Read em and weep...

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Neema702 i live in the great city of sugar land, right next to you. and although i dont have the pics or vids to prove it, i have ridden in a C5 Z06, and although ive never even seen the F430 in person, i have ridden in a 360, and i gotta tell you RC45... the Z06 is a beast, but that 360 is something else. the feel of a 360, far outweights the grunt of a Z06.

Feel schmeel..

The car behind is still slower..

But if image is important, then have at it.

[Neema702]

lol... well said RC

[RC45]

Actually it would and did.

There are back to back tests September 1988 for example - the 214hp 911 Club Sport vs 245hp C4 Z51 had the Vette the clear winner by Car & Drivers tests

April 1991 the 285hp C4 ZR1 vs top dog 315hp 911 Turbo was again crowned the overall (including handling again) winner..

They may be old and plastic - but they werer not all dogs

And again in December 2004, the C6 Z51 fairly clobbered the 911 Carrera...

[Neema702]

not sure about the C4 comparisons, but as for the C6, the vette only won by one point, and 5 of those were from value. if you look at powertrain, they both scored 46 out of 50, and if you look at chassis (performance, steering feel, etc...) the porsche got a 59 out of 60, while the vette got a 53 out of 60.

both still great cars, but the porsche has that "feel and response" i was talking about earlier...

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Neema702 not sure about the C4 comparisons, but as for the C6, the vette only won by one point, and 5 of those were from value. if you look at powertrain, they both scored 46 out of 50, and if you look at chassis (performance, steering feel, etc...) the porsche got a 59 out of 60, while the vette got a 53 out of 60. both still great cars, but the porsche has that "feel and response" i was talking about earlier...

Feel and response is subjective.

The article Dec 04 C&D article is about as biased as it can be.

The fac is the C6 Z51 blew the Carrera out of the water on every count. They then loaded subject "feelings" to skew the numbers. I mean reading the article it is so obvious they begrudgingly gave hte C6 Z51 the win.

The first say the Vette is the obvious choice, faster lighter, quicker, turns better, stops better and is $20K cheaper.. then they go on about some other crap.

The bottom line is EVERY Carrera owner I have EVER met - bar none - got the car to show they could afford it and have "reached" that certain staiton.

Period.

Very few have the balls to admit they bought the "image" that Porsche portrays.

If they really wanted a true "sports car" they would have bought something faster and or cheaper.

Some people have so much money they get "Silver Spooned" into the "image" thing... more power to them, but they will also have the latest and greatest TV, stereo and clothes - as well as do all the "image correct" things with their spare time..
Again, more power to them.

But to try and pass of a winner/loser in any comparison as the "one with the high society image" as the winner - is just stupid - and elitist...

But - hey more power to you.

If you have the money and you were raised that way - flaunt it.

If you don't really care about what other people think or say, you will choose what you like - without any need for justification

This is true for watches, cars, houses, jewelry and clothes and any other material possesions you car to value yourslef by.

Sadly, some people even choose life partners by these criteria.

[Mers]

Cool stats....I like the corvettes....however, personally, i'd rather have a 911....but it'as a great car...

[graywolf624]

Feel is subjective of course.

[nthfinity]

I must say tough its kind of pathtetic to try and make the vette out to be more than it is in Lemans dude....the few wins the vette got are nothing compared to other manufactors.....and if you think Porsche are afraid to face the vette you are in lala land......

im sure stuttgart isnt very worried, but 911 sales are currenly down, while vette sales are up

to begin with, the vette is a highly tuned engine making a fair amount of power while still being reliable... the small block has 50 years of development, where they have had reliability for far longer then a new engine made for the new model poseur car.

next, the chassis, and suspension are simply beyond the development of european competition, all without the high d/f aero development.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo I must say tough its kind of pathtetic to try and make the vette out to be more than it is in Lemans dude....the few wins the vette got are nothing compared to other manufactors.....and if you think Porsche are afraid to face the vette you are in lala land...... :roll:

I missed this one...

