Opel Signum 3.0 V6 CDTI for 5 days

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Besides the fact that I adressed to the performance factor of diesels, TT totally went overboard and put down a lot of "facts" that were simply were false.

And who the fuck made you the JW police?

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 I wouldn't expect a redneck from Texas to pin-point any nuance whatsoever,

Do you even know the meaning of redneck? It actually has a far more international connotation vs the one you are thinking of... and I will gladly be considered a rooinek...

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 but to get back at what I asked you, how's this any different from the Clarkson C6 review you fucking whined pages about ? Riddled with prejudice, uninformed to boot.

I don't know - how is it different? You seem to know all... :roll:

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 But on sheer cold numbers todays diesels can keep up with most petrol engines, with better fuel mileage to boot. And for 90-95% of the people that's enough.

Sheer cold numbers? Since when does one race and compare by "sheer cold numbers" - unless you are poser, bench racer or ricer?

[LotusGT1]

Originally Posted by RC45 And who the fuck made you the JW police?

This is a fucking discussion forum, where people DISCUSS with each other. Go cry in a fucking corner if you can't handle that :roll:

Originally Posted by RC45 Do you even know the meaning of redneck? It actually has a far more international connotation vs the one you are thinking of... and I will gladly be considered a rooinek...

red·neck ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdnk)

n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

I know where it originated from, however it's quite clear what I mean by it, isn't it ?

http://www.answers.com/topic/redneck

Originally Posted by RC45 I don't know - how is it different? You seem to know all... :roll:

You really are not capable of giving normal answers, do you ? How is TT's review fun and refreshing, while the C6 review was biased and full with wrong information ? Same shit, different day.

Originally Posted by RC45 Sheer cold numbers? Since when does one race and compare by "sheer cold numbers" - unless you are poser, bench racer or ricer?

Races go by who's the fastest, so who puts down the best numbers. Has nothing to do with posers, bench racers or ricers, in fact, it's the opposite.

[stradale]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Originally Posted by stradale Last remark to the stats LotusGT1 posted: I'm missing the part where it says 320i: NA, 320d: FI. If diesel engines don't receive help with breathing, they're nowhere. True, but the point still stands. I know and agree with you when you say diesels can't match petrol engines in certain aspects, especially noise and rev-band. But on sheer cold numbers todays diesels can keep up with most petrol engines, with better fuel mileage to boot. And for 90-95% of the people that's enough.

I didn't dispute any of that. In fact, I mentioned it myself. But I was under the impression that this was a place where "sheer cold numbers" were all but what really mattered about cars. Those numbers say fuck all about what a car feels like when driving it. Leave the cold numbers to consumer organisations who are the seeing eye dogs for the automotively underdeveloped who want to know what the best sensible choice for a family car is.

By the way, if you read TT's post carefully he never said diesels are crap because they are slow. He thinks diesels are crap because of the reasons you and I both agreed diesels lack in comparison with petrol engines. Apparently we all weigh those disadvantages differently to form the final opinion.

The problem is that not everyone wants or is able to afford two cars to cover the whole spectrum of driving needs. With 90% of the public I can understand why they would choose a diesel, but I can't understand why anyone on here would. There's always a viable alternative for a diesel car if driving really matters to you. For instance, I would never ever buy a new 320d. Instead, I would rather buy a second hand 325i or 330i and use the advantage in purchase price and road tax to cover for the extra fuel costs. I would be infintely more happy for the same amount of money.

[LotusGT1]

I understand what you're saying, and we're probably agreeing in the end, but I'm sorry, but this part is hardly true, in fact, it's just BS. And todays diesels don't vibrate or smell anymore, give or take very few exceptions...
And if you have to make a lot of kilometers a year, costwise you don't always have a choice.

The bottom line, as somebody else said on another forum is that the diesel engine is a very simple and old concept.. ppl always attack american V8 saying they are simple engines and not modern at all.. well, the diesel engine is worst.. the fact is that the car industry, to make all the ppl wanting to save on fuel happy, invested billions to develop it and try to hide all it's downsides, trying to make it seem like a petrol unit. Wasted money and time! If the same amount of money would have been invested in petrol engines, by now your regular hot hatch would easily cruise at 350 km/h, using of course 1 liter every 100 km! no shit, the diesel engine is the worst thing happened in the car industry history! Don't be fooled, NEVER buy one!

And that was what I was getting at in the first place...

