MS always trying to be like Apple

[evoWalo]

never said they did

Well Linux is a far better solution to Windows on the server end. Linux is just lacking on the desktop. The world would be better if everyone was UNIX-based or UNIX-like.

no thanks, i think i'll compare the same PRICE as that was the point of the argument

Apple doesnt sell heavy/cheap laptops. Apple sells inexpensive & light feature-rich laptops. With Windows laptops you pay very large premium for smallness and lightness. Not so with those fashionable items from Apple.

Once again, they are only insisting their employees call it that, no one else. Also, please know that podcasting has nothing at all to do with ipods...

That's akin to having the Coke telling their people to reffer to Pepsi as colored sugar water. Still paranoid & funny.

Yes, as i said before, aesthetics do matter...in the living room. Not in the office...

You must work or want to work in an place with ugly things and ugly people. A lot of people dont!

The only real reason for a mac mini is a living room entertainment unit...i don't see any reason for a small form factor case in the office...unless you're out to impress someone with the way your office looks

A lot of offices put a premium on space. That's why SFF are popular in a lot of business fields. Apple just made their offering far more smaller. Yes you'd have a tough time upgrading it but how often do you see offices upgrading to the next fastest video card?

haha, ok i guess intel and amd are just in it for the giggles Razz

Yes I need a 4GHz machine to run Vista. Most of that grunt goes to processing bloatware.

*sigh*....here, go educate yourself

Proves nothing and only talks about that 72dpi is not good enough for non-screen display. Windows by default uses 72dpi on the screen. Yes they can be flexible but it normally not changed.

You obviously misread my post...i said developers make more stuff for windows becaues that's how they feed their kids. A common english expression meaning that's where the money is Razz

Again I care to feed their family because...? I want a computing environment that's stable and secure. If I have to buy software that is unreliable and unstable just to feed someone's family then no thanks. Let them starve.

Yeah, as in, they make what people want.

Because someone else proved it was profitable.

Once again, i draw your attention to the fact that less than 5% of all computers ANYWHERE are macs...so people who write viruses simply can't be bothered... you know why they write viruses? either to get attention, or to get a job in the industry...neither can be done while attacking an unpopular platform

Again let I point out to you that Linux/BSD are normally found as web servers and they are the majority as for being web servers and pretty much exposed to the Net most of the time. And yet they're seldom vulnerable to attack. Windows on the other hand is vulnerable. Last I heard a default WinXP client exposed to the net was infected in 12 mins flat.

Ok, wise one...then why does OS X come with a built in firewall???? And regardless of what you "think", every computer that is online needs a firewall...no matter how pretty it is Wink

If you want to block intentional unauthorized entry I guess which rarely is successful. Windows on the other hand requires a firewall so it wont get fucked.

Hey, you learned the correct plural Very Happy

Yes, you are most bright.

this is an extremely well known issue...quite old too. It was fixed some years ago

I take it before SP2? SP2 aint gamer friendly last I heard.

it was just named podcasting because thats "cool, hip, and trendy"

Which incidently Apple didnt have a direct hand in it.

that's just cruel Sad

Welcome to JW!

Oh yeah? Ever heard of Orcad? Pcad? And a bunch of other engineering software along with a whole bunch pf other small utilitties that are used for many electronics related things? What is it with you and viruses. I have a PC, I dont have viruses.

Lots of CAD apps are available on Mac.

That's great you dont have one. A lot of less geeky Windows users do get em.

[quote]What is it with you and windows? Fuck windows ok? I dont use windows...wtf is it with you mac boys and windows, 80% of PC users admit that windows is shit, not as shitty as mac os though Wink Very Happy[quote]Windows = ghey w/ a dildo up its arse. Dont fuck Windows, Dump Windows! Get your facts straight. 90% of the world uses Windows desktops. MacOS9 and older are plain crap. I laugh at those old timers who proclaim it better than Windows or OS X.

Enthusiast! Ever heard of that? If I follow what your saying then we are all well of driving stock miatas.

Smaller minority than Linux or Mac users. Again Macs are not marketed to that end. That's why you have spare parts shops.

Can you stop brining your damn windows up? Whats your point? How is windows bad for a typical user?

This thread is about Microsoft & their products and Apple and their products. For non-gearheads Windows is bad.

Ahh your blind or dum? Fine? You want an optical drive? Throw in a burner, you can find one for 13$ if you look hard enough, actually my friend got one for 5$ after a rebate.

Rebates are crap & Apple doesnt use second tier parts.

No os? Sure there is os. The private shop will put on XP Corp. on there for you free of charge,(the beauty of PC ownership Or just get Linux, there are distros for just about any type of person these days.

Nice to see piracy isn't a Asia-only problem. Linux on the desktop, how quaint.

Lastly why would I want to switch to a mac? Can somebody please tell me?

Again you arent Apple's market. You have white box shops to satisfy your geeky needs. A lot of people would want a working PC out of the box without headaches.

Oh and a max will never be as pretty as any of these.

Nice variations on the PowerMac G5 case though I hate to keep opening the door.

/\/\/\So? Ipods are still shit. Doesnt change anything. Mac is not a leader in anything these days. Design...yeah right. I can build a PC that will look tons better in and out. Actually I can build a PC that will look like anything I want to these days.

