American cars in the UK?British cars in the US?etc.Thoughts?

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by Akmon American every day cars suck.This is sure.They are totally uncool,ugly,and their performance is dreadfull.French cars are the same.Now let's speak about supercars.Americans have Mustang,Corvette,Viper.French-none.Britts which I particularly admire have Aston Martin,Mini Cooper,Rolls Royce,Range Rover,Land Rover,Jaguar,MG.So I think that after germans and italians,Britts sure take the 3rd place,whith some of the greatest cars ever to be made. 0X

Yes, but you didn’t address the fact that Ford owns almost every one of the britt car bards you just named. Except for cooper and rolls. So are those cars really still British? Plus don’t you think new Fords and especially all fords coming out in the next 10 years will naturally be better because they have absorbed all the technology from these brands you just said you liked?

[ZfrkS62]

i think what you really have to look at is the individual american based companies. Not their entire conglomorate.

looking at it that way, yes the american brands are true piles of shit. i really think it all went downhill in the 80's with thier boxy styling and horribly executed emissions controls.

You couldn't pay me to get an American car these days

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 i think what you really have to look at is the individual american based companies. Not their entire conglomorate. looking at it that way, yes the american brands are true piles of shit. i really think it all went downhill in the 80's with thier boxy styling and horribly executed emissions controls. You couldn't pay me to get an American car these days

Again I think people like you are funny. You are holding opinions about American cars in 2005 based on how they looked in the 80s?!?! I'm not an American car fan, I drive an Acura RSX. But again their is no logic to what you just said. The auto world has changed so much and continues to change as we speak. You have to look at a company’s entire conglomerate because that is the reality of the auto industry. You are 22 and the kid before you was 20. I think what it comes down to is that American cars are not "cool" right now. Even if almost all the reasons for them not being "cool" no longer hold true.

[Aleighy]

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 i think what you really have to look at is the individual american based companies. Not their entire conglomorate. looking at it that way, yes the american brands are true piles of shit. i really think it all went downhill in the 80's with thier boxy styling and horribly executed emissions controls. You couldn't pay me to get an American car these days

You already know what I'm going to say here, Z. But It has to be said anyways. I drive a 2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT1, a GM, and AMERICAN product, if I'm not mistaken. And you also know how I feel about that car. She's my baby and I love her to death. You also know that my sister drives a GMC Sierra and my mom has a Dodge Intrepid, all american cars. The only non-american vehicles we have ever had were the Jaguar (which we got rid of because parts were too expensive) and my Honda Accord (which was a pile, to say the least). From my experience, American vehicles can be good-looking and reliable.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 i think what you really have to look at is the individual american based companies. Not their entire conglomorate. looking at it that way, yes the american brands are true piles of shit. i really think it all went downhill in the 80's with thier boxy styling and horribly executed emissions controls. You couldn't pay me to get an American car these days Again I think people like you are funny. You are holding opinions about American cars in 2005 based on how they looked in the 80s?!?! I'm not an American car fan, I drive an Acura RSX. But again their is no logic to what you just said. The auto world has changed so much and continues to change as we speak. You have to look at a company’s entire conglomerate because that is the reality of the auto industry. You are 22 and the kid before you was 20. I think what it comes down to is that American cars are not "cool" right now. Even if almost all the reasons for them not being "cool" no longer hold true.

Proton own Lotus.... does that mean Proton cars are comparable to the likes of an Elise?

Are lambos in the same league as Audi/VW's etc?

Although the likes of Aston, Jaguar, Lotus etc etc are not owned by themselves, they operate fundamentally as individual companies.

To me, my views on the vast majority of American cars are not going to change based on who they own.....

