Blu-Ray vs HD DVD

[Jabba]

Yeh but think how big a commercial cinema screen is, and you still wont see any pixels on movies projected onto it, hence its still downscaled rather than "blown up" on transfers to HD.

If you put a 35mm camera picture in a flat bed scanner what resolution would you have to scan at for example to start seeing the "pixels" ?

[Bizi Jones]

what they do is scan the film

Philips eventually evolved the FDL-60 into the FDL 90 (1989)/ Quadra (1993). In 1996 Philips working with Kodak introduced the Spirit1 DataCine (SDC 2000), which was capable of scanning the film image at HDTV resolutions and approaching 2K (1920 Luminance and 960 Chrominace RGB) x 1556 RGB. With the data option the Spirit DataCine can be used as a motion picture film scanner outputting 2K DPX data files as 2048 x 1556 RGB. In 2000 Philips introduced the Shadow Telecine (STE) this is a low cost version of the Spirit, with no Kodak parts. The Spirit1 DataCine, Cintel's C-Reality and ITK's Millennium opened the door to the technology of digital intermediates wherein telecine coloring tools were not just for video outputs, but could now be used for high-resolution data that would later be recorded back out to film.[3]The Grass Valley Spirit 4k (2004) replaced the Spirit 1 Datacine and uses both 2K and 4k line array CCDs.

well above HD res...

[dutchmasterflex]

Originally Posted by Jabba Yeh but think how big a commercial cinema screen is, and you still wont see any pixels on movies projected onto it, hence its still downscaled rather than "blown up" on transfers to HD. If you put a 35mm camera picture in a flat bed scanner what resolution would you have to scan at for example to start seeing the "pixels" ?

When you sit in the front row at the theater the picture doesnt exactly look sharp... but definitely not grainy or noisy.

Not to sure at exactly what resolution I started getting noise when scanning 35mm film, but at 1920x1080 you definitely start to get some grain/noise. Although that might have been some dust on the negative.

Either way, it's definitely a lot of hard work that goes into remastering these old movies.

I was real surprised with the Blazing Saddles 720p rip...

[Jabba]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Not to sure at exactly what resolution I started getting noise when scanning 35mm film, but at 1920x1080 you definitely start to get some grain/noise. Although that might have been some dust on the negative.

Yep, grain and noise is another ball game from pixels, in fact I quite like grain on some movies, it gives them more "feel" but this is now going to get like the vinal vs CD debate

[Bizi Jones]

Originally Posted by ae86_16v Originally Posted by Max Power ^^lol, ppl at blu-ray boards are planning the same shit... Won't it be funny if Amazon was setting all of this up!

the date for their "Fight for Blu-ray is May 27th, buy an Extra Disc Day

so when both formats go belly up and are replaced by Holographic disc or equivalent, a lot of ppl are gonna be stuck with a boat load of obsolete media

[Bizi Jones]

Originally Posted by Jabba OK, I will bash the blu ray version of T2 on two peoples opinions, a few facts and some hard evidence

have u tried the The THX Optimizer on the T2 disk

[Jabba]

Originally Posted by Bizi Jones Originally Posted by Jabba OK, I will bash the blu ray version of T2 on two peoples opinions, a few facts and some hard evidence have u tried the The THX Optimizer on the T2 disk

Of course, but that aint gonna make those defects vanish, as I said, the fantastic four on blu ray and most of my other stuff looks breath taking.

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by Jabba Originally Posted by Bizi Jones Well the great thing about film is that it's essentially always been the same material so the resolution of 35mm film thirty years ago is basically the same as 35mm film used today. You beat me to it

Correct, they can transfer it to whatever resolution they want. They could probably blow it up to 2560x1600 and it will still look crystal clear. There is no pixel equivalent of film.

Originally Posted by Bizi Jones Originally Posted by ae86_16v Originally Posted by Max Power ^^lol, ppl at blu-ray boards are planning the same shit... Won't it be funny if Amazon was setting all of this up! the date for their "Fight for Blu-ray is May 27th, buy an Extra Disc Day so when both formats go belly up and are replaced by Holographic disc or equivalent, a lot of ppl are gonna be stuck with a boat load of obsolete media

There was an editorial the other day about that. Saying that they should have got together and made one format because the longer this "war" drags on the less time these companies will get to reap the benefits. Within another 10 years or so, we will have pretty much moved onto another medium.

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by RC45 There is one marketing advantage HD-DVD is using that the Blu-Ray executives seem to have completely missed - is existing DVD's. ALmost every DVD you rent these days includes at least 2 or 3 previews that BLAST the fact out there that it is also soon (if not already) available on HD-DVD - and that pretty soon all DVD movies will be "future proofed" by being released as a DVD/HD-DVD combo set. This means that the clueless masses are being bombarded with HD-DVD propoganda everytime they rent a DVD. And the Blu-Ray marketing bafoons are asleep at the wheel... It seems the only place I have seen any Blu-Ray commercials.... is on other Blu-Ray titles.. DOH... what stupid fucking idiots these marketing folks are. :roll:

You know what I just realized. It might be more of a legal matter because HD-DVD is officially sponsored by the DVD Forum, so it might be that Blu-Ray can't use any linkage to DVD without the permission of the Forum. Maybe, I don't know.

[Bizi Jones]

PS3's 1.8 firmware update...

Been thinking a bit about what the 1.8 update means in regards to both 360 and HD-DVD wars. This update may have the biggest most lasting impact on everyone involved in the next gen "wars"..some of it's obvious but wanted to get it written down somewhere anyway. Long ... but here is why I think it's a game changer both above and below the surface... 360 One of the points being used against the PS3 is the game quantity (not quality) vs the 360. With this update they have struck a major blow against the 360... Upscaling Ramifications 1. The PS2 libary is massive and still has more new games being released than any of the next gen consoles. i) All of a sudden upgrading sooner to the PS3 just became *significantly* more attractive to existing PS2 users due to upscaling. GOWII upscaled - hell yes. Only on PS3. ii) PS2 users upgrading to next gen have even less reasons to consider the 360. None really. It has seriously neutralized the only advantage/draw the 360 had over even the PS2 (that's TWO) never mind the PS3. Next gen graphics. The chances of those people now upgrading to the 360 and not the PS3 has gone to about < .1%. And that's before considering the DVD upscaling as well. New console users deciding are in a slightly different but a remarkably similar place to existing PS2 users. The libary size advantage of the 360 over the PS3 has been seriously damaged with this update. iii) Now that the graphics advantage/draw is gone the 360 looks even more like a xbox 1.5 with it's DVD technology. Less than 1.5 really to consumers. $500 bucks for what? Only PS3 is really next gen now - plus adding value for exisiting product library. iv) 360 games are short in comparison to other consoles because they went with DVD for hi-def content. Therefore PS2 games are much better value since they will have now have "good enough" graphics to match the 360 plus much longer gameplay and....360 really hobbled themselves with DVD. v) PS2 games are cheaper than next gen games as well..and vi) Yes even the Wii, 360 and PS3 will be effected by point v)...but it's a transition to the PS3 - not the others. Over the medium to long run they lose..would even expect a spike in PS2 software sales as a harbringer of things to come. viii) It's a wierd psychological barrier - but there are PS2 games I would now go and buy that I wouldn't have previously. Why? Because they now qualify as being next gen enough. IOW they now meet my expectation of what's "allowed" on the next gen PS3 - I don't think I will be alone in thinking that way. The BC was important in our initial decision but the upscaling brings a huge library forward now.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Yeah I'm aware film is different, but I thought they are still "blowing up" the image from the film negatives aren't they? What film format(mm) are movies like T2 usually shot with?