Have you used one at any great length of time or own one? I bet if Creative made it you'd drool. What's up with Apple and their designs? Most of their work are iconic.

The only reason they use them is because mac just has a history of being the best at design, which it was few years ago. It doesnt actually make it the best. If you didnt know half the programers and CEOs of all these companies know nothing on hardware and go by what their friend or what they read in the paper or what they see in a commecrial.

You're wrong. Wrong again. Most programmers recommend Windows because Windows is all that they know. CEOs use Windows because that's what all they know. When they hear "Linux" or "Macs" they immediatly cringe unless they have seen and know the advantages of each platform.

I say it again, all adobe design/editing software is now availible for PC. I actually have a DVD with everything that adobe makes. Some 25 or so programs. All for PC.

Adobe makes good software. Too bad the operating system needs to be nannied to actually work properly.

And as I said before, most engineering software isnt made for Mac.

Which never stopped a lot of engineers using one.

The only area were you see Macs used is as stated many times, the design industry. And those macs that the design crowd uses run the same software that is availible for PC. Just give it time when more people become aware of it macs will die.

Dont you mean the tredny crowd which RC & the boy blunder are harping about? Apple has been said to be dying for the past 3 decades. What a wonderfully glorious slow death.

mac run 85% of the portable audio market... so no wonder MS is trying to jump in Very Happy

Microsoft is known for that.

/\/\/\Doesnt matter to me if they run 99% of that market. Its not the best product. There are quite a few other ones that are cheaper, have better battery life, look better and play much more formats and have build in radios.

Again have yo used one extensively or own one? If not then you dont know what you're talking about. Again with the Anti-Apple rhetoric. I bet if were made by the manufacturer you liked and it was the same exact way you'd swoon over it.

Anyway, even if there was no adobe software for PC...What makes Mac so good for all people?

They dont have to turn into an ethusiast because they *need* too.

does final cut do ANYTHING that this software doesn't do?

Do it way cheaper on a very stable and secure platform.

What would I do with the over priced under perfromaing hunk of crap to begin with? Name a SINGLE thing that I would a Mac for - ANY Mac that I can't do on my PC? And remember, I have a PC to play GTR once a month - so why should I maintain 2 Computers at home? At the office, what would a Mac do for me or anyone else? And I don't mean some rinky dink 5 computer over-priced design studio. But the head office of a large Corp with 7500 personal computers to roll out, deploy maintain and manage so that their users can get on with the business of what ever the corporation does. Rememebr, Apple tried to play in that space years ago and failed badly - because there was no software. Please folks - get real Smile

Your very answer shows your ignorance.

Bull - other than recompiles to support Intel instruction sets, they are the same. This has been true for many, many, many, many years. Right down to the fact that Adobe apps for the longest time were some of the few self contained Apps that you can (I know I do it) move from PC to PC just by copying the entire App folder. Just the same way the app works on a Mac... Razz I supported those piles of crap in years gone by - By the way - I can tell you, most Apple users I came across were as dumb as a box of rocks in relations to anything techincal about computers and compuitng in general. Much like the Beemer and Benz owners who know the car uses gas - but couldn't tell you how to open the hood - yet swear blind they are car enthusiasts thats why they drive an M5 or E55. Smile Apple is crap - period Wink

Again your ignorance is showing. Apple has the advantage of ColorSync which is very important to those into print & media. It keeps Ferrari's red Ferrari red irregardless of camera, display, printer, etc. Companies have gotten sued because they didnt do the exact same color.

Apple is crap in your mind because your skills cant be used to make money on it.

Most Mac users do not NEED to be other than dumb as box or rocks because they're computers dont NEED them to be any more informed. It's like most modern cars. You dont need to be a petrol head to know how to drive a car. You just need to know the basics of driving. You dont have to know how to extract the engine and clean out everything and put it back in again because most car makers dont require you too.

Yes I did. Shit and shit. Can we move on?

Your overly technical mind cant grasp it? For shame.

Oh BTW. See this? This is on a PC. Yes were that versatile, can do just about anything, even useless GUIs like the Mac one.

Nice skin. Too bad it isnt accelerated by Direct 3D. BTW is that your desktop? Nice "Mac" you got there.

[pharzo]

Quote: never said they did Well Linux is a far better solution to Windows on the server end. Linux is just lacking on the desktop. The world would be better if everyone was UNIX-based or UNIX-like.

Once again...never said it wasn't...

However you are totally wrong in saying Linux is not a good desktop...in recent years it has become excellent...the interface is great, installation easy, and drivers readily available

You must work or want to work in an place with ugly things and ugly people. A lot of people dont!

sigh...no, i just care more about functionality, performace, and robustness than pretiness. This is more important at the end of the day

Most of that grunt goes to processing bloatware.

wow...bloatware...another buzzword...but ok, here's a quote from the source you seem to love so much, wikipedia

The question remains, then, why is there so much bloatware is around, even though the usability and commercial viability of bloatware seem lacking. Joel Spolsky in his Strategy Letter IV: Bloatware and the 80/20 Myth, argues that while 80% of the users only use 20% of the features, each one uses different features. Thus, "lite" software editions turn out to be useless for most, as they miss that one or two special features that are present in the "bloated" version. Spolsky sums the article with a quote by Jamie Zawinski: "Convenient though it would be if it were true, Mozilla is not big because it's full of useless crap. Mozilla is big because your needs are big. Your needs are big because the Internet is big. There are lots of small, lean web browsers out there that, incidentally, do almost nothing useful. But being a shining jewel of perfection was not a goal when we wrote Mozilla."

