Max Mosley threatens to ban B.A.R.

[Max Power]

so does this mean that Ralf gets 8th place at Imola

[dingo]

Fair penalty IMO, will be interesting to see what happens in these 2 races without them
Here is the revised finishing order for San Marino, Ralf still isn't in the points Max Its good to see Webber get some points out of this mess



1 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 62 1:27:41.921 2 10

2 1 Michael Schumacher Ferrari 62 +0.2 secs 13 8

3 10 Alexander Wurz McLaren-Mercedes 62 +27.5 secs 7 6

4 11 Jacques Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas 62 +64.4 secs 11 5

5 16 Jarno Trulli Toyota 62 +70.2 secs 5 4

6 8 Nick Heidfeld Williams-BMW 62 +71.2 secs 8 3

7 7 Mark Webber Williams-BMW 62 +83.2 secs 4 2

8 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi Red Bull Racing 62 +83.7 secs 15 1

9 17 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 62 +95.8 secs 10

10 12 Felipe Massa Sauber-Petronas 61 +1 Lap 18

11 14 David Coulthard Red Bull Racing 61 +1 Lap 14

12 19 Narain Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota 61 +1 Lap 16

13 18 Tiago Monteiro Jordan-Toyota 60 +2 Laps 17

DSQ 3 Jenson Button BAR-Honda 62 +10.4 secs 3

DSQ 4 Takuma Sato BAR-Honda 62 +34.7 secs 6

Ret 21 Christijan Albers Minardi-Cosworth 20 Hydraulics 20

Ret 2 Rubens Barrichello Ferrari 18 Electrical 9

Ret 9 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes 9 Driveshaft 1

Ret 20 Patrick Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth 8 Clutch 19list][/list]

[|Nuno|]

Good, I hope they learn from this.

[jon_s]

I feel for Button. He was expecting the car to be on form over the next few races. I understand that teams fly close to the wind when it comes to rules. However, this is palin stupid. BAR plan on launching an appeal, I have serious doubts as to its success.

Furthermore, the sponsors will be livid that they will miss exposure at the most famous race of the season!

[mindgam3]

Seems like BAR are heading to a civil court to make their appeal

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=32722

[jenkF1]

What are BAR playing at? But still, it was blatently cheating, maybe this illegal ballast fuel tank was behind their recent turn in form.

But FUCK YOU who r slagging of Button! It wasn't anything to do with him. I very very much doubt he new anything about it, usually its just the technical team and the management that would know about such a thing.

Now Button has basically no chance in the championship. Thats bad, cus this year is wide open. :x :x

[dingo]

Originally Posted by jenkF1 But FUCK YOU who r slagging of Button! .......

calm down mate, no need to talk like that to other members :roll:

[Gallardo_lover]

How disappointing... I suppose though, the best developments occur when the rules are pushed to the limtis! Imagine how many other tricks different teams have up their sleeves.

My finals lecturer always told us not to cheat, but if we were going to, we better make sure we didn't get caught! Hectic consequences.... ops:

[|Nuno|]

Just for the record, here's a drawing of the secret fuel tank:

[nthfinity]

This is a statement from Nick Fry, Chief Executive Officer of B.A.R Honda in relation to the ruling of the FIA International Court of Appeal, 5 May 2005: "B.A.R Honda is appalled at the decision of the FIA International Court of Appeal and asserts that the judgement is contrary to all of the evidence heard yesterday. The team proved that it complied with the current regulations and the FIA now acknowledges that the regulations are unclear. "We repeat that at no time did B.A.R Honda run underweight at the San Marino Grand Prix and this was also unchallenged by the FIA. "While the International Court of Appeal rejected the FIA's original accusations of fraud and deception, B.A.R Honda says that this penalty is wholly and grossly disproportionate. "The team is advised by its legal counsel that the judgement is plainly wrong based on the evidence presented and it is currently examining its options."

1030hrs, 6 May 2005, Barcelona, Spain: In the wake of the decision of the FIA’s International Court of Appeal yesterday and having considered the extraordinarily complex legal framework, a summary of the legal position is as follows. B.A.R Honda has looked at all practical ways of immediately challenging the decision. The central issue is one of jurisdiction. Jurisdiction in Europe is governed by European-wide rules, which say that a defendant party has a right to be sued in the territory in which it is based. Upon receiving the best legal advice in all relevant jurisdictions, the conclusion is that nothing can be done to enable the team to race this weekend. B.A.R Honda has considered whether to pursue further action which might enable it to compete at Monaco. On balance, the team has decided that to challenge the sport’s governing body would cause a level of disruption and damage to the sport which would not serve the best interests of everyone involved. B.A.R will be discussing the ramifications of the Court of Appeal verdict with the other teams and manufacturers involved in the sport. The FIA International Court of Appeal in its own judgement was unable to prove that the team acted in bad faith. B.A.R Honda therefore remains unclear as to the basis for such a severe penalty. The team vigorously contests any insinuation that could potentially tarnish its reputation and good record, something that is of fundamental importance to the whole organisation and its partners. In an effort to provide the greatest possible visibility to the outside world of its case, B.A.R Honda today will publish its entire submission to the FIA International Court of Appeal on its website for anyone interested to examine it.

