motor

Evo8 · 07-10-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by nthfinity

Since we are getting into this, your first post says "338" not ".338"

Technically, it's .338", not just .338. So 338 is just as fine as .338. I intentionally made it less obvious, to test your knowledge on things that are really fast.

Have you ever worked on compents like Titanium, and exotic alloys of mixed metals? It is true, and considerably reduced quality control to well established, higher volumes produced, and cheaper metals used in production engines.

Now, you see, we're talking tuning here. Professional tuning. It implies quality control. It's impossible to reach high hp/liter ratio on a poorly built engine.

Soooooooo.... what is the weight of a stock block Skyline 2.6 from the GTR R34?

The block? ~60 kilos in the GTR.

Now, what a USian 8-litre block weighs...

nthfinity · 07-10-2008, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

The block? ~60 kilos in the GTR.

Now, what a USian 8-litre block weighs...

Kirkham Aluminum FE block (with caps) 79 pounds!
~ 35.8 KG

gobs3z · 07-10-2008, 09:17 PM

i'm just going to point out a quick fact...
most boosted engines (like Skyline, Supra, the horsepower monsters) have iron blocks which gives them the ability to put out those numbers (600hp reliably, beyond that you're playing with fire).

P.S. Iron weighs a tad more than aluminum which counters the fact that they are using smaller engines. The motor that was in my GTI (1.8L) probably weighs in at the same as the 5.7 in my RX-7, see my point? It's a give an take, none of them lack flaws.

Evo8 · 07-10-2008, 09:18 PM

Kirkham Aluminum FE block (with caps) 79 pounds!

Its walls are so thin that I doubt it even can be up-tuned at all. And they probably didn't count the liners, rings, pistons, and other basic parts of the engine going with the block.

Stock blocks are much heavier.

Iron weighs a tad more than aluminum which counters the fact that they are using smaller engines.

An engine is more than just the block. While the blocks can be lightened a lot, the rest not so much. A small engine is still much lighter.

nthfinity · 07-10-2008, 09:24 PM

A cubic foot of iron is 491 lb
a cubic foot of Aluminum is 169 lb

However, Aluminum has 1/4 the sheering forces that iron has

graywolf624 · 07-10-2008, 09:31 PM

Good point. I do. However, it's not the case: the Jap low-displacement engines are still far lighter than the USian big blocks.

Weight of an ls7 engine.. 505 bhp.. 458 lbs fully outfitted
Want to make a bet the gtrs engine is less then that.

graywolf624 · 07-10-2008, 09:32 PM

most boosted engines (like Skyline, Supra, the horsepower monsters) have iron blocks which gives them the ability to put out those numbers (600hp reliably, beyond that you're playing with fire).

Points to the ZR1s 635 bhp alluminum block.. the same alluminum block in my c6.. albeit with more exotic add ons.

Evo8 · 07-10-2008, 09:37 PM

However, Aluminum has 1/4 the sheering forces that iron has

Please, don't make my eyes bleed... Shear strength, not "sheering forces".

That is true. Aluminium doesn't take much stress. What's more, it doesn't take repeated stress as well as steel or cast iron. Steel and iron have their cycle-strength curve flat out at about 10^6 to 10^7. Aluminium has this curve much lower, sharper, and doesn't have it flat anywhere.

graywolf624 · 07-10-2008, 09:47 PM

Whats that ACDC song title.. Oh yeah.. "SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES"

Weight of a gtr engine 608 lb shttp://2009gtr.blogspot.com/2008/02/vr38dett-engine-weight.html
475 bhp

Weight of an ls7 engine 458 lbs.. 505 bhp.

Any Questions?

Evo8 · 07-10-2008, 09:50 PM

That's the four-liter one, not the two and a half liter RB26DETT.

graywolf624 · 07-10-2008, 09:53 PM

Thats the one they are producing now. The RB26DETT isn't even close to the hp output of a stock base C6.. Let alone a z06.. makes that a bit of a moot arguement don;t you think.

Evo8 · 07-10-2008, 09:59 PM

Japanese engines are normally limited to precisely 276 bhp, because it's their agreement not to make engines with more power in stock configuration. Just like all German cars are limited to 155 mph.

But "Sky" in "Skyline" pretty much stands for the limit of what you can tune them up to. And pretty much everyone does. Not to 1200hp, sure, but less than 400 is just not the way you run a Japanese car, and less than 600 is not the way you run a Skyline GT-R.

graywolf624 · 07-10-2008, 10:00 PM

Then again.. ill humour you.. weight of RB26DETT: 256 kg according the the first source i found.. thats 583 lbs.. heaver then the z06 engine still.. and 250 hp down.

graywolf624 · 07-10-2008, 10:01 PM

But "Sky" in "Skyline" pretty much stands for the limit of what you can tune them up to. And pretty much everyone does. Not to 1200hp, sure, but less than 400 is just not the way you run a Japanese car, and less than 600 is not the way you run a Skyline GT-R.

So now we are talking modified cars... that was a quick jump.

Evo8 · 07-10-2008, 10:04 PM

256kg including what, out of things that you didn't include in the 458lbs of the LS7?

And again, the stock power is limited by the agreement. No one races it with stock power, it's designed to run much higher. Drag mods go at 1300hp, but non-drag ones are easily 800-1000, and less than 600 isn't even really tuned. For the 2.6L one. I very much wonder what it will pull in the 3.8L form.

So now we are talking modified cars... that was a quick jump.

Skyline was meant to be modified. You'll be laughed out if you run a Skyline GT-R stock.

It's like Linux, there's not much "stock" in it to speak about.