Proves nothing and only talks about that 72dpi is not good enough for non-screen display. Windows by default uses 72dpi on the screen. Yes they can be flexible but it normally not changed.

Maybe you should go and read that site again...it clearly states that for video, dpi is a non-existant concept

Again I care to feed their family because...? I want a computing environment that's stable and secure. If I have to buy software that is unreliable and unstable just to feed someone's family then no thanks. Let them starve.

And again you miss the point...just forget the food thing if you can't process a bit of analogy. I was just trying to say that there is more software for PC's because that's where the pay check is for developers

Again let I point out to you that Linux/BSD are normally found as web servers and they are the majority as for being web servers and pretty much exposed to the Net most of the time. And yet they're seldom vulnerable to attack. Windows on the other hand is vulnerable. Last I heard a default WinXP client exposed to the net was infected in 12 mins flat.

Dude ok...get freakin' servers out of your head...we're not talking about what the best server platform is best here...if we were mac wouldn't even enter into the discussion

Windows on the other hand requires a firewall so it wont get fucked.

Windows has a built in firewall...same as mac

Quote: this is an extremely well known issue...quite old too. It was fixed some years ago I take it before SP2? SP2 aint gamer friendly last I heard.

yeah, way before sp2. it was one of the first security holes found...there's an advantage to having a HUGE user base

Smaller minority than Linux or Mac users. Again Macs are not marketed to that end. That's why you have spare parts shops.

please don't pair linux users and mac users...planets apart baby...planets apart

For non-gearheads Windows is bad.

AH HA!!! you admit it...for performace seeking people windows is good...so mac is good for grannies and web designers who know nothing about computers

Rebates are crap & Apple doesnt use second tier parts.

Doesn't really relate to his post...at all

Nice to see piracy isn't a Asia-only problem. Linux on the desktop, how quaint.

he's not talking about piracy...and linux on the desktop is better than ever these days as i mentioned above

A lot of people would want a working PC out of the box without headaches.

Here again...i think you're just proving our point. Yes...mac are probably better for luddites and people who are pleased by pretty things. like...AOL users...hairdressers...kindergarten teachers

But we're talking about normal people here

Have you used one at any great length of time or own one? I bet if Creative made it you'd drool. What's up with Apple and their designs? Most of their work are iconic

i can't speak for alex, but i do have ipod. it's 2nd gen, touch wheel, 15 gb. I bought it 2 years ago because it was the largest size available from any vendor (here in poland). However present day it has become a little dated, with respect to file support, capacity, and price

Most programmers recommend Windows because Windows is all that they know

I don't think, as a group, you will a group more computer savvy than IT professionals...so windows is certainly not "all they know"

when you go through a comp. sci degree you learn basically everything...and windows is most definitely not the OS of choice for programmers.

the boy blunder

talking about me again i guess...don't know why...or even how you arrived at that particular bit of libel

I bet if were made by the manufacturer you liked . . . you'd swoon over it.

No no...that's you

Apple has the advantage of ColorSync which is very important to those into print & media

Ok...i've done some assisting in a graphics house my dad was working with...and the first thing any of the designers did when going onto a computer, or getting any piece of hardware, was do print tests and match up the colors. None used macs btw...i think because they didn't support some of the printers they were using (large scale decal, thermal)

whatever, none of that matters, only "first thing any of the designers did when going onto a computer, or getting any piece of hardware, was do print tests and match up the colors."

[SFDMALEX]

Can you stop the useless quote replies and write something solid?

And no, no engineers use Macs. My father has been an IC/Microwave/RF Engineer all his life and never did he use a mac at any of the compaines he worked at.

And what is wrong with a linux on a regular desktop for regular people. Instead of talking shit go do some reaserch on linux and tell me how its bad. Have you seen latest user friendly pretty GUI Linux distros? All you do is download a 4gb DVD image and you get an OS packed with so much utilities you wont have time to go through them all. And all are very easy to use.

Nothing not user friendly about this


Anything pre OSX is shit and you know it, I worked on Macs, not OSX though and all I have to say is that its utter shit, crashed and froze on me so many times that I had to redo projects 10x. And thats a few systems, not one fauluty one. And I was doing work on it that its supposed to excel at, photo and video editing. And dont even ask what model it was cause I dont know and what difference does it make...If I need a 5000$ mac to do basic video editing without crashing every minute then Id rather get a new job.

Again give me one reason why I should switch to a mac powered osx os?
One reason.
One reason why would I pick a dual core 64 bit 3.0ghz P4 with ddr4000 running dual 6800Ultras in SLI over any mac? Running a windows and a Linux distro.
Tell me one reason why my parents should switch their 2.4 Celeron with 256DDR 3200 internet machine which I got for them for like 250$ to a mac.
Tell me why the video production company that bought 4 high end PCs from a shop I worked at 2 years should switch to a Mac.

Tell me one reason why I would want to swtich to a Mac.
And please, dont bring windows up because thatts the only argument you Mac boys have against PC. There are tons of OSs for PC and Linux these days is as friendly as OSX and Windows, you just need to get the right distro.

