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graywolf624 · 04-29-2004, 10:32 PM

What can I say.. I hope they kick the sob outta college and send his sorry ass back to puerto rico. It's one thing to not like the war in Iraq. It's a whole other story entirely to dishonor the memory of a soldier of your country.

A graduate student working on her doctorate in political science on tilman, a guy who dropped out of the nfl to go to iraq for his country (who died this week).

"Gonzalez called the former Arizona Cardinals safety a "G.I. Joe guy who got what was coming to him."
"
"That was not heroism," Gonzalez wrote. "It was prophetic idiocy.""

"He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in."
"However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. "
"You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. "
Original article (may be down due to heavy load:
http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/.../408f27f0591be
Umass president saying this jackass better apologize to the family of tilman:
http://si.printthis.clickability.com...partnerID=2356

crazidude · 04-29-2004, 10:41 PM

Well he has the right to think and believe that, but I don't think its exactly the best thing to make what he feels known to the family of the person that died. If I were to voice my opinion, I also wouldn't use such harsh words as "idiot".

graywolf624 · 04-29-2004, 10:47 PM

Well he has the right to think and believe that, but I don't think its exactly the best thing to make what he feels known to the family of the person that died. If I were to voice my opinion, I also wouldn't use such harsh words as "idiot".

Yes, but your edging towards treason to dishonor a soldier like that. You can think whatever you want.. But you don't criticize a fallen soldier. That isn't right.

crazidude · 04-29-2004, 11:00 PM

Well from his view I don't think he realises why the person made that sacrifice. When I was younger I always thought it was stupid for a person to go to war and just die, but when you realise the fact that they died protecting you or their own beliefs you pay respects. I think he will come around and realise it one day when he is fighting for whatever he believes in.

graywolf624 · 04-29-2004, 11:06 PM

Well from his view I don't think he realises why the person made that sacrifice. When I was younger I always thought it was stupid for a person to go to war and just die, but when you realise the fact that they died protecting you or their own beliefs you pay respects. I think he will come around and realise it one day when he is fighting for whatever he believes in.

He is a doctorate student in political science though. This isn't some little kid. He has to be at least 23. Makes you wonder what passes for political science in mass.

novass · 04-30-2004, 01:36 AM

Thats bullshit. Its one thing to disagree with the war but to call someone that volunteered to fight for what he believed in an idiot acting out his macho beliefs is utter crap. Thats pussy shit, not even having the balls to criticize the man while he is alive but insulting after he gave his life for the country this man lives in. I hope the football team at that school finds him and beats the fucking shit out him. What a fuckin asshole. Criticize the war all you want, but show some fucking tact and respect when talking about a fallen soldier.

exhausted mules · 04-30-2004, 03:42 AM

it sounds like this girl knew this guy personally.. or at least through media and subjective criticism. even though the peice she wrote was controversial you have to realise it was based purely on personaly opinion. she isn't discriminating against the fact this guy fought for his country, she was mearly stating that maybe, possibly his death has something to do with his previous attitude towards life and that maybe he got what was coming to him because he didn't quite see the true value in defending his country.

exhausted mules · 04-30-2004, 03:45 AM

it sounds like this girl knew this guy personally.. or at least through media and subjective criticism. even though the peice she wrote was controversial you have to realise it was based purely on personaly opinion. she isn't discriminating against the fact this guy fought for his country, she was mearly stating that maybe, possibly his death has something to do with his previous attitude towards life and that maybe he got what was coming to him because he didn't quite see the true value in defending his country.

DMbaseball1604 · 04-30-2004, 04:26 AM

this really pisses me off...if it wasn't for guys like Tillman, then this idiot would not even be able to voice her own opinion in the first place...some people dont realize how blessed they are...I wish I could go talk some sense into this person

novass · 04-30-2004, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by exhausted mules

it sounds like this girl knew this guy personally.. or at least through media and subjective criticism. even though the peice she wrote was controversial you have to realise it was based purely on personaly opinion. she isn't discriminating against the fact this guy fought for his country, she was mearly stating that maybe, possibly his death has something to do with his previous attitude towards life and that maybe he got what was coming to him because he didn't quite see the true value in defending his country.

Hmmmm....No. She did not know him personally as stated by her quote saying, "I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures." Only through the media did she know him which makes her statements even stupider. She has never met the guy yet she seems to know what he was like based upon how he looked and that he played football.

