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Old 04-08-2007, 08:23 PM   #76
graywolf624
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If what Igor showed there you consider to be wreslting experiance then I know that much wrestling my self
I didn't say he was good.
In fact I said the opposite "Not to mention neither is exceedingly good at grappling judging by the fight."

That being said, Igor did have one decent wrestling move about 40 secs in. It worked really well but he didnt know how to follow it up.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:26 PM   #77
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Well I think Im bright enough to take a wrestling stance against a wrester and get my hands close enough to his head to throw a punch.

I would definetly not stand upright against someone who I know is a wrestler.
The wrestler isn't going to jar your head with an open hand to get you to lose concentration like he does in a match either.. Those are opponent specific moves.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:26 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
You assume youd have the chance to step back. You say he makes the same mistake dodging a punch... Perhaps you should think about that disparity.


You also say hed make the same mistake witha fake and you wouldnt miss such a fake from a wrestler. The problem with that arguement is, besides that its extremely incongruous.. As standing up the wrestler can use the same tricks on you... The wrestler can also take you down on the mat. So your on almost equal footing standing.. and your screwed if he gets you to the ground.
But this entire thread you assumed that I will make the mistake of falling into the wrestlers traps.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:28 PM   #79
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^No.. I made the assumption you can't avoid the ground. You can match him fake for fake.. but that doesnt change that almost all fights end up on the ground at some point. Someone without grappling training doesnt have ground training. Thats a given.. No other major martial art has anything approaching adequate ground training. A good wrestler will hold his own while standing. A good boxer will get destroyed on the ground. Thats where the tactical advantage lies.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:31 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
^No.. I made the assumption you can't avoid the ground. You can match him fake for fake.. but that doesnt change that almost all fights end up on the ground at some point.
Yes, and I argue that wrestlers arent taught to punch while on the ground.
Or that every wrester is good enough to completly prevent any strikes from the opponent, legs, arms, head buts...
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:34 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
A good wrestler will hold his own while standing. A good boxer will get destroyed on the ground. Thats where the tactical advantage lies.
How?

Isnt it... a good boxer will destroy a man who is not taught to punch while standing?

If elite MMA fighters cant dodge many punches from boxers/strikers what makes you think a wrestler will?

Once again, wrestling drunk guys is a bad example.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:34 PM   #82
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Yes, and I argue that wrestlers arent taught to punch while on the ground.
Or that every wrester is good enough to completly prevent any strikes from the opponent, legs, arms, head buts...
It doesnt matter if they are taught to punch on the ground, not that many martial arts teach this. If you can control the person and have one hand free you can do what ever the hell you want indefinitly.. Punches arent even needed.

I never said every wrestler.. I said a good wrestler.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:37 PM   #83
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Isnt it... a good boxer will destroy a man who is not taught to punch while standing?

If elite MMA fighters cant dodge many punches from boxers/strikers what makes you think a wrestler will?
They dont need to dodge many.. just enough to get in a shot. If elite strikers cant avoid getting taken down and destroyed by wrestlers in MMA until they have grappling training.. how do you expect a straight boxer striker will?

The wrestler isnt going to go toe to toe with the boxer, but if you dont think theres a large number of tactics from standing entirely unrelated to punching or kicking you are going to get your tail kicked sooner or later. You severely underestimate a wrestlers standing ability. IT doesnt involve punches or kicks, but its still extremely effective.... Easily if you had a wrestler at the same level as the boxer in his sport he would be a match on his feet.

Once again, wrestling drunk guys is a bad example.
That comment apparently went over your head.. It was meant to demonstrate I have never in my life but once.. when a drunk guy was involved.. Seen a fight not go to the ground.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:42 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
Yes, and I argue that wrestlers arent taught to punch while on the ground.
Or that every wrester is good enough to completly prevent any strikes from the opponent, legs, arms, head buts...
It doesnt matter if they are taught to punch on the ground, not that many martial arts teach this. If you can control the person and have one hand free you can do what ever the hell you want indefinitly.. Punches arent even needed.

I never said every wrestler.. I said a good wrestler.
And I say a good striker will not allow the fight to go down.

What 90% of bums do doesnt bother me. Or if 90% of the street fights end up that way.

Mirko is an elite striker, and surprisngly most of his fights never even get to the ground.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:44 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
Isnt it... a good boxer will destroy a man who is not taught to punch while standing?

If elite MMA fighters cant dodge many punches from boxers/strikers what makes you think a wrestler will?
They dont need to dodge many.. just enough to get in a shot. If elite strikers cant avoid getting taken down and destroyed by wrestlers in MMA until they have grappling training.. how do you expect a straight boxer striker will?

The wrestler isnt going to go toe to toe with the boxer, but if you dont think theres a large number of tactics from standing entirely unrelated to punching or kicking you are going to get your tail kicked sooner or later. You severely underestimate a wrestlers standing ability. IT doesnt involve punches or kicks, but its still extremely effective.... Easily if you had a wrestler at the same level as the boxer in his sport he would be a match on his feet.

No no mate. I never in my life undersetimate anyone. I've done that and learned from that.

You are just suverly understimating what a good kickboxer is capable of.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:46 PM   #86
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And I say a good striker will not allow the fight to go down.
Your living in a fantasy world.. In an even fight (skill wise) standing (wrestling versus boxing) theres very little chance it'll end on the feet. Even K1 and UFC prove that.. Or do you call them bums? As a result we come to your arguement. The problem with it? Mirko has grappling training so hes a poor arguement. So does just anyone successful in K1 and UFC. The people that didn't lost so bad they went out and received training in it.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:48 PM   #87
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You are just suverly understimating what a good kickboxer is capable of.
No.. Not at all. They are good.. The equal of a wrestler on his feet at mid distance.. advantage goes to the wrestler close in.. to the kick boxer further out. However.. The kick boxer still gets creamed on the ground. Theres several examples of it in k1 and ufc.. let me go find you some.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:54 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
Your living in a fantasy world.. In an even fight (skill wise) standing (wrestling versus boxing) theres very little chance it'll end on the feet. Even K1 and UFC prove that.. Or do you call them bums? As a result we come to your arguement. The problem with it? Mirko has grappling training so hes a poor arguement. So does just anyone successful in K1 and UFC. The people that didn't lost so bad they went out and received training in it.
And I think you do

I hope you realize that K1 is a kickboxing league, maybe you meant pride. There is no wrestling in K1.

I'm just surprised that you think one needs extensive training in wrestling to win.

I bet I can go to a wrestling school/gym and in a week combined with what I already know about striking have enough to beat a good wrestler...

I still think that you are dreaming or something thinking that someone who knows fuck all about any form of strikes is going to covincigly win against someone whose taught to strike.

How does someone who is never trained to punch at all is going to win a fight against a kick boxer or such just baffles me....I really do believe that you are the one dreaming here.

If you take me to the ground Ill still try to punch my way out. You as a wrestler are taught in to wrestle with wrestlers, not someone who is going to throw elbows, to your head or punch you.

How many times you see in UFC that one gets thrown to the ground and still throws a ton of punches on the wrester, whilst the other has prolly as much an idea about wrestiling as myself.


You assuming that I cant do the most basic of wrestling, or handle a wrestler, is like me assuming that you are completly cluless as far as throwing any punch or any kick is concerned.

To me someone who is never going to throw a punch at me is a punching bag, pure and simple.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:57 PM   #89
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Kickboxer appears to get his ass kicked.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:59 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oof92dSuNI
Kickboxer appears to get his ass kicked.
Yea Drij showed you a vid to counter that few posts above.
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