Any1 from Turkey to help verify this translation?

[zondamaniac]

Msia is not that bad, its the leadership. RC45 you should visit Asia by yourself, not read the CIA stories.

about the corruption thing, i think someone else answered you. But what do i know, i'm from the 3rd world country.

anyway, i'm still waiting for any member from Turkey to tell me about the Hurriyet.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by zondamaniac Msia is not that bad, its the leadership. RC45 you should visit Asia by yourself, not read the CIA stories. about the corruption thing, i think someone else answered you. But what do i know, i'm from the 3rd world country. anyway, i'm still waiting for any member from Turkey to tell me about the Hurriyet.

ABout the corruption you never answered my quesiton. :roll:

[BADMIHAI]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by Mattk I see you have read the CIA guide quite closely. That thing makes the world seem like such a bad place. The trafficking is a serious thing, but the other stuff is a bit exaggerated. My sister spent 5 years teaching english in Taiwan and toured extensively in the region - in her words the entire region is a dichotomous shithole cesspoll of 1st world eletronics and limited wealth and 3rd world poverty and squalor.

That sounds about right. It's the same feeling I got in South Africa.

[666fast]

Meh, all countries have shitholes. Some just hide it better than others.

Head on into North Minneapolis. Just keep your windows up and doors locked.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by 666fast Meh, all countries have shitholes. Some just hide it better than others. Head on into North Minneapolis. Just keep your windows up and doors locked.

Yeah but South Africa and Minnesota don't rivers of raw sewage and millions of lawless street urchins and human slave and sex trade as a source of GDP...

[Mattk]

^Neither does Malaysia, so what are you on about?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk ^Neither does Malaysia, so what are you on about?

Not in the wealthy shiny glossy face that is carefully presented to the world... all sky scrapers and highrise spledor and oppullant corruption.

The vile foul corrupt cruel and torturous illegal under world of Malaysia is very different.. much like the SUltancy of Brunei... guess you wouldn't believe they traffic in human flesh as well...

[Mattk]

Look, with your persistent negativity, America would be full of racial intolerance, oppression of the underpriveleged etc. Have you even been to Malaysia?

As it stands, Malaysia makes most of its money through trade in technology and tourism, I would assume.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Mattk Look, with your persistent negativity, America would be full of racial intolerance, oppression of the underpriveleged etc. Have you even been to Malaysia?

What the hell are you basing your opinon off of here? Never once has RC suggested anything of the nature, ever.

It is your misguided view that perhaps sees it that way; but you would be hard pressed to find such an opinion that he has ever suggested.

opression of the underpriviliged?

for a farce analogy...

In one of the worst slums in the continent of Africa, a charitable group with more then enough funds decided to change the slum into a good living environement....

they actively saught out the worst of the worst to change around.

just a few years after completion, this new housing, andjobs development has turned right back into slum, with the same people choosing NOT to work, and instead do exactly what they had done before.

is that opression? that isn't opression my friend; it is just the opposite, and it is the kind of slap in the face that the world community needs to see the errors of it's socialist ways.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk Look, with your persistent negativity, America would be full of racial intolerance, oppression of the underpriveleged etc. Have you even been to Malaysia? As it stands, Malaysia makes most of its money through trade in technology and tourism, I would assume.

What about those thousands of humans traded into slavery?

http://www.unicef.org/malaysia/protection_4197.html

That's an aweful lot of orginizations to help prevent human traficcing and exploitatin of children for one country.

I mean, if Malaysia was this perfect Utopia you make it out to be why on earth woulkd they need all these groups?

