Random Questions for XBOX 360 users

[ViperASR]

I like PGR3, its much better than NFS although not as good as Forza, which in my opinion is a better game than GT4

[TNT]

Originally Posted by ViperASR I like PGR3, its much better than NFS although not as good as Forza, which in my opinion is a better game than GT4

agreed and i am waiting for the new Forza in Feb.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by TopGearNL Originally Posted by RC45 Note that these downloads don't make the game any less sucky. LOL Thats why I don't have one

The dumbest purchase I ever made.. XBox360.

No - really, one of the only reason we kept it around is it still supports Forza

Originally Posted by ViperASR I like PGR3, its much better than NFS although not as good as Forza, which in my opinion is a better game than GT4

PGR3 is great in a novel sort of way - the novelty wares off once you have unlocked everything.

Forza is not "better" than GT4, it is just different. It doesn't look as good, or have as good replay system, or as good multi player.. but if you like to smash into other people to win a race, then yes - the damage model can help keep things equal... but the damage model is so far removed from real life, it may as well not be there at all.

Forza2 has a lot to deliver, and it would seem it is going fall just as far short of expectaitons as GT4 fell short of post GT3 expectations.

I regret being an early XBox360 adopter.. which is why PS3 will need some fatastic titles to get my sale.

[TopGearNL]

The dumbest purchase I ever made.. XBox360.

WOW that coming from you Ill definately not buy one! :shock:

[RC45]

Originally Posted by TopGearNL The dumbest purchase I ever made.. XBox360. WOW that coming from you Ill definately not buy one! :shock:

Yeah - if you are a sports game fan, or into console FPS titles then you will love the X360... but for a non-arcade driving game fan it's not really worth it IMHO.

PGR3 could have been fantastic had there been a proper replay systema and an way to get your pictures out fo photo mode to the PC easily.

My concern is that these same shortcomings will hamper Forza2.

I mean what makes GT3/GT4 and even TT on the PS2 so good is great graphics, pretty good simulaiton and great controllers - combined with pretty good replay system and very clever photo mode.

Forza never met the hype in all the areas it was supposed to - lets hope Forza2 delivers.

[TNT]

replys don't make a game sorry RC, and the physics on GT4 are junk, geta 700hp rwd car no traction or skid control and mass the gas mid corner and what does it do..... understeer. the photo mode i will agree with its harder to get your photos out. But the graphics are important and PGR and GT are eqaul in most areas. But gameplay and multiplayer is all Forza and PGR.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by TNT replys don't make a game sorry RC, and the physics on GT4 are junk, geta 700hp rwd car no traction or skid control and mass the gas mid corner and what does it do..... understeer. the photo mode i will agree with its harder to get your photos out. But the graphics are important and PGR and GT are eqaul in most areas. But gameplay and multiplayer is all Forza and PGR.

Junk?

The physics in GT4 are 1000x closer to reality than PGR3.

Last I checked a high hp car with no traction or skid control mid corner would oversteer if you applied throttle.. not understeer.

PGR3 and GT4 are not quite equals.

Game play on PGR3 is really no better than PGR2 which is an arcade game.

Forza gets a score of zero in the reality department simply because you are limited to using a consloe hand controller or that crappy german force feedback Fanatech wheel.

The fact that I was able to get Forza on the XBox360 and can use the Logitech Forcefeedback wheel has kept the Xbox360 around a bit longer.

On paper you amy think Forza is "more real' than GT4, but it's on;y cause it feels the way you think it would feel if was real.

But it's not.

I have gone back to back doing test of a Caterham Superlight R in real life and then compared that to the the Caterham in GT4 and Enthusia and they are pretty damnn close...

You know why? Because I was able to use a decent wheel and shifter. Thats what makes the difference.

And thats why when I hear of people saying "X Game" is more real that "Y game" only to see they dont have comparable control mechanisms.. I wonder..

[fabro_s]

Hey RC what are your predictions with Forza 2 and Gran Turismo 5???

Do you have good expectations with forza 2??

