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Old 05-13-2008, 10:09 PM   #16
Pokiou
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i saw ther GTR for the first time here in melbourne.. couldnt get in it as they were detailing it... what a sexy machine... seriously it stood out from the 2 Ferrari's next to it. $160.000 aud..
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Pokiou View Post
what a sexy machine... seriously it stood out from the 2 Ferrari's next to it.
Really? Sexy next to Ferraris? What'd they have there, the 400i and the GT California?
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:53 PM   #18
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nope a 355f1 and a 550.
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
Were these times/tests back top back on track at the same time? If not, then such close times on such a short circuit are meaningless if taken at different times.
On the same day. Sleggera pulled it's best time at Tsukuba while chasing GTR during 5 laps race. Both GTR & Sleggera were consistently pulling times near 1:02 during timeattack and race. Rest of the field ~ 911GT3, NSX-R, 911T were lapping near 1:05.

BM 03/2008: http://www.mininova.org/tor/396

Explain the video displays of the GT-R pushing 911T's into the dirt then?
You mean this? http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56266

explanation: GTR is faster :3

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Old 05-14-2008, 06:49 AM   #20
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explanation: GTR is faster :3
Forgive my ignorance.. But if you look at the lap times you posted they are nowhere near the track times of several other supposedly inferior cars for track 13.

As for the Superleggera difference, the telemetry data and the gtrs acceleration don't lend itself to your arguement. The GTRs acceleration over 60 mph is one of the worst. That doesnt lend itself to bigger tracks. It could still technically be made up by better suspension, but the difference your seeing isnt explained by the specs and performance elsewhere of the car. It all raises more questions.
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:30 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by graywolf624 View Post
Forgive my ignorance.. But if you look at the lap times you posted they are nowhere near the track times of several other supposedly inferior cars for track 13.
Different layout :3
They don't have a feature to accentuate which layout was used on that site so they just put all the times in one table. 1:30 range times were done on the shorter layout of the track. Over 2 minute times - on full 4.8km Road Course.

Twin Ring Motegi Road Course is the GP-class track btw. All major japanese racing series (Formula Nippon, Super GT and Super Taikyu) take place there.
Originally Posted by graywolf624 View Post
As for the Superleggera difference, the telemetry data and the gtrs acceleration don't lend itself to your arguement. The GTRs acceleration over 60 mph is one of the worst. That doesnt lend itself to bigger tracks. It could still technically be made up by better suspension, but the difference your seeing isnt explained by the specs and performance elsewhere of the car. It all raises more questions.
I'm sure GTR's virtue is not the straightline. Twin Ring Motegi race, you could see it was falling behind 911T and Lambos on the straights. But if you compare cornering capabilities, GTR was certainly superior to the others. Thing is, it was initially designed as the machine for going fast on the track and that's not a secret.

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Old 05-14-2008, 09:43 PM   #22
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I'm sure GTR's virtue is not the straightline. Twin Ring Motegi race, you could see it was falling behind 911T and Lambos on the straights. But if you compare cornering capabilities, GTR was certainly superior to the others. Thing is, it was initially designed as the machine for going fast on the track and that's not a secret
I think you missed the point.
The setup of the GTR would lend itself to tight corners where it could get out of the whole quicker because of awd and quicker low end acceleration. Now your saying the part its faster at is essentially higher speed turns. That doesnt jive for a number of reasons. First its acceleration out of the turn will be less then the other cars mentioned given its woeful acceleration from 40+. Second we go back to the few admitedly sparse tests we have.. Look at the telemetry data and compare it to the telemetry data for the other cars. If we've eliminated corner exit it has to be sustainable cornering or initial turnin speed thats driving the advantage.. So then why are the slalom and lateral g forces not off the charts. They should be if its steady state where the cars making it up. Its certainly not making it up with turn in (where the weight distribution is too foobared). So that only leaves steady state and initial bite. Again it all comes back too the times not being believable with the data given. Could it be faster yes.. Could it have the times its showing.. Well something doesnt jive.

If you do the math on Stillens telemetry data for lateral g to cause the issue the z06 lateral g would need to be .76 in relation to the amount of the gtr. We know thats not true.
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:15 PM   #23
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So, rumour is the ZR1 is posting lape times close to 7:20 this week

Does this mean the Nissan is prepping a "We ran 7:14.5s with the GT-R VSpec" press releases? hehe
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:28 PM   #24
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We ran 7:14.5s with the GT-R VSpec" press releases
I got a 5er on 7:13.. just for good measure.. lol
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Old 05-15-2008, 05:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by graywolf624 View Post
First its acceleration out of the turn will be less then the other cars mentioned given its woeful acceleration from 40+.
Wrong. Acceleration out of the corner isn't the same as straightline acceleration. The car is turning and accelerating at the same time. Basicly, slow and medium speed corner exit GTR is faster than anything. Cornering + acceleration = GTRís virtue (i would explain but tired of typing much). And if you're familar with circuit racing you should be aware that generally corner exit is much more important than corner entry...