Remember the Vette has an 80% win record at Le Mans... They only tried what, 5 times.. (maybe 6) and have won it 4 times. Not bad for a loser plastic car with no history...

[Shinigami]

Very good numbers from the Vette. Good to see there's some great strides being made in the American automotive industry.

However, having said that...

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by Caplax40 Whoa. That's a lot of hostility to a guy with an opposing view. I would think that a moderator would show a little more respect and maturity. Not one iota of hostility. the Relpy is peppered with smiling emoticons.

Just my two cents, but you use smilie emoticons to such a degree, they completely lose their meaning when reading your posts

Everytime I read one of them, it gives me a feeling you're not only taking the reader for an idiot, but at the same time you're trying to kiss up and make friends by adding a wink at the end

And he's not the only one who thinks that as a mod, your behaviour is less then amusing and turns me off the forum

You insult others on a very frequent basis (in this very thread too) and of course you find the need to add a wink at the very end of the sentence (not just post) as a little reminder of "whack, I hit you. Oh, I'm sorry, it was just a joke" type of attitude

Just my two cents... in any case, you'll reply to this with another one of your 'witty' remarks, insult me a bit, and of course you'll add another smilie at the end

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami And he's not the only one who thinks that as a mod, your behaviour is less then amusing and turns me off the forum

Maybe you are just a hyper sensitive Euro-type and need to lighten up - then again you could just be a stuckup prick.. :roll:

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami You insult others on a very frequent basis (in this very thread too) and of course you find the need to add a wink at the very end of the sentence (not just post) as a little reminder of "whack, I hit you. Oh, I'm sorry, it was just a joke" type of attitude

Maybe you are just a hyper sensitive Euro-type and need to lighten up - then again you could just be a stuckup prick.. :roll:

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami Just my two cents... in any case, you'll reply to this with another one of your 'witty' remarks, insult me a bit, and of course you'll add another smilie at the end

Apparently you are just a hyper sensitive Euro-type and a stuckup prick.

Although, it is more likely you just have a superior image of yourself - and the slovenly behaviour of someone not priviledged to be at your executive social station in life probably bothers you even more - I mean no doubt you have more serious and pressing money making engagments than reading my crap anyway.

If you don't like to read my comments don't bother. :fist:

Oh - and that's not a smiley - it is an actual insult. :roll:

P.S. 9 times out of 10 the reader is an idiot. Again - notice there is no smiley.

[zondaland]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami And he's not the only one who thinks that as a mod, your behaviour is less then amusing and turns me off the forum Maybe you are just a hyper sensitive Euro-type and need to lighten up - then again you could just be a stuckup prick.. :roll: Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami You insult others on a very frequent basis (in this very thread too) and of course you find the need to add a wink at the very end of the sentence (not just post) as a little reminder of "whack, I hit you. Oh, I'm sorry, it was just a joke" type of attitude Maybe you are just a hyper sensitive Euro-type and need to lighten up - then again you could just be a stuckup prick.. :roll: Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami Just my two cents... in any case, you'll reply to this with another one of your 'witty' remarks, insult me a bit, and of course you'll add another smilie at the end Apparently you are just a hyper sensitive Euro-type and a stuckup prick. Although, it is more likely you just have a superior image of yourself - and the slovenly behaviour of someone not priviledged to be at your executive social station in life probably bothers you even more - I mean no doubt you have more serious and pressing money making engagments than reading my crap anyway. If you don't like to read my comments don't bother. :fist: Oh - and that's not a smiley - it is an actual insult. :roll: P.S. 9 times out of 10 the reader is an idiot. Again - notice there is no smiley.