So what do have you on me? Nothing.

A PC can do everything a mac can, and a mac cant do a shit load of stuff PC cant. As I said before, the components for your mac were engineered on a PC running the software that you cant get for mac.

And dont bring up looks because mac has nothing on PC as far as looks go. I can litteraly make a PC look as anything that I want.

And BTW we make em small too.

[evoWalo]

However you are totally wrong in saying Linux is not a good desktop...in recent years it has become excellent...the interface is great, installation easy, and drivers readily available

If it is so good then how come it isnt outdoing Windows? It is free. There is OO & StarOffice which are also free. Oh I forgot it takes a Linux geek to figure it all out. Thanks but no thanks.

sigh...no, i just care more about functionality, performace, and robustness than pretiness. This is more important at the end of the day

Sounds like you just saw Macs/iPods in the tellie.

wow...bloatware...another buzzword...but ok, here's a quote from the source you seem to love so much, wikipedia

OS X gets faster every OS update. Linux does get faster every OS update. Windows gets slower after each Windows update. Hence bloatware.

Maybe you should go and read that site again...it clearly states that for video, dpi is a non-existant concept

Again you're missing the point. The DPI on the Mac has to be the same from what screen to another. I never mentioned anything about dpi having any baring on videos.

And again you miss the point...just forget the food thing if you can't process a bit of analogy. I was just trying to say that there is more software for PC's because that's where the pay check is for developers

I dont care if developers make money off PCs whether or not they feed the brats or not. All the apps I and a lot of other people need are already on the Mac. Obviously games are high on your priorities then dont use a Mac.

Dude ok...get freakin' servers out of your head...we're not talking about what the best server platform is best here...if we were mac wouldn't even enter into the discussion

I'm only mentioning the servers because they are exposed to the Internet 24/7 & are very popular. If popularity is the reason OS X is immune then Apache webservers should be the most vulnerable of servers. All programs below a certain circulation would be immune.

doesnt have to equate to insecurity and instability irregardless if they are desktops/laptops/servers/workstations/appliances.

Windows has a built in firewall...same as mac

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,117380,00.asp
http://www.flexbeta.net/main/article...ion=show&id=76
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1837726,00.asp

Hence the popularity of 3rd party firewalls. Ever wonder why some JW members have 3 firewalls running on their Windows box? I had to uninstall SP2 cause some of the games didnt network properly. Everytime someone brings up how secure and stable Windows is I can google something that'll contradict it.

yeah, way before sp2. it was one of the first security holes found...there's an advantage to having a HUGE user base

Having a homogeneous userbase isn't always a good thing. How soon was the hole plug? A week? Months?

please don't pair linux users and mac users...planets apart baby...planets apart

Linus Torvalds uses Linux on a PowerMac G5 and is loving it. Bill Joy uses OS X on a Powerbook and is loving it.

AH HA!!! you admit it...for performace seeking people windows is good...so mac is good for grannies and web designers who know nothing about computers Very Happy

For people who love to buy $500 video cards & processors everytime they're availble, then yes. I'm glad grannies the world over have a computer for the rest of them. Why make computing needlessly complicated?

Doesn't really relate to his post...at all

Indeed it does.

he's not talking about piracy...and linux on the desktop is better than ever these days as i mentioned above

And the Linux desktop share vs Windows vs Mac is... what? 3rd?

Here again...i think you're just proving our point. Yes...mac are probably better for luddites and people who are pleased by pretty things. like...AOL users...hairdressers...kindergarten teachers But we're talking about normal people here Razz

Normal people do not leave their PC's guts on display for their cat to piss on.

i can't speak for alex, but i do have ipod. it's 2nd gen, touch wheel, 15 gb. I bought it 2 years ago because it was the largest size available from any vendor (here in poland). However present day it has become a little dated, with respect to file support, capacity, and price

Never used OS X and made assumptions. Does owning an iPod make you part of the trendy, cool, style conscious crowd?

I don't think, as a group, you will a group more computer savvy than IT professionals...so windows is certainly not "all they know" when you go through a comp. sci degree you learn basically everything...and windows is most definitely not the OS of choice for programmers.

Why isnt it the OS of choice for programmers? Isn't Windows where the money is? Feed the hungry kids and all that?

talking about me again i guess...don't know why...or even how you arrived at that particular bit of libel Confused

Dont take it seriously. I'm just teasing.

No no...that's you Razz

It's not too hard to swoon. So much pretty computers. Just you wait. OS X will come to a clone near you in a few years time. So brilliant hacker will figure out a way to get OS Xi (i for Intel) to work on clones.

Ok...i've done some assisting in a graphics house my dad was working with...and the first thing any of the designers did when going onto a computer, or getting any piece of hardware, was do print tests and match up the colors. None used macs btw...i think because they didn't support some of the printers they were using (large scale decal, thermal) whatever, none of that matters, only "first thing any of the designers did when going onto a computer, or getting any piece of hardware, was do print tests and match up the colors."

Thanks for solidifying my belief you dont know what you're talking about.

Can you stop the useless quote replies and write something solid?

Respectfully, if you dont like what is said then dont participate. I will admit this, Macs arent for people who love to build their own system. There are other companies that does that work. If Windows fills your need and the inconvenience isnt inconvenience to you then that's great.