Note bold below - "wealthy and prosperous" in that region of the world does not mean civilzed and humane

http://www.unicef.org/indonesia/Fact..._Indonesia.pdf

1 FACTSHEET ON COMMERCIAL SEXUAL EXPLOITATION AND TRAFFICKING OF CHILDREN The facts • Global figures: • An estimated 1.2 million children are trafficked each year • Most of them (girls and boys) are trafficked for sexual exploitation • As many as 2 million children are sexually exploited around the world annually • The trafficking industry generates 12 billion dollars annually (ILO) • East Asia and Pacific Figures: • Largest number of children and women trafficked worldwide are in or from Asia. (Under-)estimations range from 250,000 to 400,000 (30% of the global estimated number) • All countries are affected- domestic/cross-border/overseas trafficking and originating, transiting or receiving countries • Indonesia : • In Indonesia, though young girls often overstate their age, it is estimated that 30% of female prostitutes are below 18 years old. Some are as young as 10 years. An estimated 40,000-70,000 children are victims of sexual exploitation, and an estimated 100,000 children trafficked every year. • The vast majority of them have been forced into the sex trade • Domestic/cross-border/overseas trafficking and originating country • Increased trafficking of children both domestically and abroad • Main destinations for trafficked children abroad areMalaysia, Singapore, Brunei, Taiwan, Japan and Saudi Arabia • Sexual tourism is an issue in tourist destinations such as Bali and Lombok • Wide range of prostitution places-brothels, karaokes, massage parlours, malls, etc • Majority of customers are locals • Trends : • Increase in numbers of children sexually exploited • Younger children • New vulnerable groups (displaced children, etc.) • HIV/AIDS pandemic growth 2 UNICEF work in Indonesia: Building a protective environment for children • Legal framework: • Trafficking and sexual exploitation of children identified as one of the four priority areas in the Bali Declaration at the 6th EAP Ministerial Consultation on Children (May 2003). • The Government of Indonesia has signed, but not ratified yet, the Optional protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution and Child Pornography. • UNICEF works on the law enforcement side to ensure its compliance with the CRC, and with the best interest of the child in mind. • With UNICEF`s support, Indonesia has adopted a Child Protection Law no.23/2002, which provides a comprehensive legal framework to protect children from abuse, violence, exploitation and discrimination. • To better prevent children from falling victims of sexual exploitation and trafficking, UNICEF supports legal reform such as the adoption and implementation of the National Plan of Action (NPA) against CSEC and the NPA against trafficking in 2002. • At provincial level, a Provincial Plan of Action against CSEC and Child Labour was adopted in East Java and drafted in West and Central Java. • A draft bill on Trafficking of Women and Children has been drafted. • Regional cooperation: • Indonesia is part of the East Asia and Pacific countries who have adopted the EAP Regional Action Plan and Commitment against Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children in October 2001. • However, there is a lack of legal cooperation between Indonesia and destination countries. Only limited MOUs have been signed between provinces (such as West Kalimantan and Sarawak province in Malaysia) • Capacity building: • UNICEF supports training of law enforcers (police, judges, prosecutors) on child protection. International technical expertise (for eg. from New-Zealand and France) supports this capacity building effort. • Improving knowledge base: • UNICEF supported an in-depth participatory research on CSEC in 2 districts (Indramayu and Surakarta). • Beside the promotion of education for girls, training and employment opportunities are being provided to children at risk of exploitation in collaboration with the hotel industry. UNICEF works together with the government and private sector to promote a better access to education for vulnerable children and to provide alternative vocational training for children and young people at-risk of exploitation. 3 • Supporting community-based child protection networks in selected provinces (West Java, Central Java, South Sulawesi, NTB, NTT, North Sumatra). These networks advocate government and community organizations on child protection issues and monitor violations of child rights. • Piloting community-based initiatives to prevent CSEC and trafficking: • At district level, UNICEF, in collaboration with its counterparts, is developing preventive programmes on CSEC in 2 districts (Indramayu and Solo). The objective of the project is to raise awareness and gain the commitment of communities on local actions to address the issue of children involved in the commercial sex trade. The first step was to conduct a qualitative assessment of commercial sexual exploitation of children to understand the extent of the problem, and the contributing factors. A local network has contributed towards the assessment and is responsible for disseminating its results to the local government, NGOs, media and the community. A community-supported monitoring system will be developed to track at risk children and groups and prevent children from becoming involved in the commercial sex trade. This will include working with children, parents and communities to raise awareness on the risks and to identify better alternatives. • Monitoring: • In collaboration with the Ministry of Women`s Empowerment and the police, UNICEF supports the development of a monitoring system on CSEC and trafficking. This activity is linked to the monitoring of implementation of regional commitments against CSEC signed by Indonesia. Definitions �� Sale of children means any act or transaction w hereby a child is transferred by any person or group of persons to another for remuneration or any other consideration. �� Child prostitution means the use of a child in sexual activities for remuneration or any other form of consideration. �� Child pornography means any representation, by whatever means, of a child engaged in real or simulated explicit sexual activities or any representation of the sexual parts of a child for primarily sexual purposes. �� 'Trafficking’ refers to the illegal transport of human beings, in particular women and children, for the purpose of selling them or exploiting their labour. 4 Resources Sexual Exploitation of Children/Child Prostitution ECPAT International (End Child Prostitution, Child Pornography and Trafficking of Children for Sexual Purposes) http://www.ecpat.net/ World Congress against Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children http://www.csecworldcongress.org/ Focal Point against Sexual Exploitation of Children http://www.focalpointngo.org/Global/English/Home_en.htm Innocence in Danger http://www.innocenceindanger.org/innocence/index.html) The International Society for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect http://www.ispcan.org Forced and Bonded Labour International Programme on the Elim ination of Child Labour http://www.ilo.org/public/english/st...ipec/index.htm Anti-Slavery International (Child Labour) http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/...hildlabour.htm Relevant articles of the Convention on the Rights of the Child Article 34: “States Parties undertake to protect the child from all forms of sexual exploitation and sexual abuse. For these purposes, States Parties shall in particular take all appropriate national, bilateral and multilateral measures to prevent: (a) The inducement or coercion of a child to engage in any unlawful sexual activity; (b) The exploitative use of children in prostitution or other unlawful sexual practices; (c) The exploitative use of children in pornographic performances and materials.” Article 11(1): “States Parties shall take measures to combat the illicit transfer and non-return of children abroad.” Article 35: “States Parties shall take all appropriate national, bilateral and multilateral measures to prevent the abduction of, the sale of or traffic in children for any purpose or in any form.” 5 Trafficking of Children The Protection Project http://www.protectionproject.org/ United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime http://www.unodc.org International Organization for Migration http://www.iom.int/en/w hat/counter_human_trafficking.shtml Office of the UN High Commissioner on Human Rights (Recommended Principles and Guidelines on Human Rights and Human Trafficking) http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/trafficking.doc Trafficking in Persons: A Gender and Rights Perspective http://www.unifem.undp.org/global_sp...e_se_asia.html

