Note to America: Outsourcing Jobs is good for you...

[akumapc]

New Delhi -- Secretary of State Colin Powell, encountering the other side of a tempestuous debate in the United States, sought to assure Indians that the Bush administration would not try to halt the outsourcing of high-technology jobs to their country.

In a round of conversations with Indian leaders and college students on Tuesday, Powell found that the issue of the transfer of American jobs to India is as emotional in India as in the United States. But whereas American politicians have deplored the loss of such jobs, it is clear that the anxiety in India focuses on threats by some in Congress to try to stop the transfer by legislation.

In February, Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, stirred a political outcry when he called the outsourcing of jobs a long-term benefit for the economy. While Powell said on Tuesday that "it is the reality of 21st century economics that these kinds of dislocations will take place," he was quick to add that the Bush administration would work to train people for new jobs.


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PHEW!!! I was getting worried for a minute that we would try to stop outsourcing our jobs and start to rebuild industry here in the U.S. with economic policies centered upon the creation of jobs in America. :shock:

[akumapc]

WASHINGTON -- The movement of U.S. factory jobs and white-collar work to other countries is part of a positive transformation that will enrich the U.S. economy over time, even if it causes short-term pain and dislocation, the Bush administration said yesterday.

The embrace of foreign "outsourcing," an accelerating trend that has contributed to U.S. job losses in recent years and become an issue in the 2004 elections, is contained in the president's annual report to Congress on the health of the U.S. economy.

"Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade," said N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisors, which prepared the report. "More things are tradable than were tradable in the past. And that's a good thing."

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Last month there were 21,000 jobs created in the U.S. (U.S. Department of Labor) and not a SINGLE one of those jobs was in the private sector, they were all government related. The current unemployment rate in the U.S. is calculated as 5.6% in Feb 2004 which is modest, however if you factor in people who are no longer receiving unemployment or are no longer looking that figure raises to just under 10%.

[corvette97]

mmmmmmmmmmm, good to know, i guess

[graywolf624]

unemployment rate in the U.S. is calculated as 5.6% in Feb 2004 which is modest, however if you factor in people who are no longer receiving unemployment or are no longer looking that figure raises to just under 10%.

These numbers are misleading. First off 5.6 percent unemployment is remarkable. Before the late 1990s we thought that natural unemployment rate was 6 percent and that to go below that we would have to increase interest rates. Britain meanwhile historically has not seen 5.6 percent. The numbers with people not looking for work is at 1.4 million. This however is not entirely representative either. of that 1.4 million only .4 million are discouraged workers(given up on finding a job). The other portion 1 million are recent retires/college students/other group not working via choice.
Also outsourcing is good for the united states. If we are able to follow the path of history then a technical innovation will come along to start us in a new field while having us get the current offerings cheaper elsewhere(everyone lives). If the govt wants to help they should be encouraging inventors and ignore the job migration.

-Economics minor Georgia Tech
-Member national economics honor society

[akumapc]

Thanks for the insight, allow me to offer some numbers which show a different side of the equation. To begin with, there are the 8.7 million unemployed, defined as those without a job who are actively looking for work. But lurking behind that group are 4.9 million part-time workers who want a full time position but can't get it.

There are also the 1.5 million people who want a job but didn't look for one in the last month. Nearly a third of this group say they stopped the search because they were too depressed about the prospect of finding anything. Officially termed "discouraged," their number has surged 20% in a year. Add these three groups together and the jobless total for the U.S. hits 9.7%, up from 9.4% a year ago.

You mentioned following a path of history and hoping for technical innovation to open a new field, however I would say this is a bit optimistic. If you look at some numbers provided by the bureau of Labor Statistics you'll see that our "Economic Recovery" does not follow the trends we would normally expect in any recession since World War 2. Typically in a recovery period you would see jobs being created, and a greater demand on our industrial base for it's products and services. Whats makes this "recovery" so different is that jobs are not being created at the levels one would expect out of a recession and demand for american goods aren't rising (textile industry, manufacturing, high-tech). Since we are exporting our high tech base out of the US, along with high tech companies, we are reducing our ability to create those innovative high tech products and services that we would otherwise depend on to bring us out of this economic downturn. In light of this, I believe it would be misleading to conclude that our current economic policies reflect a historical trend and therefore shouldn't be an matter of concern...