[TNT]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by TNT replys don't make a game sorry RC, and the physics on GT4 are junk, geta 700hp rwd car no traction or skid control and mass the gas mid corner and what does it do..... understeer. the photo mode i will agree with its harder to get your photos out. But the graphics are important and PGR and GT are eqaul in most areas. But gameplay and multiplayer is all Forza and PGR. Junk? The physics in GT4 are 1000x closer to reality than PGR3. Last I checked a high hp car with no traction or skid control mid corner would oversteer if you applied throttle.. not understeer. PGR3 and GT4 are not quite equals. Game play on PGR3 is really no better than PGR2 which is an arcade game. Forza gets a score of zero in the reality department simply because you are limited to using a consloe hand controller or that crappy german force feedback Fanatech wheel. The fact that I was able to get Forza on the XBox360 and can use the Logitech Forcefeedback wheel has kept the Xbox360 around a bit longer. On paper you amy think Forza is "more real' than GT4, but it's on;y cause it feels the way you think it would feel if was real. But it's not. I have gone back to back doing test of a Caterham Superlight R in real life and then compared that to the the Caterham in GT4 and Enthusia and they are pretty damnn close... You know why? Because I was able to use a decent wheel and shifter. Thats what makes the difference. And thats why when I hear of people saying "X Game" is more real that "Y game" only to see they dont have comparable control mechanisms.. I wonder..

I agree with you on the using a wheel over a controller. But in most cases when i was playing GT4 is would not behave like a normal car. and since when are you not able to do a burnout/donut/drift/spin in a high horsepower car? the rest of the physics are on par or better the PGR, but when it comes to "reckless" driving GT4 is lacking.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by fabro_s Hey RC what are your predictions with Forza 2 and Gran Turismo 5??? Do you have good expectations with forza 2??

I so want Forza2 to be the game to set thigns right for the XBox360... but with Microsoft refusing to support standard USB devices for controlling and refusing to make a deal to get true ForceFeedback support in their crap I am not hopeful.

Forza2 promises so much that needs a proper gated shifter and clutch pedal.. but I think its going to fall short.

GT5 has so much to overcome to make up for the grap that was sold to us as GT3.5... again, I am not that hopeful.

The saddest of all is that all the while the PC is the platform to support great games and the best you get is GTR, GTR2, GTL etc - and they have mediocre atmosphere surrounding their supposedly great physics engines.

I wonder if the developers these days have the power to keept the marketing clowns out of the titles long enough to deliver what we have been promised.

[nthfinity]

GT4's throttle position isn't progressive enough

GT4's steering should be less lock, as full lock in a real car is a conciderably tighter turn

GT4's engine sounds = poooooh

GT4's quantity of japanese cars, and variants on years = retarded

GT4's potrayal of some cars is grosely innacurate (2000 Cobra R for example)

GT4's lack of the big sportscar names like Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari... Vector was noticably absent

GT4's hit and pass technique... while good for noobs, just annoying

GT4's Crash at 200 mph, and no damage.... no encuraging good racing i guess....

GT4's feel of spinning the tires was missing.... no kicking sidways... it always feels like an open differential

GT4's force feedback is a little strong, and wears on your hands after just a few hours

everything else, its pretty good; as long as you werent'a GT3 player

vs. Forza?

Steering wheel with true force feedback
as RC said, this is the single greatest detractor from the game

Tracks feel too flat, and too smooth, and too wide.
refer to complaint one.

In car camera is either on the ground (aka 4" off it) or on the front bumper, and too low to be effective, and the other cameras just dont feel right either

racing line.... i dont get teh same sence of speed in Forza as i do in GT4, so it is harder to judge corner entrance speed.

a bit cartoony, but crisp

(962, Nuf said LOL)

[ViperASR]

Personally, as I do think that using a wheel and pedals makes it more realistic, it dosnt make gameplay completly or even increadably realistic. To me it has always felt good, but not exactly real. The steering on my Sidewiner wheel and the forcefeedback are excellent, but the pedals really lack realism. I dont think that a videogame will ever be exactly like real life, without being in a simulator, and if you have that type of money, buy the real thing...
That said, I still dont like GT4. I played it at my friends, both with the controller and with a wheel, and it just wasnt as good as Forza with the 360 controller. The lack of damage was gay, so racing againt anyone turns into a crashfest. It was too hard to determine what the car was going to do going into a corner (oversteer/understeer), and the graphics seemed shabby. I have high hopes for Forza 2 (unlike nth) as it seems like there is alot of development going into the game. I will admit that some of the customization stuff is odd and dosnt attract me to the game anymore, but I suppose they had to put that in to compete with the NFS and such.

