something to add/correct.

edit, or should that be gear box speed and not clutch

Some people used to double blip, once when the gearbox was in neutral to match speeds, and once before engaging. The need for this has been reduced in todays cars because of electronic syncros that make sure everything is going on correctly. Damn it confused myself now lol

By the sounds of it, I use the same tech as caneswell. braking with the ball of the foot is key, and getting used to applying pressure while rotating in the ball. I just catch the throttle with the right side of my heel.

saadie · 05-23-2004, 05:35 PM

oh ok

jon_s · 05-23-2004, 05:43 PM

lol, I did not do a good job of that did I!!!

I'll leave it to the experts!

RME1 · 05-26-2004, 03:18 AM

Heel Toeing allows the driver to go through the corner as quickly as possible, without losing too much rev's in the process. With the engine blimps, it allows the car greater acceleration out of the corner, because the rev's are kept nice and high...you should get (buy/download) Drift Bibile by Drift King Tsuyia-thingo (the international version)...it goes through all the ways you can drift (or drive fast :roll: , but why go fast when you can go sideways?)

Cheers

coombsie66 · 05-26-2004, 05:21 AM

You were almost there jon_s, the aim is to match the engine speed (and hence flywheel angular velocity) to the grearbox input shaft speeed (and hence clutch plate angular velocity) as you change gear.
The double -de-clutching, ie revving in neutral on the downshift was used on cars without syncromeshes (non electronic, all mechanical

) now the syncros mean that gears slip in easily. On some cheaper cars though there might not be a syncro on 1st gear or reverse, hence you cant just slot into 1st whilst rolling to a stop.
As for heel and toeing its all been said pretty much, brake with the ball of your foot and bip the throttle with your heel.
Ive found a car where i think its physically impossible unless you have size 14 feet!! Landrover 300 Tdi Defender, ive tried my hardest but it aint happening!!! lol

ChrisAW11 · 06-01-2004, 12:52 PM

electronic synchros? Not really... Just better (still mechanical) ones.
You match the speed of the wheels and the engine by doing it. If you don't - well, Keichi "Drift King" Tsuchiya recommends it as a beginner's technique for getting your tail out for a drift. Not the kind of thing you want to do when racing. There is of course the debate going on wether one should heel and toe during the entire gear range (i.e. when braking from 5th at the end of a long straight down to 2nd for the tight corner after that, you would do three heel-and-toe shifts), or wether one should just brake with the clutch pushed in, and then heel-and-toe only to get 2nd gear in. The first approach would give the benefit of engine braking, which affects only the rear wheels - as most street cars have a very front-biased brake setup, this is a good thing in terms of coming closer to an ideal brake distribution, the second one allows for better pedal modulation (as you aren't constantly moving your foot around while trying to hold the brakes at the optimum point).
Basically, it's better to Heel&Toe every gear in a production car, and to skip the unnecessary heel&toeing with racecars - you can always move the brake balance towards the rear tires instead of using the engine brake.

Dave1 · 10-03-2004, 07:40 AM

jon_s is on the right track. The purpose of heal & toe is to match the engine speed/revs with the speed of the gearbox/wheels. Its not really essential for road driving but it does make for smoother down changes.

As you probably know the heal & toe technique comes from motor racing (circuit racing) where it is essential to keep the car balanced at all times. If you're doing 120 mph into a corner and don't heal and toe the car will become unstable and you will most likely crash into the nearest tyre wall. :shock:

The reason people use the technique on the public roads is because they’re petrol heads and like the sound of their engines.

Hope this helps. great forum/site by the way.

Evo · 10-03-2004, 08:34 AM

Heel and Toe is very easy onces you get use to it.. I'm not a master in heel and Toe technique but I do it very offen.. The hardest part of it is matching the rev .. I can put my feet in the heel and toe position very earily but bliping the throutte to match the other gear rev is a bit hard for me coz I sometimes foucus on it much more than changing the gear..lol so the rev just drops down.. But I do use it a lot on roads and on the track.

homemade wrx · 10-11-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by WhiteP

My car is just a Mazda Protege

I think I can do the left and right method properly....my point is, I don't understand how BM drivers can do the REAL Heel and Toe in any cars... probably they're going really fast... and press the brake really hard.. ??

also they are driving RHD drive cars which means they don't have a center console blocking there foot from being sideways. In my LHD Impreza there isn't room to heel toe like they do in BM so I do the side of the foot shifting.
take it easy, Micah

FoxFour · 10-12-2004, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by hemi_fan

yeah, the pedals in the stang are supposed to be set up for heel-toe, but the gas pedal is much farther back than the brake, so it would be hard under moderate braking. I tried it in my accord a few times, but its difficult. Havent tried in the mustang yet.

Exactly. My SVO had the best setup for heel/toe. The placement of the pedals were basically designed for that. One of the things that they did was substitute the regular clutch pedal with the wider brake pedal assembly from an automatic.

adamk24 · 10-13-2004, 05:42 AM

I adjusted the height of my brake pedal on my 1989 audi to make it easier to reach the gas from the brake pedal with my heal. It was pretty easy to adjust, I just tightened the adjustment screw on the firewall, but that messed up my vehicle load sensor, which then was tricked into thinking my car was overweighted and caused my brakes to get grabby. A day and a shop manual later though and it was fixed.