Global warming is for real says Chief Scientist of the US

[Shinigami]

As much as I don't like the idea of man (or anything else) messing up the planet we live on, I also don't like the idea that we would have to stop everything and go back to living like peasants during the middle ages.

Now, I don't 'like' the idea of all the pollution we're putting up in the air. Even if it's not as much as what the volanoes, cows or whatever emit, you have to agree that our cities would be more pleasant without all the morning smog (my god how bad it was in Caracas and Mexico City when I went there this year... ugh).

What I really want to see, is us finally finding a clean source of fuel, one that doesn't run out, and doesn't take (a lot of) energy to harvest (for example, harvesting hydrogen takes quite a lot of energy, and this energy is made most of the time by burning fossil fuels). Wind turbine based fuel sources are not bad, but they're killing birds in some places, and also don't look appealing to some (and the energy they produce is marginal at best). Solar cells take up a sh1tload of space. etc... etc...

Fusion power would be cool if we got it working (safely and in good quantities).

Overall, I just don't like the pollution which is generated.

[tospok]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 You make those precations sound so minor. Sadly they involve millions more starving to death because of harmed economies.. Would you trade millions now for a what if 100s of years in the future?

Who do you think will die if we dont produce, millions of cars, computers, weapons, cloth etc. that we dont ever need.

Who consumes those will not be affected if they dont; and millions and even billions are already starving now and do not use any smallest bit of what we produce today.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by tospok Originally Posted by graywolf624 You make those precations sound so minor. Sadly they involve millions more starving to death because of harmed economies.. Would you trade millions now for a what if 100s of years in the future? Who do you think will die if we dont produce, millions of cars, computers, weapons, cloth etc. that we dont ever need. Who consumes those will not be affected if they dont; and millions and even billions are already starving now and do not use any smallest bit of what we produce today.

You seem to think in small terms, and have no idea how economies can flurish, or die. Why don't we go back to the GW debate, where that is easily disproved with overwhelming evidence that Al Gore doesn't want you to see.

And Coloradosilver/ Shinigami (sorry if I spelled that bad)
Pollutants are real... but not all pollutants are real. C02 is not a pollutant. Hydrogen sulfides, and surfer dioxide are the no.1 contributer to heavy smog like seen in China, and other 3rd world nations... things like that should have a cap on them, like they do in our prosperous countries.

[tospok]

Originally Posted by nthfinity You seem to think in small terms, and have no idea how economies can flurish, or die. Why don't we go back to the GW debate, where that is easily disproved with overwhelming evidence that Al Gore doesn't want you to see. And Coloradosilver/ Shinigami (sorry if I spelled that bad) Pollutants are real... but not all pollutants are real. C02 is not a pollutant. Hydrogen sulfides, and surfer dioxide are the no.1 contributer to heavy smog like seen in China, and other 3rd world nations... things like that should have a cap on them, like they do in our prosperous countries.

You guys seem not to understand that no one will die if economies dies, but everyone will die if environment dies. Plus I have nothing to do with Al Gore, I live in another country, and all the countries except USA accepts GW.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by tospok Originally Posted by nthfinity You seem to think in small terms, and have no idea how economies can flurish, or die. Why don't we go back to the GW debate, where that is easily disproved with overwhelming evidence that Al Gore doesn't want you to see. And Coloradosilver/ Shinigami (sorry if I spelled that bad) Pollutants are real... but not all pollutants are real. C02 is not a pollutant. Hydrogen sulfides, and surfer dioxide are the no.1 contributer to heavy smog like seen in China, and other 3rd world nations... things like that should have a cap on them, like they do in our prosperous countries. You guys seem not to understand that no one will die if economies dies, but everyone will die if environment dies. Plus I have nothing to do with Al Gore, I live in another country, and all the countries except USA accepts GW.

WHOA WHOA WHOA,

millions will die if economies die man.

HAHA, Sorry mate, but just because some country's general population accepts it does not make it true.

If you have cancer, do you ask your cobbler what your options are?

Maybe not your cobbler, maybe you ask the local waitress?

hmm... maybe not, maybe you should ask what to do about this cancer to a college educated person.... perhaps a history professor?