[topgeartom]

Listen, im not wanting to get into this debate, and do actually dislike diesels intensly myself, howerever, RC, you are dieing on your arse, give up now. Lotus is putting forward such credible arguments that you cant even reply back to them with reasoned and adult points, you sound like a 5 year old who has just been defeated in an argument and so resorts to saying "yeah i know you are, but what am I" - or similar.

I dont want to get involved, but take this as a view from an aoutsider looking in - give up now, your fucked.

[dingo]

LOL......tom it sure looks like your getting invlolved with comments like that Thats not saying I disagree with you though........

[stradale]

Looks like Tom really knows how to light RC's fuse. "Give it up, you're fucked" in combination with credible, logical arguments (more so if they have been put forward by Lotus) have the effect a red flag has on a mad bull.

I'll be watching this from a safe distance...

[topgeartom]

Like i say, im not trying to get involved, i just think RC is wasting his time trying to go on. Lotus has put forward such reasonable arguments, he seems to have all bases covered. I for one would like to see how RC is going to argue his way out.

[TT]

I am back and what the fuck happened in here?

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 There's nothing wrong with diesels, the torque is great, they don't sound as bad as they used to, they DON'T vibrate, don't smell anymore and for commuting it's the perfect engine. Drive a BMW 330d and talk again. The PSA HDI, ditto. Diesel drivetrains are perfect for 95% of the people. The fact that this Signum might be a bad example, doesn't mean every diesel engine sucks. The only application diesels are less suited for are the very sportive drivers, who misses the wider power band and the slightly worse throttle response. LOL, check the specs for the new E90 3-series: BMW 320i (Petrol) Engine size: 2-litre Power: 110 kW at 6 200 r/min Torque: 200 Nm at 3 600 r/min 0-100 km/h: 9.0 seconds Top speed: 220 km/h Fuel consumption (EU combined cycle): 7.4 litres/100km BMW 320d (diesel) Engine size: 2-litre Power: 120 kW Torque: 340 Nm at 2 000 r/min 0-100 km/h: 8.3 seconds Top speed: 225 km/h Fuel consumption (EU combined cycle): 5.7 litres/100km Todays diesels can match their petrol counterparts. With all due respect TT, Now, the engine. Like most of us, I asbolutely hate diesels! I am lucky to live in a country where they are kinda rare, but their quota is rasing Anyway, diesel engine, even 2005 ones, are utter CRAP! People buy them because they want to save money on fuel, PERIOD! if somebody tries to tell you a diesel engine isn't so bad, he is lying! NOBODY can like a diesel engine! I don't want to sound dumb or naif, but definitely, the only positive feature a diesel engine has is the fact even a big 3 liters one can average 7 liters / 100 even if driven like you drive a rental car for 1000 km. Nothing else. It is still noisy (I know BMW and Merc ones are better, but still crap), it smells like shit, it vibrates, its powerband is still short. The bottom line, as somebody else said on another forum is that the diesel engine is a very simple and old concept.. ppl always attack american V8 saying they are simple engines and not modern at all.. well, the diesel engine is worst.. the fact is that the car industry, to make all the ppl wanting to save on fuel happy, invested billions to develop it and try to hide all it's downsides, trying to make it seem like a petrol unit. Wasted money and time! If the same amount of money would have been invested in petrol engines, by now your regular hot hatch would easily cruise at 350 km/h, using of course 1 liter every 100 km! no shit, the diesel engine is the worst thing happened in the car industry history! Don't be fooled, NEVER buy one! This part sounds like it was written by a 6 year old being as uninformed as they come. Opinion is all fine, but most of what has been written here is BS. The last two paragraphs are downright hilarious. Petrol engines will never ever reach the same level of efficiency as diesel engines. Petrol engines have more than a 30 year lead in development time, you're simply not realistic. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...8/article.html

I never said they can't match petrol engines, sfter so many millions invested, they managed to do so, but the diesel engine is still the same old shit.. like gold plated to make it appear what it isn't
The diesel is maybe faster or as fast as a petrol one, but no real car fanatic would pic it over the latter.. only if the vallet is more important maybe :roll:

Of course I went a bit too far, I know the Opel V6 isn't the best one out there, but like others said, there are good cars (engines) and diesel ones.. different thing for different ppl I guess

Oh yes, after doing the same road with my car the other day, I can tell you it felt quite slower compared to that orrible Signum, and still, I would never trade my car for a faster oil burner

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Originally Posted by RC45 And who the fuck made you the JW police? This is a fucking discussion forum, where people DISCUSS with each other. Go cry in a fucking corner if you can't handle that :roll:

Not going anywhere. You attacked TT because he derided diesels - which is in fact deserved. They are noisy, dirty and unsuited to performnce driving in their current forms. They simply serve to sell cheap cras - or to lower consumption on expensive cars.