as much as BAR is unwillilng to admit they cheated... its looking like they wont fight the temporary ban.

i have to say, kudos to them for trying to push the rules... but two times in one season seem a little testy :roll:

[caneswell]

The punishment far outwieghs the crime.

On the ITV coverage they mentioned an interview with an ex F1 driver that said every team he worked for cheated in some way. It can't be proven that they actually broke any rules, as the minimum weight measurment didnt specify without fuel. So if they think they may have cheated or the rules are now specifiying without fuel, then banning them from using it in future is a fair punishment. Maybe removing the points they gained from when they alegegedly ran under weight too? It has happened throughout the history of F1, a team finds a loophole in the rules uses it for a few races then it gets banned. 6 wheels, massive fooking fans!

[saadie]

^^ FIA knows better then ITV ... :roll:

and anyway ... if they had given the blueprints fer the 2005 cars with the extra fueltank ... then they prolly wouldnt ahve any problem .. i think ...

[mindgam3]

From what I've been reading recently, the extra 4kg of fuel that is in debate is NECCESARY for the car to run; if the car doesen't have this extra fuel which is an integral part of the fuel system then the car will not run at all as fuel will not get to the engine. Therefore, seeing as the car did not stop and the car was found to be within the 600kg weight limit with the neccesary fuel then clearly BAR did not break the rules.

BAR gave the FIA proof from fuel consumption data at the hearing but the FIA refused to identify it as proof - how can it not be? If they can proof that they never used the extra fuel then they know the minimum weight was never 600kg

Also, the FIA knew about the tank for 2 races before this one - why take action now?

The final verdict from the FIA:
WHEREAS it is NOT POSSIBLE for the Court to find, on the basis of the evidence that it was provided with, that Lucky Strike BAR Honda deliberately committed fraud, their actions at the time of the emptying procedure of the vehicle after the event, and the fact that they did not use their right in accordance with Article 2.4, to address a request for clarification on the rules to the Technical Formula One Department of the FIA, show at the least a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency.

Innocent til proven guilty? Not in the FIA's courts :roll:

Originally Posted by FIA Hearing Giving a new RULING, DECLARES and RULES that the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team failed to comply with Articles 1.9, 4.1, 4.2, 2.6 of the Sporting Regulations and also violates Article 151-c of the International Sporting Code,

Originally Posted by FIA Sporting Regs 1.9 Weight: Is the weight of the carwith the driver, wearing his complete racing apparel, at all times during the event. 4.1 Minimum Weight: The weight of the car must not be less than 605kg during the qualifying practice session and no less than 600kg at all other times during the event. 4.2 Ballast: Ballast can be used provided it is secured in such a way that tools are required for removal. It must be possible to fix seals if deemed neccesary by the FIA technical delegate. 2.6 Duty of Competitor: It is the duty of each Competitor to satisfy the FIA technical delegate and the Stewards of the Meeting that his automobile complies with these regulations in their entirety at all times during an Event.The design of the car, its components and systems shall, with the exception of safety features, demonstrate their compliance with these regulations by means of physical inspection of hardware or materials.No mechanical design may rely upon software inspection as a means of ensuring its compliance.

Definately didnt deserve the punishment they got thats for sure

[coombsie66]

^^ I totally agree, and i bet there were a lot of fuel tank re-designs going on in a other teams around the paddock.
Man some of you guys are so gullabal, as caneswell said, every team is exploiting loopholes as much as they possibly can, you think every other team has nothing to hide, pah this runs far deeper into the F1 power struggle, why did they only investigate buttons fuel tank with an endoscope.
Its all a load of bolloks, BAR proved that they were withing the regulations set, hence the reduction in charge, but the FIA dont want egg on face, so hence the punishment.
Max mosely is a tit.

[mindgam3]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=32771

FIA claiming BAR are throwing the sport into disrepute? :roll:

This is now fucking ridiculous - basically FIA are thinking of throwing BAR out of the Championship completely due to comments by BAR representatives to the press...

Aren't BAR allowed to even have an opinion? Fucking out rage

What about when MS and Barrochello switched places on purpose in 2002 bringing the sport into disripute - didn't see much happening then :roll: