Porsche generic Multimedia

[lakatu]

Wow. Really fascinating post st-anger. I know you are really busy right now so much appreciated. He must be an amazing driver in his own right to be able to beat WR at a rally event. Did I read that right that the aero package costs 26,500 euros? Any idea why that would be so much? Seems rather steep to me.

that´s what IMO is most important – that a tuner get´s parts from PAG directly, because only very very few approved tuners get part from there – quality first…

Is this due to Porsche’s restricting sales to other tuners or is this due to the fact that the tuners opt to get their parts elsewhere?

interesting that he retains the AWD system being that the car is track oriented. Obviously part of the reason is the massive horsepower but he CGT and other cars with similar horsepower get by without AWD.

A 7:20 NS time :shock: . I wonder though what the tires and suspension setup was to get this kind of a time. This website which has some limited Manthey model times http://delobbo.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=897

[st-anger]

...u´re welcome guys - well, u guessed it lakatu - it´s been quite some work to get together and translate everything but i think it´s worth the work only when even just one enthusiast recognizes and is interested to lear more about Olaf Manthey and his work...
he´s definitely on my top3 list and i think i can speak for all ppl involved in motorsport and especially Porsche Motorsport (PM) that Manthey has an extremely high reputation in the business and i know very very litte tuning guys who´re negotiating with Roland Kussmaul about the price of PM performance parts in his office

so this should partly answer your question lakatu, it´s definitely not the case that any tuner will get PM parts directly from the EZW, of course i won´t name any names who don´t get parts there but all i can say is that there´re very few that actually get performance parts from PAG...
it´s not about restriction, it´s about quality and control, u won´t find an official PM part in 750hp overpriced nonsense conversions - i think i´ve posted that somewhere before in "News" that PAG is taking the whole tuning think very serious and some months back we sent out a letter to some tuning companies to warn them that PAG will not accept any responsibility for any cases that might occur especially with the latest Cayenne conversions...
and of course it´s not very good for the quality reputation of Porsche when a 600, 700hp engine has to be serviced every 20k km costing 25k+ € every time...
i know many many details about the whole tuning thing when talking about Porsche tuning as i have very good ties to some tuners and ppl working there - of course i can´t name any details - but hearing all this what´s going on in this business i can only repeat myself - for me there´re only two or three decent tuners for a Porsche and i´d only take my car to them:

RS Tuning - for engine only
Manthey - also engine, but mainly aerodynamics, wheels, suspension and overall setup
Cargraphic - whole exhaust system and also wheels

...to say "forget the rest" is probably a bit too harsh but when someone could proof me wrong with his own experience i´d love to learn more...

the 26k+€ is for the "LeMans" widebody seen at the black M700 from the SA article and is kinda unique as it´s been especially developed at NS and the Ford wind tunnel resulting in significantly lower lift and due to the use of 90% carbon fibre for fenders, underbody, hood, front & rear wing, side skirts, +++ the weight could be reduced by 63!!!kg...
well, u could add another ~14k€ for painting and mounting
kinda silly, he....


lol, and of course it´s from 0 - 200, thx for correting that

[lakatu]

Thanks st-anger for clearing up those issues. I didn’t realize that they were using so much carbon fibre. That explains a lot.

So if I had a Porsche and I wanted my mechanic to install PM parts could I order them through Porsche? I always thought I could but it sounds like you have to know someone to get them based on your comments. Are they then sold only to racing groups and a few tuners? I would guess that since they are high quality parts that the other tuners would like to use them but Porsche won’t sell to them based on the quality issue you mentioned.

[st-anger]

...of course your dealer will get PM parts but for most of them it won´t make sense to buy them at a workshop/dealer or PZ because as u know it requires a skilled hand to install and set up everything, won´t be a problem with a sport clutch or minor stuff like that but for e.g. engine conversions and suspension stuff i´d highly recommend a specialist like one named above...
it´s kinda complicated - other tuners or whoever CAN get PM parts but the key is if they get them from OFFICIAL side with all the background knowledge in addtition...
a tuner "XY" can buy a PM cylinder head elsewhere but without the knowledge how to install and measue it, well, sounds very easy, just buy the part and install it - "wow, i have a PM part installed" - but it´s not like that, so it defintely pays off to be an approved customer like Mantey and Schmirler...

Originally Posted by lakatu Thanks st-anger for clearing up those issues. I didn’t realize that they were using so much carbon fibre. That explains a lot. So if I had a Porsche and I wanted my mechanic to install PM parts could I order them through Porsche? I always thought I could but it sounds like you have to know someone to get them based on your comments. Are they then sold only to racing groups and a few tuners? I would guess that since they are high quality parts that the other tuners would like to use them but Porsche won’t sell to them based on the quality issue you mentioned.

[st-anger]

new season has already begun, pics taken on 18th march 2005, M3GTR already training for 2005 24h race...



and a very nice visitor so soon this year - a Carrera GT...





can´t wait to hit the track myself....

[lakatu]

Thanks st-anger for the insight. It just goes to show you how little I know about these issues. I definitely would have thought that it would be as simple as installing a piston or a camshaft. Glad we have you to explain these things to us .

I can't wait for more indurance races that feature the GT3 RS and Cup cars . Does anyone know if the M3GTR is allowed to run the V8 this year? I think I remember reading that the rules disallowed them.

[Schwalbe]

I have some questions for you st-anger: Do you have any infos or pictures concerning the race prep 996 GT2 behind the black CGT ?