Period.

If you are discussing work vehicles that haul loads this is a different story.

Clearly the car TT tested was not a heavy duty truck.

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Originally Posted by RC45 Do you even know the meaning of redneck? It actually has a far more international connotation vs the one you are thinking of... and I will gladly be considered a rooinek... red·neck ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdnk) n. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States. A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude. I know where it originated from, however it's quite clear what I mean by it, isn't it ? http://www.answers.com/topic/redneck

And here you thought you knew everthing. However you are simply a loud mouthed twit.

Don't for one second imagine that you have intellectual superiority over anyone. You don't now it all - or even remotely know a little of what people think say or mean.

Historical enmity between Afrikaans and English-speaking whites has given way to more amiable banter or rivalry. Afrikaners refer to an English speaker as a soutpiel or 'salt dick', on account of his divided loyalties: one foot in Africa; the other in England; and his genitals in the sea. A less rude and perhaps more common soubriquet was rooinek or 'red neck' referring to the sunburn of the recent immigrant. Similarly English speakers have long made 'Van Der Merwe' jokes about Afrikaners (who they sometimes refer to as "Dutchmen"), and who they regard as stupid and philistine. This historic rivalry between English and Afrikaans speaking whites may be coming to an end due to political considerations in post-apartheid South Africa.

So - in this vein I welcome the term red neck - as I am one, an english speaking ex-South African.

With regard to me being from the a white rural laboring class in the southern United States having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude - it seems you are wrong again.

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Originally Posted by RC45 I don't know - how is it different? You seem to know all... :roll: You really are not capable of giving normal answers, do you ? How is TT's review fun and refreshing, while the C6 review was biased and full with wrong information ? Same shit, different day.

Simply put - the C6 review was wrong - and if you turn around and read his (JC's) written article, he says the opposite, almost praising it for what it did.

TT on the other hand, drove a diesel sedan, didn't ike it - and then provided his opinion as to why he thinks it is the case.

Now he may have misquoted the "nerd info" behind the scenes - but who cares - the car sucked - as do mosat every diesel car.

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Originally Posted by RC45 Sheer cold numbers? Since when does one race and compare by "sheer cold numbers" - unless you are poser, bench racer or ricer? Races go by who's the fastest, so who puts down the best numbers. Has nothing to do with posers, bench racers or ricers, in fact, it's the opposite.

Actually - you are wrong. Races are not won on the dyno, they are won o the track - where all the pieces come together, or not.

Why do you think "magazine racers" and "bench racers" are made fun of? Because they quote numbers as if the numbers win the race - they don't, never have - and never will.

Originally Posted by topgeartom Listen, im not wanting to get into this debate, and do actually dislike diesels intensly myself, howerever, RC, you are dieing on your arse, give up now. Lotus is putting forward such credible arguments that you cant even reply back to them with reasoned and adult points, you sound like a 5 year old who has just been defeated in an argument and so resorts to saying "yeah i know you are, but what am I" - or similar. I dont want to get involved, but take this as a view from an aoutsider looking in - give up now, your fucked.

Tommy boy.. - I like you an all - but really...

Dieing on my arse? Lotus just hates me so much he is easy to set off. I am correct on every one of my points... Lotus has put forth no credible argument - he is simply yelling that diesels are not bad look at the numbers.

And we have a perfect example, where, it does'nt matter about the numbers - TT tried one and it sucked.

If diesels are the answer, then F1 would not be racing with petrol.

[topgeartom]

i just think that you are now turning this into a preformance debate in order to win the argument. A Vauxhall Sigum was never intended to be a fast and performance car, so i dont know why you are banging on about diesels being no good for performance - they arent designed to be.

You just sounded so pathetic when you tried to reply to lotus's point about the C6 review, it was like he had you in the corner with a watertight point, so you had to resort to 5 year old remarks to get out of it.