And no, no engineers use Macs. My father has been an IC/Microwave/RF Engineer all his life and never did he use a mac at any of the compaines he worked at.

Can you say that with a great degree of certainty? Your dad isnt the only engineer or where he works the only company that have engineers. I'm guessing your dad uses popular platforms because it is the easiest way to earn a living. I respect that.

And what is wrong with a linux on a regular desktop for regular people. Instead of talking shit go do some reaserch on linux and tell me how its bad. Have you seen latest user friendly pretty GUI Linux distros? All you do is download a 4gb DVD image and you get an OS packed with so much utilities you wont have time to go through them all. And all are very easy to use.

Regular people wouldnt know how to install Linux. How popular are Linux PCs as compared to Windows? Last I heard 9 out of 10 PCs are shipped with Windows. Dude, I used to be a Linux advocate in 1999. I was part of the panel of speakers in Linux 99 in Manila. I still keep tabs with friends from the Philippine Linux User Group and they give me the whole marketing talk about Linux being ready for the desktop. And yet I have yet to see Linux outside of educational environment.

And here's the problem... you need to DOWNLOAD a 4GB DVD image. How many people own DVD writers all over the world? How many people have broadband internet all over the world? Linux is supposed to be free but the economic cost of aquiring it rises the poorer the downloader is.

If pharzo's grannie cant figure out how to install Linux on her eMachine iMac knockoff then it isnt easy enough.

Nothing not user friendly about this

Looks like a monster ate the Windows GUI & Mac GUI and did his business.

Anything pre OSX is shit and you know it, I worked on Macs, not OSX though and all I have to say is that its utter shit, crashed and froze on me so many times that I had to redo projects 10x. And thats a few systems, not one fauluty one. And I was doing work on it that its supposed to excel at, photo and video editing. And dont even ask what model it was cause I dont know and what difference does it make...If I need a 5000$ mac to do basic video editing without crashing every minute then Id rather get a new job.

If you bothered reading my quotes you'd know I said pre-OS X is crap. Now there's the problem. All your biases are because you've used OS 9 or older. I also worked on OS 9 and it made me long for Windows 95! I only got into Macs because of iMovie which is a dream for those who arent out to master Premier and have simpler needs. It had so much limitations and looked so ugly that I'm glad Apple ditched the Platinium look and went with Aqua. Your information on Macs are almost a decade's out of date. OS X is the most advanced OS in the world according to left wing liberal media types. Most expensive Mac is $2999. You can already do basic video editing without crashing for as low as $499, 10 times cheaper than the (fanciful) Mac you're thinking off.

Again give me one reason why I should switch to a mac powered osx os? One reason. One reason why would I pick a dual core 64 bit 3.0ghz P4 with ddr4000 running dual 6800Ultras in SLI over any mac? Running a windows and a Linux distro. Tell me one reason why my parents should switch their 2.4 Celeron with 256DDR 3200 internet machine which I got for them for like 250$ to a mac. Tell me why the video production company that bought 4 high end PCs from a shop I worked at 2 years should switch to a Mac.

Again you arent Apple's market. They address those who want solutions... not spare parts. Windows XP 64 aint as popular as OS X. Linux are for gear heads not mere mortals.

You sir, are a geek who loves assembling computers like lego. Apple doesnt sell those types of products. They sell solutions. Seeming your dad is a gear head he doesnt need you fixing his computer every so often. Your mum can make your dad her sys admin. Not a lot of people are as brilliant as you or your father hence they look for companies that offer solid solutions to cover their (what you would probably think of as) shortcommings.

Tell me one reason why I would want to swtich to a Mac. And please, dont bring windows up because thatts the only argument you Mac boys have against PC. There are tons of OSs for PC and Linux these days is as friendly as OSX and Windows, you just need to get the right distro.

There are more games on a Mac than on Linux. Adobe CS is available on Macs. Macromedia is available on Mac. FCP is available on Mac. iLife is available on Mac. M$ Office is available on the Mac. If Linix is as friendly as Windows then how come few are using it? Linux is free and would save you $100-200 worth of licensing fees. Oh yeah, few (commercial) developers make software geared toward your average joe for Linux. Linux is an OS made by geeks for geeks so they wouldnt give a hoot about non-technical users.

So what do have you on me? Nothing.

Dude dont be too angry. You may crash your Linux box into a tree or something.

A PC can do everything a mac can, and a mac cant do a shit load of stuff PC cant. As I said before, the components for your mac were engineered on a PC running the software that you cant get for mac.

Linux cant play games. Cant do print or media for shit... You can upgrade it far more often. Yes, Linux PC desktops are far more greater than any Mac made.

And dont bring up looks because mac has nothing on PC as far as looks go. I can litteraly make a PC look as anything that I want.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Too bad your work of art wouldnt pass with most industrial design heavyweights. Apple has won a lot of awards due to the ground breaking designs which everyone copies.

BTW we make em small too.

Now that looks huge. Pls give physical dimensions of HxWxL & weight. The antenna looks to me can poke out my cat's eye out. BTW how noisy is the heat sink fan on that? Why isn't that slot loading? What I like about it though is that it has ports in the front. Lookie lookie it has Firewire, an Apple-created technology approved by the IEEE for consistently fast file transfers.