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by mindgam3 Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 i think what you really have to look at is the individual american based companies. Not their entire conglomorate. looking at it that way, yes the american brands are true piles of shit. i really think it all went downhill in the 80's with thier boxy styling and horribly executed emissions controls. You couldn't pay me to get an American car these days Again I think people like you are funny. You are holding opinions about American cars in 2005 based on how they looked in the 80s?!?! I'm not an American car fan, I drive an Acura RSX. But again their is no logic to what you just said. The auto world has changed so much and continues to change as we speak. You have to look at a company’s entire conglomerate because that is the reality of the auto industry. You are 22 and the kid before you was 20. I think what it comes down to is that American cars are not "cool" right now. Even if almost all the reasons for them not being "cool" no longer hold true. Proton own Lotus.... does that mean Proton cars are comparable to the likes of an Elise? Are lambos in the same league as Audi/VW's etc? Although the likes of Aston, Jaguar, Lotus etc etc are not owned by themselves, they operate fundamentally as individual companies. To me, my views on the vast majority of American cars are not going to change based on who they own.....

Well you are only 19. Anyone that understands that ford has acquired Mazda, Volvo, Astin, Rover, Jag, etc. and not think that Ford's cars are naturally going to improve across their entire line globally, especially over the next 3 or 4 years is just naive and caught up only in brand image. But thats fine, thats why Ford makes the Valvo S40 for people like you. A Focus with a fancy badge.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by mindgam3 Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 i think what you really have to look at is the individual american based companies. Not their entire conglomorate. looking at it that way, yes the american brands are true piles of shit. i really think it all went downhill in the 80's with thier boxy styling and horribly executed emissions controls. You couldn't pay me to get an American car these days Again I think people like you are funny. You are holding opinions about American cars in 2005 based on how they looked in the 80s?!?! I'm not an American car fan, I drive an Acura RSX. But again their is no logic to what you just said. The auto world has changed so much and continues to change as we speak. You have to look at a company’s entire conglomerate because that is the reality of the auto industry. You are 22 and the kid before you was 20. I think what it comes down to is that American cars are not "cool" right now. Even if almost all the reasons for them not being "cool" no longer hold true. Proton own Lotus.... does that mean Proton cars are comparable to the likes of an Elise? Are lambos in the same league as Audi/VW's etc? Although the likes of Aston, Jaguar, Lotus etc etc are not owned by themselves, they operate fundamentally as individual companies. To me, my views on the vast majority of American cars are not going to change based on who they own..... Well you are only 19. Anyone that understands that ford has acquired Mazda, Volvo, Astin, Rover, Jag, etc. and not think that Ford's cars are naturally going to improve across their entire line globally, especially over the next 3 or 4 years is just naive and caught up only in brand image. But thats fine, thats why Ford makes the Valvo S40 for people like you. A Focus with a fancy badge.

Ford are going to naturally improve over the next few years because they have to... otherwise they will go bust; it's got little to do with who they own. The majority of profits from their owned companies go back into the relevant companies and not back to Ford directly.

Btw, Ford don't own rover, not that it exists anymore.

Part sharing goes across the entire network of car companies.

For example, the 4WD system on the Range Rover is shared with the BMW X5, not any of the Ford line up.

Deisgners and engineers frequently move between companies and so one designer could be responsible for 4 or 5 different cars in 4 or 5 seperate companies. Likewise cars are often designed "out of house". The GT40 for example is technically a British based car - but I would never consider it anything other than American. This is why it's fairly pointless comparing companies including the companies they own.

I don't consider Lotus Malaysian as much as i don't consider Aston American: they're both British....

Who's caught up in brand image? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Whether you like it or not, certain car producing countries produce a certain type of vehicle - in general. This is what this thread is about, not brand image :roll:

[Global Warming]

Ford does own Land Rover.

Lotus is not a good example because lotus only makes very high end performance cars in extremely small numbers compared to the number of cars Jag, etc. make each year.

As for Lamborghini, they have benefited tremendously from the VW ownership!! If it wasn’t for VW I don’t think lambo would even be around anymore. Ever since 1997 when Audi bought lambo the cars have just gotten better and better. They put all of Audis AWD technology into the, Murcielago, and Gallardo.

