motor

graywolf624 · 04-04-2005, 08:52 PM

15 years later the ZR-1 is selling for $30,000 because it is a cheap Chevy (and then only if almost zero mileage) - yet sold new for $70,000 in the early 1990's. Just because you put a sticker on it, does not make it WORTH the price.

I bet you if you compared the depreciation on a ferrari or any number of other performance cars of that era youd find the same type of percentage decrease. I can get you a 348 for less then half of new too.. Does that mean wit was crap?

whats the point in having a 7.0 liter and making it such a high CR?

I also have to extremely disagree with this.

You do realize the old 427 qudra jet mustang engines from the 70s were all 11 to 11.5 : 1.. Yet people use to mod the hell outta those engines. You cannot make an assumption on modability of the car just yet.

zr2man99 · 04-04-2005, 09:10 PM

Wow, you said cheap a lot. I know that GM does not make cars with the same qaulity parts that euro manufacturers do, but they work. I have owned three chevys all with over 150,000 miles on them. The only chevy that has broken down on me was my '95 blazer (with 170,000 miles on the clock) and that was the water pump and it was easily fixed. I don't have the money to afford the new Z06, but if I had 100,000K to throw around I would put it on the CHEAP plastic GM. They haven't let me down so far.

I never seen someone bash their own car as much as you do RC. LOL

RC45 · 04-04-2005, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by zr2man99

Wow, you said cheap a lot. I know that GM does not make cars with the same qaulity parts that euro manufacturers do, but they work. I have owned three chevys all with over 150,000 miles on them. The only chevy that has broken down on me was my '95 blazer (with 170,000 miles on the clock) and that was the water pump and it was easily fixed. I don't have the money to afford the new Z06, but if I had 100,000K to throw around I would put it on the CHEAP plastic GM. They haven't let me down so far.

I never seen someone bash their own car as much as you do RC. LOL

Becasue the car is cheap - cheaply made, cheaply serviced and cheaply supported. Remember it sells and is serviced alongside Cavaliers. (Cobalts now - but while the Cobalt has impoved, GM hasn't and is going to have to cut even more corners now that they almost bankrupt)

Just because a car lasts 150,000 miles, doesn't mean it isn't made from cheap crap or sold by cheap dealers or backed by cheap service.

The C5 Z06 had a sticker of $52,000 - I care to have 1 person on this forum name the Chevy dealer that they think they will get "$52,000" worth of service at? Someplace where the fact you dropped about 5 times as much as their entry level car commands is still important after they cash your cheque.

When you spend a decent amount of money to by the FLAGSHIP car GM produces, the least thing you think is you would get a little "service" with the car.

But you don't.

When you take a $30,000 Lexus in for a service you get better treatment than when you take a $50 Grand Chevy in.

There is something seriously wrong with a company that wants you to rent a cavalier(sure they will refud you - but you still have to rent the car) - when Lexus provides a courtesy RX300 etc.

When you take your 5 year old C classs Benz in for a repair, they wash it for you - no questions asked.

To get a Chevy dealer to wash you car you must still be buying it, and have to remind them to wash and prep it before you sign for it. These are the problems of "owning a Chevy".

Whether $70,000 or $60,000 - it is still a lot of money to spend on a Chevy - for Chevy service and the "Chevy experience".

I have met a number of arrogant folks who BRAG about dropping $70,000 on a C5 Vert, or $70,000 on a 50th anniversary - because they feel special about the "$15,000 markup" - hell - some folks feel good about having dropped $50,000 on a Prowler - or the fools who dropped $70,000 on the new SSR.

There is always someone fool enough to pay any price for anything.

Folks, even the Viper gets discounted in order to sell... - the trick is waiting long enough until the cars price matches the "real" value of the whole deal..

So - in summation, the C6 Z06 has good numbers on paper, and will o like stink, but has a foolish price for the "entire package" you get.

Their is no denying, other than arguing the "bang for the buck" and "daily driveabilty", the C5 (and even the C6) Z06 doesn't have much else to offer. And considering they made so many compromises to keep the Z06 a "daily driver" you have to start questioning the price as it creeps upwards.

They offer super-car performance at a budget price - but even that novelty wears off once you get to live with the rest of the "package" - General Motors, the company and it's neanderthal dealer network.

gobs3z · 04-05-2005, 12:55 AM

All i know is that my friends formula blew it's engine twice(not saying why

) and they replaced it fairly quickly both times.

godspeed06 · 04-05-2005, 08:51 AM

Folks, even the Viper gets discounted in order to sell... - the trick is waiting long enough until the cars price matches the "real" value of the whole deal..

there is no such thing as "real" value... there is supply and demand and thats it. something's value is always equal to what that person pays for it. saying that a product has some "real" value and doesnt really follow the rules of supply and demand completely erodes the basis of economics. it just gets to me bc people say this kind of stuff all the time, and its wrong.

i also just want to add that you may get a free car wash bringing in your mercedes but youll be bringing that thing in a lot, so have fun with all those free car washes...

blah · 04-05-2005, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by godspeed06

Folks, even the Viper gets discounted in order to sell... - the trick is waiting long enough until the cars price matches the "real" value of the whole deal..

there is no such thing as "real" value... there is supply and demand and thats it. something's value is always equal to what that person pays for it. saying that a product has some "real" value and doesnt really follow the rules of supply and demand completely erodes the basis of economics. it just gets to me bc people say this kind of stuff all the time, and its wrong.

i also just want to add that you may get a free car wash bringing in your mercedes but youll be bringing that thing in a lot, so have fun with all those free car washes...

only had to take it in 3 times, but ive had 8 car washes

So take that.