Maybe you're just an arrogant American
On second thoughts not possible after all Americans and their products are the best the world has to offer

[Neema702]

hey RC, feel free to talk shit about me too for what im about to say. but shit man, calm down a little bit. your getting way to defensive over subject matter that doesnt mean anyhting. we are all just expressing opinions, but i have a feeling u think ur opinions are facts.

the only reason i even brought up the numbers from the C/D article was because of your statement: "And again in December 2004, the C6 Z51 fairly clobbered the 911 Carrera...", then you go on to say "The fac is the C6 Z51 blew the Carrera out of the water on every count. They then loaded subject "feelings" to skew the numbers. I mean reading the article it is so obvious they begrudgingly gave hte C6 Z51 the win." Now... these are staright up opinions, and cant be backed with any hard evidence, unless of course you know the writers of the article and can have them come explain it to us themselves.

your clowning on people because they have a different opinion then you, and thats not cool. if you wanna defend your argument, do it with style and maturity, not thru belittleing and put-downs.


and if you think about it... to say something like "P.S. 9 times out of 10 the reader is an idiot. Again - notice there is no smiley." just shows a lack of character. your insulting 90% of the people that respond to this forum and thats not cool. because ill tell you one thing, i may be 21, but im also a graduate from the # 1 accounting program in the country (McCombs School of Business at UT Austin), an Internal Auditor for HP and getting ready to go to a top 15 law school, so lets not throw out insults when you dont know people. those 9 out of 10 you mentioned, might actually be very highly achieved and intelligent individuals that just might not want to fight with you.

[Neema702]

nthfinity next, the chassis, and suspension are simply beyond the development of european competition, all without the high d/f aero development.

are you fucking serious....!

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Neema702 hey RC, feel free to talk shit about me too for what im about to say. but shit man, calm down a little bit. your getting way to defensive over subject matter that doesnt mean anyhting. we are all just expressing opinions, but i have a feeling u think ur opinions are facts.

ACtually when facts are facts - thats what they are.

Opinions are just that.

Disprove a SINGLE fact I offer - if you can.

However, people are free to have whatever opinion they choose.

Oh - and I am quite calm - but I will still call an idiot an idiot if they can't accept a fact.

Such as X is lighter than Y - or X is faster than Y - or X stps quicker than Y - or X is cheaper than Y.

If you don't like X - That is your opinion - but the FACTS of X vs Y are plain and measured.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Neema702 the only reason i even brought up the numbers from the C/D article was because of your statement: "And again in December 2004, the C6 Z51 fairly clobbered the 911 Carrera...", then you go on to say "The fac is the C6 Z51 blew the Carrera out of the water on every count. They then loaded subject "feelings" to skew the numbers. I mean reading the article it is so obvious they begrudgingly gave hte C6 Z51 the win." Now... these are staright up opinions, and cant be backed with any hard evidence, unless of course you know the writers of the article and can have them come explain it to us themselves.

Read the article and YOU see the words on paper - complete with contradictions of "feeling".

Again - not disputable.

See - before I bother posting something, I verify that is it factul.

Period.

Originally Posted by Neema702 your clowning on people because they have a different opinion then you, and thats not cool. if you wanna defend your argument, do it with style and maturity, not thru belittleing and put-downs.

Kiss my arse MF. Theres your "style".

Lemme guess - you drive an Audi because it is more stylish than a Camry. :roll:

Originally Posted by Neema702 and if you think about it... to say something like "P.S. 9 times out of 10 the reader is an idiot. Again - notice there is no smiley." just shows a lack of character. your insulting 90% of the people that respond to this forum and thats not cool.

There's no smiley because this is just about true.

Many people respond as if they know something different to what has been measured and quanitified - when in fact they are stating an opinion as if it is fact.

When I state an opinion I make it clear that's what it is .

But when I post a fact - that's what it is - until someone shows a different result form a different test.

Period.

Originally Posted by Neema702 because ill tell you one thing, i may be 21, but im also a graduate from the # 1 accounting program in the country (McCombs School of Business at UT Austin), an Internal Auditor for HP and getting ready to go to a top 15 law school, so lets not throw out insults when you dont know people. those 9 out of 10 you mentioned, might actually be very highly achieved and intelligent individuals that just might not want to fight with you.

Well you "preppy" schooling makes you better equipped to rule the world.. simply by station - doesn't mean you are any more intelligent of better than the next.

You are just lucky enough to have been borne into enough status wealth and support to have access to the right path to "that station where youthink people are better".

Good luck.