Time out... I remembered something... I'l get news items from a very reliable & trusted source... Fox News

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162444,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163647,00.html

[pharzo]

If it is so good then how come it isnt outdoing Windows? It is free. There is OO & StarOffice which are also free. Oh I forgot it takes a Linux geek to figure it all out. Thanks but no thanks.

If OSX is so good how come it isn't outdoing windows?

Linux isn't outdoing it because people mistakenly hold the notion that it "takes a linux geek to figure it all out"

Ever heard of YaST?

Windows gets slower after each Windows update

That's just wrong...they may add more functionality every update...but that can all be disabled if one is resource hungry

Again you're missing the point. The DPI on the Mac has to be the same from what screen to another. I never mentioned anything about dpi having any baring on videos.

Thanks for solidifying my belief you dont know what you're talking about.

I put those two together for a reason...

Ok, here you go again with the insults...which is fine i guess

But maybe if you bothered to get your head out of your ass long enough to go and actually READ that site i so nicely gave you, you would know that dpi doesn't exist on VIDEO SCREENS, not freakin' video. As in, there is no dpi on monitors There are pixels...no inches. dpi is only relevant for printing. Not for stuff "from screen to screen"

Don't be so arrogant to assume only you have knowledge

Regular people wouldnt know how to install Linux. How popular are Linux PCs as compared to Windows? Last I heard 9 out of 10 PCs are shipped with Windows. Dude, I used to be a Linux advocate in 1999. I was part of the panel of speakers in Linux 99 in Manila. I still keep tabs with friends from the Philippine Linux User Group and they give me the whole marketing talk about Linux being ready for the desktop. And yet I have yet to see Linux outside of educational environment. And here's the problem... you need to DOWNLOAD a 4GB DVD image. How many people own DVD writers all over the world? How many people have broadband internet all over the world? Linux is supposed to be free but the economic cost of aquiring it rises the poorer the downloader is. If pharzo's grannie cant figure out how to install Linux on her eMachine iMac knockoff then it isnt easy enough.

Maybe if you had checked out a linux distro SINCE 1999 you would know stuff is quite different now...there are graphics based installers, and it's not so difficult to figure it out. If downloading it is a problem for, go pick up a local Linux mag, they typically bundle some flavour of linux on cd's

My grannie is still fazed by headlight that come on when it's dark out...so no SuSe for her

But my argument would be that if computers really are SO difficult for someone to understand, and they have money burning a hole in their pockey, and they're fashion conscious, go for a mac!

Linux is an OS made by geeks for geeks

seriously man...not true anymore. don't argue...just please go check :roll:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

exacto mundo

Kind of renders your whole "looks good" argument null and void

I dont care if developers make money off PCs

well you should...because until they can make money off hairdressers with convertibles, you won't get any innovative and original apps on your mac trash

Apache webservers should be the most vulnerable of servers.

uhh...yeah...apache NEVER gets h4x0red by stupid script kiddies. Ever seen how often they release updates?

Besides, server side security is largely the problem of the webadmin rather than the software. Much like OS's

Having a homogeneous userbase isn't always a good thing. How soon was the hole plug? A week? Months?

didn't say homogenous...said huge. The problem was fixed as soon as it known, because there is a simple user-side solution.

Linus Torvalds uses Linux on a PowerMac G5 and is loving it. Bill Joy uses OS X on a Powerbook and is loving it.

I don't care if freakin' God uses OSX on his iBook and rocks hard to his son's iPod. That's the difference between mac users and normal people...mac users care about this kind of tripe

Never used OS X and made assumptions. Does owning an iPod make you part of the trendy, cool, style conscious crowd?

Wow more assumptions. Typical of the mac user i guess.

I've used OS X. Nothing special.
No, I don't think owning an ipod makes me part of that group...most of that group think the ipod mini is the first one ever made. I bought it, because, as i said, it was the best thing on the market, over here, at that time. This is no longer true

Why isnt it the OS of choice for programmers? Isn't Windows where the money is? Feed the hungry kids and all that?

Horrible reasoning here...please make an attempt to understand the posts you're quoting, not simply saying crap. Windows is the OS they write their programs FOR, not necessarily what they write ON.

OS X is the most advanced OS in the world according to left wing liberal media types.

Wow you presume to know a lot. Care to present proof? Let me save you the trouble, because any proof you have cannot possibly justify the stupid statement made above.

Time out... I remembered something... I'l get news items from a very reliable & trusted source... Fox News

Sorry man, no news story in the world can change the fact that in this race, you're backing the wrong horse

Fact is, there's nothing a mac can do that is unique. Unless look good, if you like how they look. That's what it comes down to. There are however things that PC's do that macs can't. Games, software, hardware...That's the crux of it. Mac's have no purpose

[pharzo]

And here's a news story for you

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158547,00.html

From a news source you proclaimed to be "reliable"

Just so you know how fragile things like stock and profit really are...creative could release a new ipod style thing next month, and because it looks slightly prettier and is endorsed by Maroon 5 or some crap like that, Apple's profits fall 30%

That's how fickle it is to rely on stuff like fashion and prettiness to get you sales

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by evoWALO Can you say that with a great degree of certainty? Your dad isnt the only engineer or where he works the only company that have engineers. I'm guessing your dad uses popular platforms because it is the easiest way to earn a living. I respect that.

First of all he is not the one who chooses the platform, the corporation is.
I say it again, leading engineering software is not availible for Macs. Period. You have absolutly no argument here.