[Mattk]

What the hell are you basing your opinon off of here?

RC's persistent desire to see the worst in every situation. Yes, Malaysia has a problem with human trafficking and corruption in officialdom. I never denied that. However, that's not to say that the vast majority of Malaysians are evil people who download child porn and have sex with little kids.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk What the hell are you basing your opinon off of here? RC's persistent desire to see the worst in every situation. Yes, Malaysia has a problem with human trafficking and corruption in officialdom. I never denied that. However, that's not to say that the vast majority of Malaysians are evil people who download child porn and have sex with little kids.

No - but hte entire country needs to work towards picking themselves up out of the dark ages with regard to human dignity and the value of human life.

The wealthier the 3rd world country citizen, the more blatant the inhumanity and corruption - in this I am right and you are wrong

[Mattk]

The wealthier the 3rd world country citizen, the more blatant the inhumanity and corruption - in this I am right and you are wrong

In many cases, yes, but I wouldn't be too sure that every rich bloke in the third world has been engaging in human exploitation and corruption. You could say the wealthier the person is, the more likely he is to be corrupt etc.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk You could say the wealthier the person is, the more likely he is to be corrupt etc.

But then that wouldn't further my agenda now, would it??

[666fast]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by 666fast Meh, all countries have shitholes. Some just hide it better than others. Head on into North Minneapolis. Just keep your windows up and doors locked. Yeah but South Africa and Minnesota don't rivers of raw sewage and millions of lawless street urchins and human slave and sex trade as a source of GDP...

You win this round Mr Grinch.

A little birdy once told me that most of the amazing work we drool over in Dubai is being built by virtual slaves. I'm just saying.