Ah, by now you are getting the point. You ask a climatologist and meteorologist, and research scientists...such as myself.

Yes, I have been a research scientist working with the National Weather Service.


OK....
Now lets go on about "un" aswered GW questions.

1. Today, our C02 concentration is roughly 385 parts per million in the air... keep in mind this .0385% of the air.
~~~~ Four separate times in the last 400 years, the c02 concentration has exceeded 400 parts per million, including one of these times in the early 1600's.... long before the industrial revolution.

2. 1000 years ago, the earth's global average temperature was 5-6 degrees warmer then it is today, and the c02 concentration was higher.

3. The famous AL-Gore C02 over time graph showing similar trends... when closely analyzed by an independent research firm, found the trends are as follows: Several years after the global temperature increase, concentration of c02 in the atmosphere increases.... not the other way around.

4. Why is there a similar rate of GW on Mars, and the other atmospheric planets? Have we industrialized there too?
~~~~ The Max Plank Institute in Germany found that the output of the sun has actually increased by .5? (maybe its .05%) per year for the last 20+ years in output.

5. The thoughts 30 years ago were that we were heading into a ice age based on scientific temperature trends... how could it be so vastly different in just 30 years?

6. The UN GW document says exactly this in summery: the effects of man made GW will be minimal compared to other reports. Over the last 100 years, we have a raised Global temperature of 1 degree Centigrate +- .6 degrees C.... so, a maximum raise of 1.6 degrees Centigrate, and a minimum of .4 degrees Centigrate.

7. Many temperature probe stations around the world have remained in the same place for more then 1/2 a century... many of these locations have become urbanized, and have been proven to be skewing the results by improper placement... such as near an methane open flame by an oil pump, by air conditioning vents....
~~~ in case you never knew, the ground temperature in a city will be 2-4 degrees warmer at all times in centigrade compared to outlying undeveloped regions.

8. Arctic ice disappearing? It's summer Antarctic ice is growing!
~~~ GW scientists looking to measure the ice (in the summer mind you... this past summer) had to abandon their expedition as the "Ice was too thick"

9. The most awarded, and educated climate scientist in the world, Dr. Roy Spencer has said some very undisputed and widely accepted statements... such as "water vapor is the single greatest contributor to maintaining, cooling, or raising the earth's temperature." ... furthermore ..." we have no model which can predict precipitation beyond a few days."

10. Water level.... it was predicted long ago that the Ice caps would melt, raising the mean (average) sea level. To date, the easiest location to measure change in sea level are barely-above-sea-level islands near the equator. To date, predictions would suggest that they are almost underwater based on ice-melt predictions... yet it hasn't lost much, if any shoreline.

11. The UN Scientific consensus on Global Warming: whoa.... there is a growing list of names on that list of people who do not approve of the so-called scientific consensus.

I don't even know where to start about the lives that are lost due to fears of "stopping" environmental damage from GW causing industry in 3rd world nations economies... perhaps, if you remember that DDT, a pesticide was banned in 1972 being used in Africa because of fears of birth defects... no deaths, and not one existant human incident of birth defects.

Since then, a controlled disease went rampant, and uncontrolled in almost no time... today, those controlled diseases have caused 50,000,000 deaths since 1972.... all because some whacko's out there will believe anything.

[tospok]

OK dude.

First of all I am quite a well educated person, and an engineer, but that doesn't matter.

I just want to state that by stopping unnecessary, luxury production, which accounts for too much of todays production, no one will die. I don't say stop producing food, not medicine, not science, but please use energy efficiently. Don't buy things that you dont need. No one needs a 6 lt car (despite I would love to have one ), no one needs 100 pairs of shoes, no one needs a holiday at Hawaii, they are all luxury. If wealth is divided wisely between human beings, everyone can be much happier without threatening the lives of our sons. Dont forget that today richest 20 percent of the World's Population have 85 % of all money.

I will not write a word in this topic now on. Some guys think that we are assaulting them by warning about our future.