[nthfinity]

sidewinder wheel for what system?

GT4 feels lightyears more real then Forza; while both are arcade games, GT4 feels much more real to the real sims out there.

Also, when playing at your friends, the only way to setup multiplayer is in full arcade mode with stupid traction control, and stability control (numbs the feel of under/oversteer)

Try running the NS in practice with/out any aids in GT4, then try again in Forza... there is simply no comparison; even when running the same car.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by nthfinity GT4's throttle position isn't progressive enough GT4's steering should be less lock, as full lock in a real car is a conciderably tighter turn

Sounds like controller calibration issues.

Originally Posted by nthfinity GT4's engine sounds = poooooh GT4's quantity of japanese cars, and variants on years = retarded GT4's potrayal of some cars is grosely innacurate (2000 Cobra R for example)

This is also countered by some cars that seem spot on and sounds that are realy good.

Sadly all the cars that are wrong are most of the cars we like

Originally Posted by nthfinity GT4's lack of the big sportscar names like Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari... Vector was noticably absent

I can live with this... if you need Porsche there is always Enthsia

Originally Posted by nthfinity GT4's hit and pass technique... while good for noobs, just annoying GT4's Crash at 200 mph, and no damage.... no encuraging good racing i guess....

I dont consider it a racing title.. just a hot lapping title - I only raced to open locked items - then after than just hotlap.

The AI is pretty stupid in high end races in difficult mode, but the AI is the hotlapping sessions seems to have a better chance of behaving semi normally on track, putting the respocsibilty for racing cleanly in your hands.. just like in real life - and finally try not to wreck, just as in real life - because even though Forza has damage it is extremely downplayed and reduced - so it may as wlel no tbe there at all

Originally Posted by nthfinity GT4's feel of spinning the tires was missing.... no kicking sidways... it always feels like an open differential GT4's force feedback is a little strong, and wears on your hands after just a few hours

I enjoy the over-the-top force feedback - since there is no other strain put on your body

Originally Posted by nthfinity everything else, its pretty good; as long as you werent'a GT3 player

Yep - especially if you hacked cars and had fun with the Porsche GT3 and Lamborghini hidden away in the game

Originally Posted by nthfinity vs. Forza? Steering wheel with true force feedback as RC said, this is the single greatest detractor from the game

Bingo...

Originally Posted by nthfinity Tracks feel too flat, and too smooth, and too wide. refer to complaint one.

Bingo again...

Originally Posted by nthfinity In car camera is either on the ground (aka 4" off it) or on the front bumper, and too low to be effective, and the other cameras just dont feel right either

Bingo yet again...

Originally Posted by nthfinity racing line.... i dont get teh same sence of speed in Forza as i do in GT4, so it is harder to judge corner entrance speed. a bit cartoony, but crisp (962, Nuf said LOL)

I would add that the damage model is too much of a compromise - even carbon and fibreglass cars just dent the body work.

How is that realist?

And the nature of the damage is rather random and no where near realistic.

If you go off the track at 80mph and put a wheel on the grass you spin.. and then you violantly smash into the tyres etc.. you dont just lose a head light and dent your fend and maybe kink you radiator.

You are out for the weekend and get your car towed to the pist put it on the trailor and go home.

This is why damage needs to be race ending, or not modeled..

[RC45]

Originally Posted by ViperASR That said, I still dont like GT4. I played it at my friends, both with the controller and with a wheel,

So you dont actually own the game then?

So you have only really played the arcade 2 player version?

Originally Posted by ViperASR and it just wasnt as good as Forza with the 360 controller.

What controller? A hand held XBox360 wireless controller ?

Originally Posted by ViperASR The lack of damage was gay, so racing againt anyone turns into a crashfest.

Hmm - sounds like you guys wanted to crash into each other - it takes self control and restraint to race without crashing into others.

Originally Posted by ViperASR It was too hard to determine what the car was going to do going into a corner (oversteer/understeer), and the graphics seemed shabby.

Then you must not be using a force feedback controller

Graphics seemed shabby? Hmm - thats odd - in a blind test of console illiterate people everyone I have shown GT4 and Forza to have said the GT4 display is 'almost like the real thing' while Forza looks like a game.. you know its not real, it is not photrealistic.

PGR3 is good.. but also never looks real in the way GT4 looks real..