Anyway, im staying the fuk out of it. Diesel<Petrol That is my view.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by topgeartom i just think that you are now turning this into a preformance debate in order to win the argument. A Vauxhall Sigum was never intended to be a fast and performance car, so i dont know why you are banging on about diesels being no good for performance - they arent designed to be. You just sounded so pathetic when you tried to reply to lotus's point about the C6 review, it was like he had you in the corner with a watertight point, so you had to resort to 5 year old remarks to get out of it. Anyway, im staying the fuk out of it. Diesel<Petrol That is my view.

There is no argument to win. You don't see Lotus trying to shove his dick down other peoples throats that agree with TT...

And what 5 year old remark chum?

I think the main problem is that many folks here are in the 15 to 25 age group - that sometimes feels a need to be overly adult in order to demonstrate and prove "adulthood".

Sometimes reading things as they appear can go a long way towards reducing conflict confusion and anger.

The bottomline is that TT tested a car and did not like it.

Period.

His opinions are just that - and his thougth on diesels matches many peoples thoughts. And while the diesels may make the boffins get all horny, in reality they are noisy, dirty and really not that much better than their petrol counter parts - mosty because of fuel prices.

If you want fuel efficiency, then hybrids are the way to go.

Dieselshave just been repackaged to try appeal to peoples pocket books.

[topgeartom]

I think the main problem is that many folks here are in the 15 to 25 age group - that sometimes feels a need to be overly adult in order to demonstrate and prove "adulthood".

Do you need a tissue? your dribbling shit again.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by topgeartom I think the main problem is that many folks here are in the 15 to 25 age group - that sometimes feels a need to be overly adult in order to demonstrate and prove "adulthood". Do you need a tissue? your dribbling shit again.

There it is again.

See - you people are so uptight.

I have a serious doubt that most of you folks act this way in real life. All judgemental and superior like.

[LotusGT1]

Aye RC, you are a funny guy....I don't hate you, but your way of thinking is clearly pathetic at times.

Not going anywhere. You attacked TT because he derided diesels - which is in fact deserved. They are noisy, dirty and unsuited to performnce driving in their current forms. They simply serve to sell cheap cras - or to lower consumption on expensive cars.

Period.

If you are discussing work vehicles that haul loads this is a different story.

Clearly the car TT tested was not a heavy duty truck.

I never attacked TT, I simply stated he was wrong, and he is. Current diesels are NOT more noisy or smellier than their petrol counterparts, give or take very few bad examples. It's not up to you to decide if it's not going anywhere or not. LOL, even TT admitted he went over the top with part of his story. I even adressed to the fact diesels are less suited for performance oriented people. So what is your fucking point ?

You should realise one day that your opinion is not equal to facts, as you supposedly think. For a 36-year old that's quite pathetic behaviour...

And here you thought you knew everthing. However you are simply a loud mouthed twit.

Don't for one second imagine that you have intellectual superiority over anyone. You don't now it all - or even remotely know a little of what people think say or mean.

Hahaha...you make assumptions you can't back up. I don't think I have intellectual superiority over anyone you idiot. Never claimed so either.

I think I have a fair grasp of what the term redneck means, and I give a flying fuck what your vein about it is. Never put words in my mouth, you know damn well what I meant. And you haven't provided anything to make me think otherwise...

Simply put - the C6 review was wrong - and if you turn around and read his (JC's) written article, he says the opposite, almost praising it for what it did.

TT on the other hand, drove a diesel sedan, didn't ike it - and then provided his opinion as to why he thinks it is the case.

Now he may have misquoted the "nerd info" behind the scenes - but who cares - the car sucked - as do mosat every diesel car.

Simply put, the C6 review was wrong ?? Ahahahahhaha. TG is just as opinionated as TT was, only this time you actually liked what was said. Don't BS any further, and for crying out loud, get your head out of your arse, and come with some actual facts...

Dieing on my arse? Lotus just hates me so much he is easy to set off. Smile I am correct on every one of my points... Lotus has put forth no credible argument - he is simply yelling that diesels are not bad look at the numbers.

And we have a perfect example, where, it does'nt matter about the numbers - TT tried one and it sucked.

If diesels are the answer, then F1 would not be racing with petrol.

You have a poor way with words if that's your grasp of my first post. You can't be correct on your points, you didn't make any...

RC, I give rats ass about your perogative on me, your 15-25 analyses (creative, I have to say), but open your fucking eyes...

Tsskk, it's like talking to a brick wall....