Clarkson is the man!

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by racingfreak youd be hard pressed to find a better performance per dollar. Just remember one thing, the only place that the corvette is actually cheap is in the US. To import one to Europe almost doubles the cost, so then it is more in the price range of lamborghinis and ferraris, SO OK I'LL SAY THIS: If you live in the US by all means by a corvette, cause its cheap for you and keeps them from being exported to other countries...And the only reason a corvette is cheap is because it is made cheap...the quality on a corvette doesn't even compare to that of a fiat in my opinion, and a fiat is put together with nothing more that a couple of pieces of double sided tape... First.. the m3 engine is about 100 lbs heavier then that corvette 6L. Push rods are generally lighter engines then dohc engines. And the corvette engine puts out more bhp. If I cant compare a 500K car with a corvette, how can you compare a 70K corvette with a 40K M3??? Please, out of all the cars I listed you chose the saloon car to compare to your "sports" cars...

show's how much you know LOL

Year ............. 2005 ............. 2005 Make ............ BMW ............ Chevrolet Model ............ M3 ................ Corvette Trim ......... 2dr Coupe (3.2L 6cyl 6M) ........ 2dr Hatchback (6.0L 8cyl 6M) MSRP ....... $47,995................ $44,510 Base True Market Value M3 $38,710 Corvette $34,141 Mileage (City / Hwy) .... 16/23.......... 18/26 Curb Weight ................ 3415 lbs ..... 3179 lbs Power .......................... 333hp ......... 400hp

standard Vette is faster then, and cheaper then a M3 when new; The Z06 is on a whole other level of performance, on part with Ferrari beating, Porsche Turbo/ GT3 RS matching, and Lamborghini humiliating abilities. As to quality; it isn't nearly as bad as you say it is. The interior on a Enzo is utter crap... then again, its practically a stripped out racer. the 360 CS is even crapier IMO [actually, i'd prefer a more stripped out interior... ]... yet you pay even more for it. the Z is built to a price, and to a performance level... there is no escaping that, but on the track, and on the street... posing doesn't count much does it? oh, and even at 2x the price, it is still cheaper and faster then the cars I mentioned LOL.

Where's brembo

[graywolf624]

Just remember one thing, the only place that the corvette is actually cheap is in the US. To import one to Europe almost doubles the cost, so then it is more in the price range of lamborghinis and ferraris, SO OK I'LL SAY THIS: If you live in the US by all means by a corvette, cause its cheap for you and keeps them from being exported to other countries...And the only reason a corvette is cheap is because it is made cheap...the quality on a corvette doesn't even compare to that of a fiat in my opinion, and a fiat is put together with nothing more that a couple of pieces of double sided tape...

It isn't our fault your country tarrifs you to death. Here a the german cars are a little bit more expensive then there, but even thats only minor. The benefits of a more integrated free trade economy I guess.
As for the interior I get the impression you havent driven one or you are exaggerating. The corvette is certainly not the crowning achievement in interior but it is leaps and bounds above the fiat. It doesn't fall apart, it doesnt squeak, it doesnt rattle. The parts you actually touch are good quality, the seats are comfortable. The dash isn't the best material admitedly.. But one could say the same thing about recent bmws. Is it all that important that the dash is soft touch as opposed to say, driving dynamics?

If I cant compare a 500K car with a corvette, how can you compare a 70K corvette with a 40K M3??? Please, out of all the cars I listed you chose the saloon car to compare to your "sports" cars...

I wasn't refering to the 70k Corvette z06. I was refering to the 40k base Corvette which is at least 5k cheaper. Hell the engine I was refering too was also in my trans am and even there the engine is lighter and puts out more bhp in that 20k dollar car. So the point holds. BMW owners swap into their m3s engines from a 20k dollar American car.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by racingfreak All the facts you say that clarkson got wrong has to do with american cars right? Well to be honest, I couldnt care less what he says about "AMERICAN V8" cars, as they are what is wrong with cars today, they have ancient engines that weigh more than north america, their stiling is boring, the interior is worse than what you get in the 1:43 scale model of the same car, they run on leave springs and they do not posses a dictionary with the word "corner" in it! The original Ford GT40 was a piece of art, as well as beautiful to look at but since then it has only gone downhill I'm afraid. They also posses the art of getting the same power from an engine twice the size of anything from europe. I've been in an Ford GT and a saleen, I've driven a ford mustang and they dont even compare to their european counterparts that I've driven, including the enzo, f430, gallardo or even a m3 for that matter!That is why you get a place called Europe or "EUROPE LAND" as the americans like to call it, so you can buy an european car and stay the hell away from anything made in the states!

Wow ... simply wow.

So you're South African then hey?

BTW - Call bullshit on your "drivign experiences" as you seem to be highlighting the incorrect features.

From my recolleciton, the Enzo interior is actually not that much to write home about... neither is the M3.

BTW - why would you be comparing a Mustang to anything European? It's a cheap sporty car - that brings up the question, what car were you comparing it to?