[lakatu]

Finally got some time to read the GT Manthey article. Really excellent article. I found it interesting that his favorite road car is the MKII GT3 because of its perfect balance between track and street. Also interesting that 911 racing cars never use wheels larger than 18”. I wouldn't have guessed that. Funny how sometimes people think that they are making their Porsches handle better by adding larger wheels and tires and yet they are actually doing themselves and their cars a disservice .

[666fast]

Originally Posted by lakatu I can't wait for more indurance races that feature the GT3 RS and Cup cars . Does anyone know if the M3GTR is allowed to run the V8 this year? I think I remember reading that the rules disallowed them.

I believe in the Nurburgring 24H's, they are allowed to run the V8's. I'm not 100% sure though. The Nurburgring 24h is part of the VLN series right St Anger?

BTW, if you want to see more GT3RS and Cup cars, start watching the American LeMans series. The GT2 category is almost exclusive to Porsche! GT3 RS's and GT3 RSR's out the butt. The North American GT3 Cup Series is now a support series to the ALMS. So at many of the ALMS races (not all of them), the Cup race will be the same weekend. Attend one if you can, I highly recommend it! I've had a blast at every ALMS race I've been too.

The Cup race isn't exactly an endurance race, I believe the race last about an hour. The ALMS race lasts anywhere from 4 to 12 hours depending on location.

More info on ALMS here: http://www.americanlemans.com/
I'm not sure what the GT3 Cup website is.

Thanks for taking the time to write all that up and the magazine scans! I've heard of Manthey before, but I never really gave them much attention. I guess it would be because they were never really popular. It seems everytime you turn around, Gemballa or Ruf is in the magazines and not guys like Manthey who should be in magazines.
Thats not to say those companies are bad, but I'm already convinced that Manthey is better.
A Porsche already looks great, no need for cosmetic upgrades when there is more power to be squeezed out! If I had a Porsche and was looking for upgrades, that GT Article alone would convince me that these are the guys to go to!

Coem to think of it, my friend mentioned his boss wanted to spruce up his 996TT. I'll make sure to mention Manthey next time I see him.

[st-anger]

"GT´s" The Greatest Porsche Ever TOP 3...

#3


#2


and of course ... #1


:arrow: places 4 to 50

[mindgam3]

So which tuners do porshce officially, or unofficially sell their parts too?

Eg. RUF build their cars from scratch bascially, even the shells have to be painted by RUF so how do they get them if they're not direct from the factory??

[st-anger]

Heads you Win?

The new 911 Cabriolet is here, but does it deliver a pure 911 driving experience? Stuart Gallagher decides...

[st-anger]

...as said before i won´t tell that much details HOW to get them, WHO get them and who NOT and why...

...and to say it - i´m not very interested in these questions and answers ( don´t get this wrong, it´s not that i don´t want to answer your questions mindgam3 ) because it´s up to them - and i´m talking about the "show car" makers why they get - better said NOT get - the parts from EZW directly, of course there´re other ways to get them as hinted above but what is an IKEA shelf without a manual

i can only repeat myself - for me as a guy who´s into Porsches for "quite some" years now including Porsche Motorsport there´re only one or two guys who "deserve" the name "Porsche Tuner" and this is Schmirler ( RS-Tuning ) and Manthey - period.
...of course now we´re speaking of engine/drivetrain tuning only, so where PM parts are mainly used...

i know that the name Alois Ruf means a lot to many ppl, especially from the states as Alois had been THE man to import and adapt Porsches in history, but this is my personal opinion and i call Ruf a "show car maker" just like Gemballa, TechArt, TTP and all the other one´s i already forgot...

NOTE that this doesn´t mean that these guys´re doing a "bad" job - god knows this is NOT the case - nevertheless i think i have to take away the illusion of some members that Ruf ( or Gemballa, TechArt, .... ) is the best choice for upgrading a Porsche...
...also note that i can say all this - as the core members´ll know i have very very good friends at TechArt - and i definitely wouldn´t say something bad about their work but they also agree that the customers of RS, Manthey, Cargraphic, .... are simply different ppl like the customers TechArt has and its "competitors"...

that said, 666fast, send him to Manthey... 8)

[mindgam3]

I guess that leaves it up to my imagination then

Although rumours I've heard are that many of the porsche family own RUF's themselves which I guess may answer my question?

[lakatu]

Thanks st-anger for the scans. Still surprised that the 928 was third but I guess that is what happens when you poll a general audience. So many other cars deserved this IMO more than the 928. Would love an opportunity to drive a 2.7 RS just to see what everyone is talking about .

On the “tuners” issue, I appreciate st-anger sharing his opinion concerning “tuners”. The easy thing to do was to say nothing and let us go on worshiping Ruf while the real quality shops where being ignored. I had never heard of RS Tuning until st-anger first mentioned them.

I was rather surprised when st-anger first said Ruf wasn’t among the top serious “tuners” but was in the class of Gemballa. Although I had heard some negative things from mechanics concerning Ruf’s pistons for their 3.4L engine that they use to make for their 930 based cars. I also know that they require frequent engine overhauls, at least the older models.

I have to say one thing though in favor of Ruf. IMO if you are a fan of the NS and lightweight Porsches, you have to respect Ruf’s effort with the lightweight narrow-bodied CTR. In its day it just devastated the competition on the NS with a time of 8:16 :shock: . This was achieved in a day were 959 and F40 where posting times of mid eight minutes. I can’t speak to the reliability of the CTR’s engine but the performance, IMO for its day, was outstanding and the emphasis on lightweight construction reminds one of the 2.7 RS. And hey I never get tired of watch that video. The car control that Stefan Roser shows is amazing .