Ohhh My God Look at this......

[HeilSvenska]

BMW 1-series





and Zonda

[itsthepham]

I seriously cant wait for this game. but the wait is worth it cause as we all know the game will be flawless. and take forever to beat. haha

[hwe]

Originally Posted by SFDMALEX Originally Posted by graywolf624 GT4 is pretty damn real with a wheel. It's not 100 percent correct, but it is damn close. The gtr game beats it, sure. But then as said above gt has better polish. The issues I have with gt4 are more due to the tuning aspect then the stock cars. For the most part the stock cars feel correct. If its anything like GT3 then I'm very dissapointed. The slip curves were moddeled like shit in GT3......and they way you could save the rear end from swapping ends with the front made me laugh.

I played GT4 prologue. Dissapointed me, not much improvement in the handling. And the rally handling still sucks. GT is still miles away from simulation. Its still is an arcade game. And will sell millions of copies because people find it fun. Not me though

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by hwe Originally Posted by SFDMALEX Originally Posted by graywolf624 GT4 is pretty damn real with a wheel. It's not 100 percent correct, but it is damn close. The gtr game beats it, sure. But then as said above gt has better polish. The issues I have with gt4 are more due to the tuning aspect then the stock cars. For the most part the stock cars feel correct. If its anything like GT3 then I'm very dissapointed. The slip curves were moddeled like shit in GT3......and they way you could save the rear end from swapping ends with the front made me laugh. I played GT4 prologue. Dissapointed me, not much improvement in the handling. And the rally handling still sucks. GT is still miles away from simulation. Its still is an arcade game. And will sell millions of copies because people find it fun. Not me though

Thanks for the little review. Its exactly what I thought...oh well :roll: Thank god for LFS and GTR. For US real simmers

[graywolf624]

If its anything like GT3 then I'm very dissapointed. The slip curves were moddeled like shit in GT3......and they way you could save the rear end from swapping ends with the front made me laugh.

What way save the rears and slip curves are you talking about. Countersteer?

With the controller I think gt3 is practically useless..
With a steering wheel, if you can manage smooth input and deal with the one nag of delayed inputs its great. I find it pretty accurate as well(other then the rally stuff which isnt and we wont go there). My main gripe re gt3 is the interaction with the scenery/walls on impact. It has been proven that gt is incredibly realisitc and the best for a CONSOLE (take examples of lap times of professional drivers). I have to respectibly disagree. Its a really adequate simulation if you drive how a race car should be driven. Many of the cars handle very similar to their real life equivelent for me. Its not the best, but it is one of the..
take the handling of trail braking and acceleration out. These are very well handled in the gt series. They also do a decent job of handling alltitude transitions. Where the series lacks is most related to allowing for carefully modulated inputs(see controller delays and short commings above) and the handling of impacts into other things(which your not supposed to do in the first place!)

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 If its anything like GT3 then I'm very dissapointed. The slip curves were moddeled like shit in GT3......and they way you could save the rear end from swapping ends with the front made me laugh. What way save the rears and slip curves are you talking about. Countersteer? With the controller I think gt3 is practically useless.. With a steering wheel, if you can manage smooth input and deal with the one nag of delayed inputs its great. I find it pretty accurate as well(other then the rally stuff which isnt and we wont go there). My main gripe re gt3 is the interaction with the scenery/walls on impact. It has been proven that gt is incredibly realisitc and the best for a CONSOLE (take examples of lap times of professional drivers). I have to respectibly disagree. Its a really adequate simulation if you drive how a race car should be driven. Many of the cars handle very similar to their real life equivelent for me. Its not the best, but it is one of the.. take the handling of trail braking and acceleration out. These are very well handled in the gt series. They also do a decent job of handling alltitude transitions. Where the series lacks is most related to allowing for carefully modulated inputs(see controller delays and short commings above) and the handling of impacts into other things(which your not supposed to do in the first place!)

The tire slip curves in the game are pathetic sorry. You got grip, slightly to much throttle and the tires are gone still giving some grip, but that slidding transition is far to big. And I tried it with two different steering wheels. Speaking of that the force feedback on GT3 was quite bad.

Laptimes dont mean anything in this case sorry. Just because you get close to real life times in the game it doesnt mean its a proper simulation.

" Many of the cars handle very similar to their real life equivelent for me. Its not the best, but it is one of the..
take the handling of trail braking and acceleration out. These are very well handled in the gt series. They also do a decent job of handling alltitude transitions. "

yeah true, it "has" those things modelled but the way they are moddeled needs big time improvment.

The final is, yeah its the best attempt at simulating cars in the console world up to date. It may have that lable simulation just like Crimson Sky can be sonsidered a flight simulator since some things in it are moddeled correctly. But its a bad simulator.

Plus how is it possible for these people to moddel properly so many cars? What values do they get for each car?

I drove it, thousands of other simmers drove it and it can not even compare to a proper PC simulator.

I test for SBDT and there are what? Forgot the number...15 or so different moddels and the amout of time that is spent on physics work is just to much to handel. The analyzation of telemetry data, the implantation into the physics engine takes thousands of man hours.

Lastly no one will buy a real simulator. They do not sell. They are to hard, because a real simulator is real. And its not easy to drive doesnt matter what car fast around the track.

You should try out a proper simulator once. Something like GTR(demo), LFS(demo), or even GPL(which is still great when not being driven by aliens).

[RC45]

Originally Posted by SFDMALEX Lastly no one will buy a real simulator. They do not sell. They are to hard, because a real simulator is real. And its not easy to drive doesnt matter what car fast around the track.

THAT is the problem - there is no need for a REAL simulator to be more difficult to master than real life. :roll: As I point out below, jumping behind the wheel of a real performance car is NOT the slip sliding spinning wheel lockup crashing display that REAL simulators so proudly extol - it is no good to have all the behavioural data in the physics engine - and then NOT be able to react quick enough for the human input... THAT is the probem with all the "REAL" simulators" - They are NOT real - sure they are full of real data, but they are real in their response time.

Originally Posted by SFDMALEX You should try out a proper simulator once. Something like GTR(demo), LFS(demo), or even GPL(which is still great when not being driven by aliens).

WHy does one need to try out a "proper simulator"?

I have said this before, and will say it again - I have taken my car (a 1:1 real non-simulated Z06) and thrashed it around in the woods and deserted parking lots and quiet freeways and the drag-strip beofre (I am not talking track comparisons, as the only track local to us is not modelled by anyone) and GT3 has been the only game similar enough to be representative of the car in an similar-to-real way.

PGR was a joke, as have been other "simulations" and games that have tried to model the Vette.

Why? For one thing they present the car as a tail happy slip-n-slide ride that has a propensity to lockup it's tyres and understeer like a mofo when not spinning like a ballerena.

The above behaviour requires you ro compensate the forces and actions you input into the game in a most unrealistic and non-driver like way in order to keep the car on the road - in short you need to console-arcade-compensate.

What does all this mean? While driving GT3, you can think and input as you do on the road, and receive similar results.

And if the Z06 feels relatively close to reality, I would then think that many of the other cars also behave similarly - as they did put in THOUSANDS of man-hours into GT3 - and are doing the same with GT4.

THAT to me is the measure of a simulation - not just the bland presentation of recorded real-time data gathered in the chosen physics engine.

Which is why PGR is great for kids, and GT is great for enthusiasts...