motor

nthfinity · 03-15-2006, 11:45 PM

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...t=97397&page=3

Originally Posted by nthfinity
holy crap! i was wondering if you still existed! (from jabbasworld.net)

anyway... heres what i have to say:
i have tremendous respect for Gordon Murray; he is a brilliant engineer and car designer.

but the macca just does nothing for me. it was set to such a standard that nobody wanted one. every bit of practicallity designed into it has no real life practicallity... its storage space is a joke; yet by volume, it has more then enough.

it was a marketing flop, a comercial flop; and the reason why it took MB 10 years+ to allow mclaren to build a new road car... which couldn't stack upto the original... and has become a flop itself (to a lesser degree... a 400,000 car that isnt selling fast enough for the second-hand market to be behind it)

the car didnt have an actual aim at what it did best... besides become the king of top end once BMW produced one of the greatest engines we have ever seen. its not a track day car; but its not an everyday car... and as advanced as the materials were; that is where the revolutions ended. long has it been said that Ameritech took quite the financial loss in this car.

the focus of this car was lacking... but it was unique. with engineering schooling my thoughts, i should love this car... but i dont, like i love the Veyron... the F40... the F50... the Veyron is a design focus that was forced to become an engineering marvel within its own skin... that is something that Murray wouldn't have dreamt... making a car beautiful, and stupifyingly fast... and a reliable trans.

1. the car had over 300 orders when there was only to be 100 made. It was pre-sold out before it was even released. It has never had a problem selling. Even a used one on the market these days doesnt last very long.

2. It has more storange space then any supercar. Three seats. Store doors on the sides of the car. Anyways, its a supercar...want storage, buy an SUV.

3. When it was tested by Fifth Gear/Top gear...they said it was a very practical supercar. Easy to drive around town and just cruise in.

4. marketing/ commercial flop? Dude, the car pre-sold out before being released. Refer #1.

5. The car did not lose money...but nothing was made on it. The Bugatti Veyron costs $5,000,000+ to produce, but is only being sold for $1.5 million. Gordon Murray was smart. He didnt want a huge financial loss. Bugatti(VW) made a car just to beat the Mclaren. That was their only goal.

6. The Mclaren held the top speed record for 11+ years. It was made to be the ultimate supercar. It achieved that and held it for so long.

All in all. The Mclaren F1 is still the best car ever made in my opinion.

um... ok.............

but wait!

Originally Posted by nthfinity
it was set to such a standard that nobody wanted one.

I sure did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthfinity
every bit of practicality designed into it has no real life practicallity... its storage space is a joke; yet by volume, it has more then enough.

No real life practicallity? I went on a trip in a Mclaren F1 to spend a couple of days at the beach last month. With the custom luggage, there was plenty of room for our stuff.......for all THREE of us. Yes three. Try that in any other supercar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthfinity
it was a marketing flop, a comercial flop; and the reason why it took MB 10 years+ to allow mclaren to build a new road car... which couldn't stack upto the original... and has become a flop itself (to a lesser degree... a 400,000 car that isnt selling fast enough for the second-hand market to be behind it)

Marketing flop? Maybe you're thinking of the XJ220 (I like that car too), which now sells at about 1/4 it's original price by the way. The F1 is close to triple now.
And the SLR was a corporate creation, the F1 basically a singular vision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthfinity
the car didnt have an actual aim at what it did best... besides become the king of top end once BMW produced one of the greatest engines we have ever seen. its not a track day car; but its not an everyday car... and as advanced as the materials were; that is where the revolutions ended. long has it been said that Ameritech took quite the financial loss in this car.

What? The design and execution of the F1 revolved around a very specific set of goals, and the proof is right there to see.....painfully obvious. By the way, "top end" was NEVER a goal of Murray's, it was a by-product.
It's a great track car, expensive but great. Almost as fast as my Group C2 LeMans car, but with a/c.
Ameritech took a loss? Why are you talking about them? Ameritech was a small US company that did some F1 conversions to US spec, but old Dick eventually turned out to be a crook. (I owned a Ferrari he converted and F*&^ed up).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthfinity
the focus of this car was lacking... but it was unique. with engineering schooling my thoughts, i should love this car... but i dont, like i love the Veyron... the F40... the F50... the Veyron is a design focus that was forced to become an engineering marvel within its own skin... that is something that Murray wouldn't have dreamt... making a car beautiful, and stupifyingly fast... and a reliable trans.

The focus was crystal clear, and the execution nearly flawless. Are your goggles foggy?

As far as the Veyron being a beautiful "design focus that was forced to become an engineering marvel within its own skin" well........my head is spinning after that one.

im sure more to follow

sentra_dude · 03-16-2006, 12:44 AM

Why open this can of worms again? It has already been beaten to death in countless threads, every possible angle has been discussed, and no one is going to change their opinion, so what's the point?

nthfinity · 03-16-2006, 12:53 AM

1. i didn't mean to

2. i think it is quite comical

3. the F1 does suck, and people still think its the best thing since Soap

4. people need to realize #3 is correct, and it isnt the best thing since soap

sentra_dude · 03-16-2006, 01:06 AM

Just taking one quote from the FChat thread,

Originally Posted by Audiguy

Having been fortunate enough to spend several days in one, I can say with all authority that, you sir, do not know of which you speak. Driving this car is an ultimate thrill. It way surpasses "just another 90's supercar".