Think of it this way - the same reel of film can be used for a small 10ft screen, a large movei 60ft screen or a 180ft drive in theatre screen.

Its just the projector lense that changes, yet the picture always look awesome.

Thats the perfection of emulsion film - which is why on one hand I am very sad that film stills are dead and never again will "regular folks" get to experience good 35mm film shooting, developing and enjoyment.

Doesn't matter what anyone says - a digital camera will never capture the true essence of negative/emulsion processing.

[dutchmasterflex]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Yeah I'm aware film is different, but I thought they are still "blowing up" the image from the film negatives aren't they? What film format(mm) are movies like T2 usually shot with? Think of it this way - the same reel of film can be used for a small 10ft screen, a large movei 60ft screen or a 180ft drive in theatre screen. Its just the projector lense that changes, yet the picture always look awesome. Thats the perfection of emulsion film - which is why on one hand I am very sad that film stills are dead and never again will "regular folks" get to experience good 35mm film shooting, developing and enjoyment. Doesn't matter what anyone says - a digital camera will never capture the true essence of negative/emulsion processing.

Yeah I'm fully aware of how awesome it is to work with film. But for the regular folks, as today's market shows, they dont want deal with film anymore. Only the enthusiasts and pro's still work with big format film.

Still you can only enlarge a 35mm negative to a certain point before you start to get grain and loss of sharpness. Which is why the pros use big format film for large prints.

And never say never

[ae86_16v]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/30...ons-a-success/

Originally Posted by Engadget The recent rebates from Toshiba on stand alone HD DVD players has gotten us pretty excited, and it seems we're not the only ones. Toshiba is claiming that "player sales are up 5-10 times higher than before" and at least the one retailer that shares its data confirms this. In fact over the weekend the HD-A2 was rated the number 1 selling DVD player on Amazon -- no, not just in the HD category, but in all DVD players. While this is great and all, we're not sure how this is going to affect the overall outcome of the format war, but one thing is for sure, this holiday season is going to be very interesting for HD fans.

In reference to the Father's Day $100 rebate as well as the 5 Free Movies.

[Bizi Jones]

can u say fire sale...think of the losses they must be incurring with these promos...and no 'real' sales to show for it...

from the Digital Bits (Bill Hunt writes)

How are all those high-def titles selling? Let's see what Nielsen VideoScan says: As of 5/20, Blu-ray leads HD-DVD in overall software sales, 57% to 43% since both formats launched. The more recent trends are more lopsided: Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 67% to 33% year-to-date for 2007. That's a 2 to 1 margin, DESPITE the fact that HD-DVD claims to have sold many more actual stand-alone players than Blu-ray Disc.

How about the most recent sales numbers? Okay... let's consider 5/22, when Disney debuted both Pirates of the Caribbean films on Blu-ray against Warner's dual Matrix box sets on HD-DVD. According to Home Media: "The two “Pirates” films sold a combined total of nearly 47,000 units, while the higher-priced “Matrix” sets sold about 13,900 units." So more people purchased BOTH Pirates BDs than purchased any Matrix box set - even the cheaper one. Warner's recent The Departed provides another case in point. By their own admission, the studio sold 58,300 copies on Blu-ray and just 35,300 on HD-DVD.

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by Gizmodo Whether it is lower production costs or a new need to compete seriously with Toshiba's HD DVD camp, Sony has sliced $100 off of its original pricing for the BDP-S300 Blu-ray player, to a list price of $499. That's still high given the fact that a) the PS3 lists for just $100 more and offers Blu-ray playback and a lot of extra functionality and b) Toshiba's $399 HD-A2 HD DVD player is easy to find for under $300. Is this enough of a price break, keeping with Sony's traditional "brand premium"? Or will Sony continue to pursue Toshiba down below the hard deck, where stakes are high and profit margins are low? Will Sony ride into the danger zone, so to speak? We'll certainly know by Christmas. – Wilson Rothman

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/price-war...500-265562.php