Regular people wouldnt know how to install Linux. How popular are Linux PCs as compared to Windows? Last I heard 9 out of 10 PCs are shipped with Windows. Dude, I used to be a Linux advocate in 1999. I was part of the panel of speakers in Linux 99 in Manila. I still keep tabs with friends from the Philippine Linux User Group and they give me the whole marketing talk about Linux being ready for the desktop. And yet I have yet to see Linux outside of educational environment.

Its not 1999, its 2005. Things changed, and Linux is as easy to install as windows these days So again absolutly no argument here.

And here's the problem... you need to DOWNLOAD a 4GB DVD image. How many people own DVD writers all over the world? How many people have broadband internet all over the world? Linux is supposed to be free but the economic cost of aquiring it rises the poorer the downloader is.

Go pick up a linux mag and get a distro from there. Make a phone call and get a copy for 5$. No argument here.

Looks like a monster ate the Windows GUI & Mac GUI and did his business.

Whats your point? None I see. I love your quoting techinqies which make it look as if you are actually counter arguing but in fact your just say random bullshit.

If you bothered reading my quotes you'd know I said pre-OS X is crap. Now there's the problem. All your biases are because you've used OS 9 or older. I also worked on OS 9 and it made me long for Windows 95! I only got into Macs because of iMovie which is a dream for those who arent out to master Premier and have simpler needs. It had so much limitations and looked so ugly that I'm glad Apple ditched the Platinium look and went with Aqua. Your information on Macs are almost a decade's out of date. OS X is the most advanced OS in the world according to left wing liberal media types. Most expensive Mac is $2999. You can already do basic video editing without crashing for as low as $499, 10 times cheaper than the (fanciful) Mac you're thinking off.

So your here to make superiority claims shortly after Mac has devolped anything worthy...Hold on there buddy, give it time to gain my respect. I have worked on Macs and it was horrible, you expect me to show respect for Mac now that they did something good for once in their life? Fuck no.

Linux are for gear heads not mere mortals.

Bullshit. You have no argument against Linux. Go get a copy and install it somewere and then tell me how it is. Until then, stop using the word.

You sir, are a geek who loves assembling computers like lego. Apple doesnt sell those types of products. They sell solutions. Seeming your dad is a gear head he doesnt need you fixing his computer every so often. Your mum can make your dad her sys admin. Not a lot of people are as brilliant as you or your father hence they look for companies that offer solid solutions to cover their (what you would probably think of as) shortcommings.

You sir are a moron, you should really stop making assumptions.
I hate assembling computers with a passion, fucking waist of time, Id rather make love to my girlfriend one extra time.

My dads computer knowledge consists of basic internet navigation skills, MS Word, and his engineering software.

Again stop making assumptions buddy, cause you just look bad.

Oh and Im not briliant, far from it. Just have common sence and a good habit of reading.

There are more games on a Mac than on Linux. Adobe CS is available on Macs. Macromedia is available on Mac. FCP is available on Mac. iLife is available on Mac. M$ Office is available on the Mac. If Linix is as friendly as Windows then how come few are using it? Linux is free and would save you $100-200 worth of licensing fees. Oh yeah, few (commercial) developers make software geared toward your average joe for Linux. Linux is an OS made by geeks for geeks so they wouldnt give a hoot about non-technical users.

If I want games and Adobe and Flash Ill use my XP Again whats your argument?

I can do anything on PC.

Again, whats your argument?

Linux for geeks? Bullshit. In 1999 it was.

Linux cant play games. Cant do print or media for shit.

If I want games Ill get XP. Cant print or media for shit? Yeah ok :roll:

Yes, Linux PC desktops are far more greater than any Mac made.

You see it wasnt so hard was it?

Too bad your work of art wouldnt pass with most industrial design heavyweights. Apple has won a lot of awards due to the ground breaking designs which everyone copies.

Ok there buddy, Ill just make my PC with the exact same case as that of a Mac and pass "all industrial design heavyweifhts" and then some.

Your argument?

Now that looks huge. Pls give physical dimensions of HxWxL & weight. The antenna looks to me can poke out my cat's eye out. BTW how noisy is the heat sink fan on that? Why isn't that slot loading? What I like about it though is that it has ports in the front. Lookie lookie it has Firewire, an Apple-created technology approved by the IEEE for consistently fast file transfers.

As small or smaller then anything mac can offer. Its not noisy at all, me mate has one as a media center, doesnt make a noise.

Ok so it has Firewire... Do I give a shit who developed it? Hell no, all I care is that it has one :roll:

Your argument?

[SFDMALEX]

And just so you know, I dont use Linux, I use windows XP.

[graywolf624]

First of all he is not the one who chooses the platform, the corporation is.

Gray Wolf
- Computer Programmer by trade
- Computer Science Degree
- Owns a PC
- Owns 2 macs.

First, us programmers code whatever the hell our bosses ask us to do. Some of us have our preferences, but in reality objectively it isn't based on quality of product.

Out of the box macs are more secure. Working to setup a windows box right(mean setting it up to run the number of features the mac has out of box) results in just as secure a setup, with just as reliable output. The truth is, theres only 3 real reasons to choose between them.

macs:
more secure to begin with, so you can be lackadasical in setting up security.. Though its a myth that they dont have vulnerabilites, especially when you realize how many big ones they have had as of late despite representing a minute amount of the market.

pcs:
more software available.
less expensive.