Just because it was personal opinion doesnt mean that its not horse shit. She could have easily stated her opinion in a fashion that isnt disrespectful and immature.

Junk2006 · 05-02-2004, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by DMbaseball1604

this really pisses me off...if it wasn't for guys like Tillman, then this idiot would not even be able to voice her own opinion in the first place...some people dont realize how blessed they are...I wish I could go talk some sense into this person

What the fuck are you talking about? I am tired of Americans making it sound like there the only country who have this right. Citizens of other countries have the exact same right.

I highly doubt that if Americans didn't goto Iraq they would lose their right to speak up. And this right to speak out isn't total and absolute as you will get conservative media trashing every whisper of a liberal idea (except for the liberal views I am against coincendentallty)

plus if you are against either the war or the occupation of Iraq wouldn't it be normal to think anybody in Iraq that supports the occupation or war is an idiot

graywolf624 · 05-02-2004, 10:54 PM

What the fuck are you talking about? I am tired of Americans making it sound like there the only country who have this right. Citizens of other countries have the exact same right.
I highly doubt that if Americans didn't goto Iraq they would lose their right to speak up. And this right to speak out isn't total and absolute as you will get conservative media trashing every whisper of a liberal idea (except for the liberal views I am against coincendentallty)
plus if you are against either the war or the occupation of Iraq wouldn't it be normal to think anybody in Iraq that supports the occupation or war is an idiot

I don't think anyone said other countries didnt have this right. But without the work of the people who fought for our country we would have lost our right to freedom long ago.. or never gained it at all(see hitler, see stalin, see revolutionary war). Or would you like to argue that without the US help(no we didnt do any of these alone, all parts were equally important, but without any one things would be different) we'd all be speaking german/russian/America would still be part of UK.(yet again stress the part in parentesees)
Also last time I checked other then fox most media is liberal. Or did I miss ted kopel trying to bash the war.. or the article in sportsillustrated using tilmans death to push how bad bush is? This doesnt have to do with going to iraq.. or believing in going to iraq or anything like that. This has to do with defending your country. Theres a distinction here. My father went to vietnam. He thought we were there for all the wrong reasons. That being said, he went to defend his breathern there and to be for his country. And as for our freedom.. We lost freedoms due to 911.. Fear of terrorism is a lost freedom.

Yet again.. Its one thing to criticize the choice to go to war.. But you dont criticize the soldiers. They aren't necessarily there because the believe in the cause.. Defending your country and your fellow man sometimes comes first. I come from a family with alot of military history. I take a lot of offense at someone charachterizing all our troops as "macho rambo types who get what they deserve"

Vansquish · 05-03-2004, 02:46 AM

For once I can say I agree with you Graywolf624. Having had some previous political disagreements it may come as something of a suprise, but no matter what the cause is, nor how much you disagree with it, there is no excuse for libeling the soldiers who fight for our armed forces. Whether or not they agree with the battle they are fighting, they are there, we are not. They have made the effort to do something that most people could not, and in many cases, they pay the ultimate price. Whether or not the soldiers are "Rambo-alikes" (as I'm sure some of them are) it doesn't matter. People in the U.S. armed forces go where they are told and carry out the duties to which they have been assigned. Tillman died fighting for his country and for his comrades in arms.

On the other hand, in some ways I have to congratulate the person who made the inflammatory statement that started all this. He/She has as much a right as the rest of us to carry and express opinions. Whether we agree or not is our business, and though the statement about Tillman is certainly irksome, it is just that, a statement of opinion. It takes guts to speak your mind when you know that a good chunk of the audience will disagree and likely react icily.

Either way it isn't right to dishonor the dead, no matter how much you disagree with their ideals and purpose (alright, maybe Hitler, Stalin and their like deserve the flak they get).

jakaracman · 05-03-2004, 03:32 AM

Couldn't agree with you more, Vansquish. Freedom of speech yes, but respect for the dead also. He should leave out the name and that would be it ...

jpatino03 · 05-03-2004, 05:08 AM

What about the hundreds of other soldiers who have died since 9/11? The only reason Tillman is getting recognized is because he happened to play football and be decent at it. I think that point to a bigger problem in our society and our media. Oh and he died in Afghanistan, not iraq.