[blah]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 unemployment rate in the U.S. is calculated as 5.6% in Feb 2004 which is modest, however if you factor in people who are no longer receiving unemployment or are no longer looking that figure raises to just under 10%. These numbers are misleading. First off 5.6 percent unemployment is remarkable. Before the late 1990s we thought that natural unemployment rate was 6 percent and that to go below that we would have to increase interest rates. Britain meanwhile historically has not seen 5.6 percent. The numbers with people not looking for work is at 1.4 million. This however is not entirely representative either. of that 1.4 million only .4 million are discouraged workers(given up on finding a job). The other portion 1 million are recent retires/college students/other group not working via choice. Also outsourcing is good for the united states. If we are able to follow the path of history then a technical innovation will come along to start us in a new field while having us get the current offerings cheaper elsewhere(everyone lives). If the govt wants to help they should be encouraging inventors and ignore the job migration. -Economics minor Georgia Tech -Member national economics honor society

why dont you go on and tell that to the family that cant feed their kids cuz the guy in India has their job. have you tried to call tech support lately? its horrible, these guys cant speak a lick of english and they are suppose to help you? Bull shit, i had an experience with dell where i had to call 5 times for a sound card. Until finally last call i got an American. Also lets see how much you like outsourcing when your job is moved over seas. Also note that alot of people cant afford to go back to school for additional training, high tech jobs are the future problem is people cant just go back and take courses for these jobs if they cant afford the time, or money.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by blah Originally Posted by graywolf624 unemployment rate in the U.S. is calculated as 5.6% in Feb 2004 which is modest, however if you factor in people who are no longer receiving unemployment or are no longer looking that figure raises to just under 10%. These numbers are misleading. First off 5.6 percent unemployment is remarkable. Before the late 1990s we thought that natural unemployment rate was 6 percent and that to go below that we would have to increase interest rates. Britain meanwhile historically has not seen 5.6 percent. The numbers with people not looking for work is at 1.4 million. This however is not entirely representative either. of that 1.4 million only .4 million are discouraged workers(given up on finding a job). The other portion 1 million are recent retires/college students/other group not working via choice. Also outsourcing is good for the united states. If we are able to follow the path of history then a technical innovation will come along to start us in a new field while having us get the current offerings cheaper elsewhere(everyone lives). If the govt wants to help they should be encouraging inventors and ignore the job migration. -Economics minor Georgia Tech -Member national economics honor society why don't you go on and tell that to the family that cant feed their kids cuz the guy in India has their job. have you tried to call tech support lately? its horrible, these guys cant speak a lick of english and they are suppose to help you? Bull shit, i had an experience with dell where i had to call 5 times for a sound card. Until finally last call i got an American. Also lets see how much you like outsourcing when your job is moved over seas. Also note that alot of people cant afford to go back to school for additional training, high tech jobs are the future problem is people cant just go back and take courses for these jobs if they cant afford the time, or money.

Exactly what I was going to say - in Houston and Austin we witnessed 10,000's of tech support jobs going to the Indian Sub-continent.

And it is not just the actual tech companies like Dell, HP/Compaq etc.. it is utility companies outsourcing their help desks.

I too hate speaking to foreign nationals that do not speak the best English - I have no problem with a foreign national (I am one afterall) getting the job - just move your fucking ass over to the USA and contribute to the society a little.

I think most people will have the same opinion about their own country as they observe friends and family all around get screwed over.

This exporting of jobs will have a knee-jerk swing a couple of years when it again becomes fashionable to do so.

Until then I just tell the foreign tech support person who answers to "F-Off and put me through to a US based person - I do not support your economy."

It works everytime.

[quote="graywolf624"]

-Economics minor Georgia Tech -Member national economics honor society

p.s. Wasn't it MBA's and Ecomomics majors that lead the rise and fall of the DotCom goldrush on "false promises of future success - right? LOL

[davmac]

Originally Posted by blah why dont you go on and tell that to the family that cant feed their kids cuz the guy in India has their job.

but there is a lot more opportunity in the states than there is in india. At least someone with out a job gets social assistance to feed their kids in the states, in india their kids would actualy starve.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by davmac Originally Posted by blah why dont you go on and tell that to the family that cant feed their kids cuz the guy in India has their job. but there is a lot more opportunity in the states than there is in india. At least someone with out a job gets social assistance to feed their kids in the states, in india their kids would actually starve.

Bullshit - social assistance?