When hearing someone who actually drove the car say that (its FChat, so pretty good chance the guy did actually drive it) how can you say it sucks? Whatever, no point in arguing. No one needs to realize it sucks, the pro-F1 crowd and anti-F1 crowd just need to agree to disagree.

(btw, the above quote was in response to this

Originally Posted by Miura Jota
I'm sick and tired of guys claiming : Mc Laren is the world's best
just because is ridiculously expensive
just because it was made in very low numbers (about 100)

if it was produced in larger numbers then it would be just another great 90's supercar IMHO

gigdy · 03-16-2006, 02:07 AM

1. Im setting a rule for this thread

2. All posts must now be in list form.

3. I heart boobs.

nthfinity · 03-16-2006, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by gigdy

1. Im setting a rule for this thread

2. All posts must now be in list form.

3. I heart boobs.

1. your rule is heard

so what if somebody who drove it thinkts its better then soap. my logic is infallable hehe, jabba would agree... im sure on at least a few points

where is the rest of the anti-macca squad

blah · 03-16-2006, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by nthfinity

Originally Posted by gigdy

1. Im setting a rule for this thread

2. All posts must now be in list form.

3. I heart boobs.

1. your rule is heard

so what if somebody who drove it thinkts its better then soap. my logic is infallable hehe, jabba would agree... im sure on at least a few points

where is the rest of the anti-macca squad

BMW N.A V12 that took over 10 years to be beaten by forced induction, with gold plated heat shields. What isnt there to like.

LotusGT1 · 03-16-2006, 04:45 AM

Hey, you use the same retarted arguments as in the McLaren F1 topic in the "Cool Wall" section (whcih miraculously disappeared). I don't see how this is humor as your logic is obviously flawed, and your conclusions wrong. But whatever floats your boat.

LOL@thinking the Veyron comes remotely close to the F1 in terms of supercar credibility and focus.

Shinigami · 03-16-2006, 05:31 AM

I like how people who have never driven the F1, SLR, Veyron etc, have the authority to say that "they suck", based purely on the amount of cars that were/are being sold.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one should drive it before commenting on it in this way. Sucking has nothing to do with it being a commercial flop. Many cars suck, yet sell extremely well *shrug*

So, what supercar do you guys drive again

?

LotusGT1 · 03-16-2006, 06:00 AM

Ha, I've been reading the whole thread, never seen so much bullshit.

saadie · 03-16-2006, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by LotusGT1

Ha, I've been reading the whole thread, never seen so much bullshit.

Originally Posted by Shinigami

I like how people who have never driven the F1, SLR, Veyron etc, have the authority to say that "they suck", based purely on the amount of cars that were/are being sold.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one should drive it before commenting on it in this way. Sucking has nothing to do with it being a commercial flop. Many cars suck, yet sell extremely well *shrug*

So, what supercar do you guys drive again

?

you are soo right ....

but you know .. the veyron drives like crap

really ... remember when the veyron didnt come out .... during testing ... the car spun .. the driver tried to give it some traction but the wheels started spinning ... which wansnt all that much of help ...
anwyays .... F1 isnt that bad:prr:

Shinigami · 03-16-2006, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Julius

but you know .. the veyron drives like crap

really ... remember when the veyron didnt come out .... during testing ... the car spun .. the driver tried to give it some traction but the wheels started spinning ... which wansnt all that much of help ...
anwyays .... F1 isnt that bad:prr:

Funny how a guy I know drove the Veyron in the rain at over 200kph and kept perfect control of the car.

He said (and he's driven a lot of supercars), that the Veyron was simply out of this world, handled extremely well, had great grip, etc... etc...

I'll know for sure when I drive one this summer

DeMoN · 03-16-2006, 09:11 AM

I agree with ALL the responces that guy did to you from Fchat. Much more money and much less profit is obtained from the Veyron. Besides, I dont recall there being news saying "McLaren F1 needs special tires and the brakes are being checked." The Veyron had many flaws and it was delayed so many times.

The McLaren F1 got to the top speed it did, by "accident." Better put, by perfect design. The Butatti was built just to beat the top speed. That was the only thing in mind so I dont see how you can think the view for the Veyron, and the population target aim, was more clear. I dont see the McLaren F1 needing a special key to release the limiters and allow you to go top speed. Veyron is just too much junk and electronics to be a true supercar.

All in all, it took veyron 11 years and 1001 (more than TWICE) the amount of HP the F1 has to beat it. I dont call that a victory. The McLaren F1 looks prettier and has 3 seats, something NO other car has.

The only thing the veyron is the winner at is at weight, god damn it weighs a lot for being a "supercar."

For all I know, the McLaren F1 was design to be the best it could be with the available knowledge of the 90's (wasnt made for a particular group of buyers in mind like you speculate) unlike the Veyron which was just made to beat the top speed record.

mindgam3 · 03-16-2006, 11:38 AM

I think this will be a never ending arguement.

But two things to take into account:

1. The macca is the superior car

2. Number one

sameerrao · 03-16-2006, 11:58 AM

Nth your are on your own here .. McLaren F1 is a very special car built to a very unique and exacting specification. Read the book "Driving ambition" to appreciate the car's specialness.

And the point about the clutch, yes it lasts 3,000 miles but it was one of those things that would have been improved if the car remained in production for longer. And BTW, cars like the F50 also have some unique "service" requirements like changing the entire rubber fuel tank every 10 years or so.

If you can spend USD 1.3 MM on a car, you can spend $30K to service it.

Remember the car was produced at a time when there was a global collapse of the stock markets triggered from Asia - so it was a bad time to be selling million dollar supercars.