I hope GW is not true. I hope no one will ever suffer. But if anyone will, I hope the first ones to suffer to be the ones that ignore.
Bye

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by tospok OK dude. First of all I am quite a well educated person, and an engineer, but that doesn't matter. I just want to state that by stopping unnecessary, luxury production, which accounts for too much of todays production, no one will die. I don't say stop producing food, not medicine, not science, but please use energy efficiently. Don't buy things that you dont need. No one needs a 6 lt car (despite I would love to have one ), no one needs 100 pairs of shoes, no one needs a holiday at Hawaii, they are all luxury. If wealth is divided wisely between human beings, everyone can be much happier without threatening the lives of our sons. Dont forget that today richest 20 percent of the World's Population have 85 % of all money. I will not write a word in this topic now on. Some guys think that we are assaulting them by warning about our future. I hope GW is not true. I hope no one will ever suffer. But if anyone will, I hope the first ones to suffer to be the ones that ignore. Bye

Ok

how about this food for thought.

You speak of the redistribution of wealth. This is a scary prospect.

You speak of getting rid of the things that makes life enjoyable to some additional degree. You spend your life to work... to eat, to have your piece of the pie. You worked hard for it, you deserve it. You want to live with a little more luxury.... you want that big screen high-def 1080p TV, you want that sportscar... the way you are talking is you want the government to come in and tell you cannot have these things, you are only allowed to have some sort of "Credits" system that you are allowed to spend.

If there isn't something better out there, what reason is there for you to succeed in life? why would you ever spend time to better yourself, or your social position in the world?

It's consumers who drive the success of the world economy... control the consumers, destroy the economy, and you end up with the "commie bocks".... which doesn't work.

Don't destroy my ability to drive, and buy what I want, nor to have monetary success.

If you saw that a business man who in today's society is driving an Enzo, was suddenly cut down to driving a VW, and living in a small home because that is fair... what would motivate you to do "your part" in society?

the Free(er) Market determines who is best, and what is best... the consumer drives that market.

[graywolf624]

just want to state that by stopping unnecessary, luxury production, which accounts for too much of todays production, no one will die. I don't say stop producing food, not medicine, not science, but please use energy efficiently. Don't buy things that you dont need. No one needs a 6 lt car (despite I would love to have one ), no one needs 100 pairs of shoes, no one needs a holiday at Hawaii, they are all luxury. If wealth is divided wisely between human beings, everyone can be much happier without threatening the lives of our sons. Dont forget that today richest 20 percent of the World's Population have 85 % of all money.

Your picking and choosing what part of the economy you kill. The problem is.. The world and economics dont work like that.. Kill the economy and you dont just take all the money out of Bill Gates pocket.

You also take the money out of medical research, charital contributions, food production, housing loans, hell.. even energy efficiency research.

In fact do some research.. The rich are the most resilent to financial down turns. The poor are hit even more.. Why? Cause if the rich withhold money.. They dont buy those cars, those planes, etc... Who do you think makes those cars, planes, etc and staffs them... Where do they find jobs? How do they feed their families.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by tospok OK dude. First of all I am quite a well educated person, and an engineer, but that doesn't matter. I just want to state that by stopping unnecessary, luxury production, which accounts for too much of todays production, no one will die. I don't say stop producing food, not medicine, not science, but please use energy efficiently. Don't buy things that you dont need. No one needs a 6 lt car (despite I would love to have one ), no one needs 100 pairs of shoes, no one needs a holiday at Hawaii, they are all luxury. If wealth is divided wisely between human beings, everyone can be much happier without threatening the lives of our sons. Dont forget that today richest 20 percent of the World's Population have 85 % of all money. I will not write a word in this topic now on. Some guys think that we are assaulting them by warning about our future. I hope GW is not true. I hope no one will ever suffer. But if anyone will, I hope the first ones to suffer to be the ones that ignore. Bye

Here is just 1 quesiton I want to see an "educated engineer" answer:

How do you propose the starving homeless millions in Africa get fresh water, electricity and food if you wont let them build cheap coal and/or oil fired power stations?

[Mattk]

How do you propose the starving homeless millions in Africa get fresh water, electricity and food if you wont let them build cheap coal and/or oil fired power stations?

Exactly. I think this was in a Washington Post column some months ago. Governments aren't giving aid to build these things because it'll harm the environment. Fuck the environment. We need to help the people!

[Pokiou]

Yea, help me get my first exotic.. transfer money to my account !!!!