Also what RC is trying to say is that its not about the car washes. Its the total package you get. The fact that everyone will say hello to you before you reach the showroom, and the fact that they are vulturing around as they do at domestic dealers. I hate that so much. You cant go look at a car at a domestic dealer before being attacked. Also its about how freash the cookies are, their cappachino maker, how comfortable their seats are. IF you notice at a domestic dealer they use the most uncomfortable seats known to man, but at a Merc dealer they have nice plush leather seats you can lay back and be comfortable in. DOnt even get me started on the seats they have for the Maybach section. 8)

zr2man99 · 04-05-2005, 05:28 PM

I have never been more hounded by a salesman than I was at this VW dealer I was at. I was there with a friend who was getting his car serviced. I started walking around the lot just looking around and this salesman came up and would not leave me alone. I told him I was here with a friend, but he would not listen. I eventually got hostile and told him to fuck off.

blah · 04-05-2005, 05:49 PM

the VW dealer didnt bother me at all. They asked if i wanted anything and i said no just looking, 10 minutes later i told them id like to go for a test drive, and i got to drive the R32.

zr2man99 · 04-05-2005, 05:59 PM

I guess the guy was desperate to get his commission or something.

graywolf624 · 04-05-2005, 09:14 PM

When you take a $30,000 Lexus in for a service you get better treatment than when you take a $50 Grand Chevy in.

There is something seriously wrong with a company that wants you to rent a cavalier(sure they will refud you - but you still have to rent the car) - when Lexus provides a courtesy RX300 etc.

When you take your 5 year old C classs Benz in for a repair, they wash it for you - no questions asked.

That isnt really fair to blame gm. The dealerships like the UAW hold a tremendous amount of power on its own. They dictate what the service is, not gm.

That being said I think your missing the point. No ones gonna sit here and argue gms got the best interior on the vette or even service.. But thats not what the car is about. A good correlation would be a lotus. Your buying the car for performance. Anything else and you might as well burn your money cause that isnt what its about.. If you want any more youll have to pay more money and perhaps axe the uaw.

RC45 · 04-06-2005, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by graywolf624

When you take a $30,000 Lexus in for a service you get better treatment than when you take a $50 Grand Chevy in.

There is something seriously wrong with a company that wants you to rent a cavalier(sure they will refud you - but you still have to rent the car) - when Lexus provides a courtesy RX300 etc.

When you take your 5 year old C classs Benz in for a repair, they wash it for you - no questions asked.

That isnt really fair to blame gm. The dealerships like the UAW hold a tremendous amount of power on its own. They dictate what the service is, not gm.

That being said I think your missing the point. No ones gonna sit here and argue gms got the best interior on the vette or even service.. But thats not what the car is about. A good correlation would be a lotus. Your buying the car for performance. Anything else and you might as well burn your money cause that isnt what its about.. If you want any more youll have to pay more money and perhaps axe the uaw.

OK, so thats what the Vette is about - now how about the other models on sale at that crappy GM dealer?

What do those folks have to look forward to?

graywolf624 · 04-06-2005, 09:15 PM

now how about the other models on sale at that crappy GM dealer?

Don't look at me.. Other then gm performance cars I wouldnt by gm cars period.

So I will buy a cadillac, a corvette, a camaro, a firebird, a few pontiacs, a wrx, ect

but I wont even look at.. cobalt, g6, hell.. come to think of it.. I wont look at any cars in that market segment so what the hell do I care?

RC45 · 04-06-2005, 10:29 PM

^^

Refefer · 04-06-2005, 11:54 PM

^^^ Just because it's built and serviced next to a really really shitty car (I really hate cavaliers) doesn't mean the car is "bad". Sure, they like plastic and sure they break down occasionally, but it's still a very good performance car.

Besides, I wouldn't buy a vette for its service plan, I'd buy it because I want the car and what it stands for: speed. My "Chevy Experience" would start on a drag strip and end after a quarter mile

I have met a number of arrogant folks who BRAG about dropping $70,000 on a C5 Vert, or $70,000 on a 50th anniversary - because they feel special about the "$15,000 markup" - hell - some folks feel good about having dropped $50,000 on a Prowler - or the fools who dropped $70,000 on the new SSR.

Yeah... kinda sad. I know a couple that dropped a lot of extra on a 50th anniversary also, and they considered it the best deal of their life :roll:

RC45 · 04-07-2005, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Refefer

^^^ Just because it's built and serviced next to a really really shitty car (I really hate cavaliers) doesn't mean the car is "bad". Sure, they like plastic and sure they break down occasionally, but it's still a very good performance car.

I am not so much of a snob that I have a problem with the car being near cheap Cavaliers.. far from it actually.

But I do have a problem with the car being sold and serviced by the shit Chevy dealers themselves - and GM's practice of not supporting the products they sell - or delivering service quality commensurate with the money spent.