The fact is that Ford and all other parent companies are just going to continue making more and more cross platform cars where 50% plus of all components are interchangeable across brands. Just because one car is assembled in this country or that country wont make any difference to the end product. If you think all cars assembled in the USA are bad and all cars assembled in the UK are better you are going to have a tough time choosing cars in the upcoming years.

The point that you keep missing is that even though those companies maybe have been mostly left independent during the first few years after Ford bought them is not the way it will stay. Ford, GM, Chrysler haven’t bought up so many European brands just for fun. No its because they can come out with one basic car platform and sell it under multiple badges, markets, and price ranges, even though the car essentials and production costs will be generally the same. Also they will draw on all the talent, designers, and engineers etc. from all these formerly independent brands when designing their new cars.

[666fast]

No its because they can come out with one basic car platform and sell it under multiple badges

GM's #1 problem.

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by 666fast No its because they can come out with one basic car platform and sell it under multiple badges GM's #1 problem.

Well the new Ford Focus, Mazda 3, and Volvo S40 are all platform cars. Under the skin they are basically the same car; key components in all 3 are identical which greatly reduces production costs. So far it has been successful. This is what the auto world is now and will become for most cars in 5 years or so.. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. are all doing it too. Like I said, the auto world has and is changing a lot! Probably more dramatically than it has in 50 years.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Ford does own Land Rover.

I never said they didn't, i said they don't own ROVER.

As for Lamborghini, they have benefited tremendously from the VW ownership!! If it wasn’t for VW I don’t think lambo would even be around anymore. Ever since 1997 when Audi bought lambo the cars have just gotten better and better. They put all of Audis AWD technology into the, Murcielago, and Gallardo.

I'm not arguing whether they have benefited or not from the take overs. I'm saying that just because they're owned by a different manufacturer from a different country, doesen't make the daughter company belong any less to the original country.

Eg, i wouldnt in a million years consider Lamborghini german....

The fact is that Ford and all other parent companies are just going to continue making more and more cross platform cars where 50% plus of all components are interchangeable across brands. Just because one car is assembled in this country or that country wont make any difference to the end product. If you think all cars assembled in the USA are bad and all cars assembled in the UK are better you are going to have a tough time choosing cars in the upcoming years.

We're not talking about where cars are manufactured, this is irrelevant. All large manufactures have their cars and parts manufactured in many different countries which is why saying for example Aston Martin is an American car company is frankly bullshit.

The point that you keep missing is that even though those companies maybe have been mostly left independent during the first few years after Ford bought them is not the way it will stay. Ford, GM, Chrysler haven’t bought up so many European brands just for fun. No its because they can come out with one basic car platform and sell it under multiple badges, markets, and price ranges, even though the car essentials and production costs will be generally the same. Also they will draw on all the talent, designers, and engineers etc. from all these formerly independent brands when designing their new cars.

I'm not missing your point at all, i just disagree

You mean like the VH alluminium chassis that was specifically made for aston martins?

Whether or not cars share parts is also irrelevant: it doesen't make the car any less particular to the country of origin - in general. The companies market the different cars for different markets and bare heritage in mind - heritage from pre-takeover.

Eg before ford takeover the DB7 had the jaguar xj chassis. That doesen't mean the DB7 is a jaguar, even though it's based on one.

[Global Warming]

Hah dude, I don’t know what to say... you keep going back to cars like the DB7?!? That’s a $100,000 car, all Aston Martins are consider by most to be “supercars”!! What is that your day car when your not driving that Zonda in you sig? lol You better hope the Aston Martin stays very exclusive at that price!
If your only argument is that a DB7 or DB9 are a lot better than all American cars even if it is now owned by Ford… I don’t think anyone will argue with you!! LOL

But if we are comparing general car quality by country and want to talk about realistic cars you should be comparing the jag X-Type to a 300 C, etc.

[666fast]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by 666fast No its because they can come out with one basic car platform and sell it under multiple badges GM's #1 problem. Well the new Ford Focus, Mazda 3, and Volvo S40 are all platform cars. Under the skin they are basically the same car; key components in all 3 are identical which greatly reduces production costs. So far it has been successful. This is what the auto world is now and will become for most cars in 5 years or so.. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. are all doing it too. Like I said, the auto world has and is changing a lot! Probably more dramatically than it has in 50 years.