Ultimately though it usually comes down to what you have more experience in, what your more comfortable with.

[RC45]

In Apple's most recent quarter, its sold 5.31 million iPods, accounting for 31 percent of the company's revenue.

What a freaking joke... 1/3 of their revenue comes from selling a stupid little music player?

Talk about not being a serious player in the computer space - and having all your eggs in one fragile basket.

I wonder if Apple ever heard the term "diversify"

Originally Posted by evoWALO What would I do with the over priced under perfromaing hunk of crap to begin with? Name a SINGLE thing that I would a Mac for - ANY Mac that I can't do on my PC? And remember, I have a PC to play GTR once a month - so why should I maintain 2 Computers at home? At the office, what would a Mac do for me or anyone else? And I don't mean some rinky dink 5 computer over-priced design studio. But the head office of a large Corp with 7500 personal computers to roll out, deploy maintain and manage so that their users can get on with the business of what ever the corporation does. Rememebr, Apple tried to play in that space years ago and failed badly - because there was no software. Please folks - get real Smile Your very answer shows your ignorance.

Ignorance with regard to what exactly? A general insult like this shows you have no valid counter point to offer.

Originally Posted by evoWALO Bull - other than recompiles to support Intel instruction sets, they are the same. This has been true for many, many, many, many years. Right down to the fact that Adobe apps for the longest time were some of the few self contained Apps that you can (I know I do it) move from PC to PC just by copying the entire App folder. Just the same way the app works on a Mac... Razz I supported those piles of crap in years gone by - By the way - I can tell you, most Apple users I came across were as dumb as a box of rocks in relations to anything techincal about computers and compuitng in general. Much like the Beemer and Benz owners who know the car uses gas - but couldn't tell you how to open the hood - yet swear blind they are car enthusiasts thats why they drive an M5 or E55. Smile Apple is crap - period Wink Again your ignorance is showing. Apple has the advantage of ColorSync which is very important to those into print & media. It keeps Ferrari's red Ferrari red irregardless of camera, display, printer, etc. Companies have gotten sued because they didnt do the exact same color.

ColorSync is simply Apples own cross-platform implimentation of colour management. PC based preprod and graphics apps have similar colour management - and have for years. And until recently, not even Apple had a single interface, you were still stuck with some Pantone or ICC compliant colour managment interface in the app you were running.

Originally Posted by evoWALO Apple is crap in your mind because your skills cant be used to make money on it.

How would you know - I have colour management software and hardware at home to match output to onscreen graphics - and it would be no different on an Apple - you still have to use some kind of calibrator to get the job done.

Originally Posted by evoWALO Most Mac users do not NEED to be other than dumb as box or rocks because they're computers dont NEED them to be any more informed. It's like most modern cars. You dont need to be a petrol head to know how to drive a car. You just need to know the basics of driving. You dont have to know how to extract the engine and clean out everything and put it back in again because most car makers dont require you too.

Wrong.

Not knowing where you saved your data - or the difference between a spreadsheet and a word processor file are valid skills.

The same way in order to be a good driver you need to have fundamental understanding of the automobile. This is why most drivers are unsafe - they don't know how to drive.

This is why pilots have an indepth understanding of all things aviation - it makes you a better, safer operator.

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Gray Wolf - Computer Programmer by trade - Computer Science Degree Working to setup a windows box right(mean setting it up to run the number of features the mac has out of box) results in just as secure a setup, with just as reliable output. pcs: more software available. less expensive.

Thank you, shall we end it all here?

[Toronto]

"DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy,
and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use wordwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand,
may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that
numbers alone do not denote a higher life form."

--- New York Times, November 26, 1991

[RC45]

Originally Posted by insane STOP ALL THE QUOTING, YOU'RE MAKING MY EYES HURT!

You knew this was coming - right?

[SFDMALEX]

Anyway EvoWalo why are you using firefox on your powerbook? Just so you know, us windows users can get the same program


And Toronto you use a PC and Windows XP why are you all on about macs?

[evoWalo]

I dont use a Powerbook though maybe in a few weeks time I might be.

I use Firefox because it is better than Safari. Not all Apple products are the best. Just like any other company they did make a number of stinkers. Stinkers being unpopular with the cool/stylish/etc not the uncool/unstylish/etc. Before anyone bashes Safari it did get Firefox sudden support. Why? Because people from the Mozilla Foundation found it insulting & a wakeup call for them that Apple decided to use Konqueror's KHTML engine, at the time a very immature oss, instead of Gecko. Do a simple google search it'll come up. If it werent for Apple, Firefox wouldnt be as developed or as matured as it is today. I originally used Mozilla Navigator then went Firefox because it was too slow.

Here's another headline... I also use MS Office for Mac & Windows because it is better than OO and alternative Office Suites. Why? Because they have the best word processor & spreadsheet app around.

Another headline... I'd use Windows over Linux as a desktop if it was my personal desktop. For the office I'd stick in Linux if and only if the manpower can take the sudden GUI downgrade.

I am rational & humble enough to acknowledge the strong and weak points of each technology irregardless of ideologies. Thus I use the best tools available.

Baring any more substanial arguements, this will be my last post on this thread because insane makes a sane point.