Unless you already have 5 kids and are pregnant or if you are of the appropriate minority of the day, it is VERY difficult to qualify for state or federal assistance in the USA.

By the time you have dropped far enough down to reach the "official poverty line" you would have already proven you are gonna be a lazy shit and become a welfare case and slide even further down,

Or you say "fuck that - I am not going to have to deteriorate that much to qualify for assistance - let me go try something else" - but that "trying something else immediately outs you out of the "qualify for assistance" group.

Trust me - been there, done that.

[666fast]

Trust me - been there, done that.

Same here. Early last year I was laid off for three months. It sucked big time. Granted it wasn't long, but it was enough for me to never want to be out of work again.
As much as I didn't want to, I tried to collect unemloyment benefits. I didn't get a dime. I don't support many of the social assistance programs. I believe they create more problems than actually solving them. It was a lot of fun to go ask mom if I could borrow some money to pay my bills. I don't know about the rest of you, but I hate borrowing money from people. Especcially when you don't know when you will be able to pay it back.

I'm part of those statistics, I'm working part time and have been looking for a full time job for quite awhile. It really sucks, especially since I have very little experience. Since my sophmore year in high school, I've only had two jobs. The more people that are out of work, the more people there are that out qualify you. It sucks.

Do people in India need jobs? Of course they do, but a lot of people here need jobs too. I'll probably get flamed for this but, the US Government should care about it's own citizens before some other countries. Let thier countries create jobs for them.

I've been looking at schools lately trying to figure out what it is I'm gonna do with my life. I was looking at Software engineering and the like.
I might as well scratch that and become a plumber. The US will always need plumbers right?

So, when are all the burger flippers gonna be classified as manufacturing workers?

[graywolf624]

4.9 million part-time workers who want a full time position but can't get it.

The unemployment rate does not say who is looking for fulltime that has part time. Furthermore the unemployment was 8 percent for most of the 80s. The 1.5 million is up from 1.4 million from the january stats. Just as I said only .5 million are unemployed. This is nothing. This is what was normal before dot com. You can't compare things to the late 90s. It wasn't normal.

In light of this, I believe it would be misleading to conclude that our current economic policies reflect a historical trend and therefore shouldn't be an matter of concern...

Thats exactly what they said during the industrial revolution. Furthermore you guys do realize that there is a labor shortage in certain fields. So why it is hurting, health care is begging for people. It is short sighted to say that all the tech jobs are being deported so can't have innovation. Whos to say the next big wave is even computer related. You can't say that or assume that.

Also lets see how much you like outsourcing when your job is moved over seas.

First off. Im one of those unemployed.. Though I can tell you that the it sector is rebounding.
Second off. As an economist the benefits of the few is unimportant. Its the good of the whole that matters.

Wasn't it MBA's and Ecomomics majors that lead the rise and fall of the DotCom goldrush on "false promises of future success - right?

No those were investors. Many of the good economists forcasted "irrational exuberance"- alan greenspan 1996

This isn't to say there wont be backlash for lack of quality of foreign work. It is to say that getting products from someone with a better opportunity cost is ALWAYS a good idea. Free trade is the key to power. The best option is to have the work done at a given quality for the best possible cost.

[jasc]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 4.9 million part-time workers who want a full time position but can't get it. The unemployment rate does not say who is looking for fulltime that has part time.

But the involuntary part-time rate does

[davmac]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by davmac Originally Posted by blah why dont you go on and tell that to the family that cant feed their kids cuz the guy in India has their job. but there is a lot more opportunity in the states than there is in india. At least someone with out a job gets social assistance to feed their kids in the states, in india their kids would actually starve. Bullshit - social assistance?

it might be bullshit, but it's a hell of a lot better than the condidtions in countries such as india

[RC45]

Originally Posted by davmac Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by davmac Originally Posted by blah why dont you go on and tell that to the family that cant feed their kids cuz the guy in India has their job. but there is a lot more opportunity in the states than there is in india. At least someone with out a job gets social assistance to feed their kids in the states, in india their kids would actually starve. Bullshit - social assistance? it might be bullshit, but it's a hell of a lot better than the condidtions in countries such as india

Your point? I am here - not there.

[blah]

Social Assistance is the most bs thing ever. With politics playing a bigger and bigger role in it you would be suprised what happens. people are kicked off all the time just so the government can say that welfare use is on the decline.