It doesn't always work, hence why Ford and GM's credit was downgraded to junk status.
GM has waaaay to many models in waaaay to many product lines. That is what it really hurting them. Does Pontiac needs to sell a Minivan? No. Does Pontiac need to sell a SUV? No. Does Buick need to sell 3 different versions of the LaCrosse? No. Do GMC and Chevy need to sell the exact same trucks with a different badge? No.
Yet they continue to do it, driving UP the costs of production. Just because they share platforms with each other, doesn't mean it isn't a waste of money.

GM has also dug itself into a hole with the constant incentives and price slashing. Now nobody will look at a GM product unless it's severely discounted.

Badge Engineering will be the death of the American motor industry if it continues. What GM and Ford need to do is come out with new, innovative, stylish products that people actually want. In other words, they need to be good.

Lets face it, the Accord was a huge success because the Taurus was a piece of garbage.

I'm still waiting for GM to build a a truck entirely out of that horrible plastic.

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by 666fast Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by 666fast No its because they can come out with one basic car platform and sell it under multiple badges GM's #1 problem. Well the new Ford Focus, Mazda 3, and Volvo S40 are all platform cars. Under the skin they are basically the same car; key components in all 3 are identical which greatly reduces production costs. So far it has been successful. This is what the auto world is now and will become for most cars in 5 years or so.. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. are all doing it too. Like I said, the auto world has and is changing a lot! Probably more dramatically than it has in 50 years. It doesn't always work, hence why Ford and GM's credit was downgraded to junk status. GM has waaaay to many models in waaaay to many product lines. That is what it really hurting them. Does Pontiac needs to sell a Minivan? No. Does Pontiac need to sell a SUV? No. Does Buick need to sell 3 different versions of the LaCrosse? No. Do GMC and Chevy need to sell the exact same trucks with a different badge? No. Yet they continue to do it, driving UP the costs of production. Just because they share platforms with each other, doesn't mean it isn't a waste of money. GM has also dug itself into a hole with the constant incentives and price slashing. Now nobody will look at a GM product unless it's severely discounted. Badge Engineering will be the death of the American motor industry if it continues. What GM and Ford need to do is come out with new, innovative, stylish products that people actually want. In other words, they need to be good. Lets face it, the Accord was a huge success because the Taurus was a piece of garbage. I'm still waiting for GM to build a a truck entirely out of that horrible plastic.

I agree completely. That has been a problem with USA companies for years. Before mini-vans and SUV-s it was station wagons! Called “Estates” in Europe. Back in the 80s GM had one under every one of its badges, Pontiac, Chevy, Buick, etc.. This is nothing new.

What is different is that the American companies have taken this philosophy worldwide, or at least are just starting to. You can see how it will potentially pay off big for them. As we have seen in this very thread you have people that love Volvo and Jag and HATE ford. Well ford is laughing all the way to the bank over people like that!! Because you can argue that the makers etc. are separate (for now!) but it is a fact that the profits are figured over the whole company.

[ferrarif1fan89]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by T-Bird You have to remember Richard also liked the new Mustang and Cadillac CTS, Clarkson loved the Viper, they said the Corvette was fun but complained about the suspension. They were happy that the Elise was redesigned for the US market And let’s also not forget the GTO. Yes it’s a Holden and yes it’s made in Australia but it has an American corvette engine and Clarkson said "if you are buying any other car besides the GTO in its price range you are dumb and boring!" Or something very close to that lol. And that was the 5.7l GTO they haven't even tested the 6.0 400HP GTO that you can buy here for only 31k!! That’s only around 15,000 pounds!! You can argue over if it’s more of an American car, or more or an Australian car but one thing is for sure, it’s just about the most kick ass thing you will EVER be able to buy for such a low price!!

sorry, but if i were getting something in that price range, i'd like my cars to turn. so my money would go for either a used m3 or an rx8.