Originally Posted by graywolf624 View Post
Second we go back to the few admitedly sparse tests we have.. Look at the telemetry data and compare it to the telemetry data for the other cars. If we've eliminated corner exit it has to be sustainable cornering or initial turnin speed thats driving the advantage.. So then why are the slalom and lateral g forces not off the charts. They should be if its steady state where the cars making it up. Its certainly not making it up with turn in (where the weight distribution is too foobared). So that only leaves steady state and initial bite. Again it all comes back too the times not being believable with the data given. Could it be faster yes.. Could it have the times its showing.. Well something doesnt jive.
Anyway if you really care so much about why/where GTR is faster as your posts suggest, thereíre several BM videos available, take your time and watch them. No need to read about the GTR, no need to discuss the GTR, no need to doubt the GTR, you can see the GTR with your own eyes! Here, iíve even posted you the links!

http://www.mininova.org/tor/396
http://www.mininova.org/tor/863

Can it get better than this?
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:23 PM   #26
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Wrong. Acceleration out of the corner isn't the same as straightline acceleration. The car is turning and accelerating at the same time. Basicly, slow and medium speed corner exit GTR is faster than anything. Cornering + acceleration = GTR’s virtue (i would explain but tired of typing much). And if you're familar with circuit racing you should be aware that generally corner exit is much more important than corner entry...
Uhm... Am I missing something. You said above that the GTR does better on larger circuits and not well on tight short circuits. As I was pointing out the AWD should make it better out of slow and medium speed corners, but you said stat wise it doesnt make it faster on a course made up as such. That's a contradiction which I was pointing out. If your first statement is true then the GTR doesn't do well on corner exit in slow and medium speed corners. A car that does well on slow and medium corners should do better on a tighter course. I also showed you that once it hits the straights it will lag behind and in steady state fast corners it's going to have problems. So where is it ahead again?

Can it get better than this?
Customer car to customer car with drivers who are known for driving both types of cars.. OH and compare it to a gt3 and a z06 instead of the turbo and NSX.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:50 PM   #27
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I think everyone is under estimating the level of grip from a AWD car... believe in me.. grip in these things are amazing grippy.. like walking on honey. I've taken corners leaving M3's ad Porsches to eat my dust...

D. you might have track experiance but you obviously have no experiance in a high powered awd car? this is just an assumption. So entry speed and exit speeds are just out teh window as some of the rules that apply to fwd and rwd cars dont apply to awd cars. Example... rally cars.

I rest my case.

Last edited by Pokiou; 05-15-2008 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:57 PM   #28
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D. you might have track experiance but you obviously have no experiance in a high powered awd car? this is just and assumption. So entry speed and exit speeds are just out teh window as some of the rules that apply to fwd and rwd cars dont apply to awd cars. Example... rally cars.
You're not going to get an arguement from me on that. That however doesn't change the fact that he said the car does better on long tracks. Entry and exit speed will help most on tight corners, not long ones.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by toffytofik View Post
Wrong. Acceleration out of the corner isn't the same as straightline acceleration. The car is turning and accelerating at the same time. Basicly, slow and medium speed corner exit GTR is faster than anything. Cornering + acceleration = GTRís virtue (i would explain but tired of typing much). And if you're familar with circuit racing you should be aware that generally corner exit is much more important than corner entry...
Uhm - now you are contradicting yourself again - we have just done being tols the GT-R is best on fast circuits, yet you just typed above Basicly, slow and medium speed corner exit GTR is faster than anything. - which is it?

ANd in "circuit racing" corner entry can easily make up for corner exit speed... witness a Caterham Superlight - lowish power but very light weight, so it carries a higher coner speed into the corner, higher mid corner speed and then does not drive out of the corner spinning it's tyres - but rather maintains a similar speed to the emtry speed - exactly the same way a 125cc 2-stroke GP bike does.

By maintaining momentum, because it does not have th epower to drive out the corner.

So - if the GT-R is best in slow to medium corners because it has the ability to drive out the corners under power.. where i sall the power?? It only makes 480bhp after all.

And if you are suggesting it rather relies on the entry and mid corner speed, where's the light weight and nimble chassis needed to pull that off?

So which is it better at? Slow to medium or high speed?

We have a couple of contradicting opinions coming the folks who have driven the car.

Originally Posted by toffytofik View Post
Anyway if you really care so much about why/where GTR is faster as your posts suggest, thereíre several BM videos available, take your time and watch them. No need to read about the GTR, no need to discuss the GTR, no need to doubt the GTR, you can see the GTR with your own eyes! Here, iíve even posted you the links!

http://www.mininova.org/tor/396
http://www.mininova.org/tor/863

Can it get better than this?
Hmm - so what are those videas trying to show? Please explain.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:04 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Pokiou View Post
I think everyone is under estimating the level of grip from a AWD car... believe in me.. grip in these things are amazing grippy.. like walking on honey. I've taken corners leaving M3's ad Porsches to eat my dust...

D. you might have track experiance but you obviously have no experiance in a high powered awd car? this is just and assumption. So entry speed and exit speeds are just out teh window as some of the rules that apply to fwd and rwd cars dont apply to awd cars. Example... rally cars.

I rest my case.
I think you are forgetting your car was not a 4000lb pig when loaded up with the driver.

You are describing a modded lightweight AWD car.

I have driven a particularly high powered AWD car, and it pushed like a muthacrusher on corner entry unless you dropped your entry speed - and it relied on its HP to drive out the corner... yet still, even with 700bhp on tap, lapped no faster than a Caterham Superlight which carried more speed into tthe bends, held it mid corner than exitted withtout the kick in the pants of the 700bhp AWD car.

No matter how you slice it - the GT-R achievd the time with either super sticky tyres or much more HP than advertised - as we know the car isnt a light weight.

I rest my case.

Last edited by RC45; 05-15-2008 at 09:14 PM.
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