And - also, what area are from in RSA? That makes a huge difference, and your background - and your wealth and station - there is no doubt certain groups within ZA have certain flawed views and these are very easy to brign out into the open.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by racingfreak Clarkson was in South Africa (dont know if any of you know the little place I call home) recently together with Richard Hammond for the MPH 2007 show where you sit in a theatre and they show you all the latest cars! He entered the arena in a gallardo spyder doing drifts and filling the entire place with smoke. He told us about his Ford GT and how he has bought and sold it 3 times and finally decided to grow up so he bought a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder (?) After the show he gave out autographs and I had the oppertunity to speak to him. What a great guy, his passion for cars once again showed when I asked him if he will miss his Ford GT, he said that in an ideal world he would drive that car until its end but just had to face reality and sell the bloody thing...so my question is simple: What do you think of Mr Clarkson?

He is a pompous entertainer that has created a niche market for himself built around verbal vombosity and acidic hyperbole.

He is very good at panderign to local animosoties to drive his mediocre humour home.

I often wonder how much of a "great guy" he really is behind the scenes, because most of the time he just comes across as a prick with a car show

[racingfreak]

Wow ... simply wow. So you're South African then hey? BTW - Call bullshit on your "drivign experiences" as you seem to be highlighting the incorrect features. From my recolleciton, the Enzo interior is actually not that much to write home about... neither is the M3. BTW - why would you be comparing a Mustang to anything European? It's a cheap sporty car - that brings up the question, what car were you comparing it to? And - also, what area are from in RSA? That makes a huge difference, and your background - and your wealth and station - there is no doubt certain groups within ZA have certain flawed views and these are very easy to brign out into the open.

I listed the enzo for performance, f430 for interior (a piece of art to my opinion) and m3 for pure fun. My location is unimportant as this will only make you prejudice forsure...

[SPEEDKILLAR]

It's all about entertainment, and yes, JC does exagerate, and most of the time he doesn't focus on the technical aspects of a car, but rather what feeling it gives you. And I quite like that.

So Jezza is the man.

[graywolf624]

I listed the enzo for performance, f430 for interior (a piece of art to my opinion) and m3 for pure fun. My location is unimportant as this will only make you prejudice forsure...

So the vette now has to compete on all things with all cars? That is a pretty weak arguement, just how are you going to get those 3 aspects in one car? Not to mention we've suddenly returned to the situation where the performance car you've chosen costs more then 2 houses plus the most expensive American car. That isn't exactly a fair fight.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by racingfreak I listed the enzo for performance, f430 for interior (a piece of art to my opinion)

The F430 is a nice interior, but nothing out rageous... and Enzo performance? Uhm - which other cars are you expecting should compete with or beat then Enzo?

An Audio of some kind?

Originally Posted by racingfreak and m3 for pure fun.

The M3 is fun, if you are into slower heavier cars, sure it can be fun.

Originally Posted by racingfreak My location is unimportant as this will only make you prejudice forsure...

You may be surprised - why would it prejudice me? Are you afraid I might think you are a wealthy spoiled white guy - or are you afraid I might think you are a "new money" spoiled black guy? Or perhpas you might be afraid I might think you are none of the above and just try debate you on the facts rather than opinion?

[racingfreak]

You may be surprised - why would it prejudice me? Are you afraid I might think you are a wealthy spoiled white guy - or are you afraid I might think you are a "new money" spoiled black guy? Or perhpas you might be afraid I might think you are none of the above and just try debate you on the facts rather than opinion?

I actually just know alot of wealthy guys with some amazing cars as well as some people in the motor industry that get me rides in some of the finest cars out there!
The best I've got in my garage is a porsche...hardly something to write home about. And consider me finished with this topic, because we all know that neither those that love american cars, nor those that love their european cars will ever change their opinion so this arguement is rather pointless...

[RC45]

Originally Posted by racingfreak You may be surprised - why would it prejudice me? Are you afraid I might think you are a wealthy spoiled white guy - or are you afraid I might think you are a "new money" spoiled black guy? Or perhpas you might be afraid I might think you are none of the above and just try debate you on the facts rather than opinion? I actually just know alot of wealthy guys with some amazing cars as well as some people in the motor industry that get me rides in some of the finest cars out there! The best I've got in my garage is a porsche...hardly something to write home about. And consider me finished with this topic, because we all know that neither those that love american cars, nor those that love their european cars will ever change their opinion so this arguement is rather pointless...

No - dont run away yet...

What Porsche do you have again?

[racingfreak]

No - dont run away yet... What Porsche do you have again?

Its a 996 Carrera 4S...but I wish it was a 993 Turbo S

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by nthfinity Where's brembo Im here dont worry honey..... The reason for my non replying was drinking on friday night and a comp crash on saturday, but up and running again thank you very much....

Fair enough

I see you have posted a now locked "cry me a river" thread to get sympathy for not everyone agreing with you...

No, I could care less for simpathy, nor people agreeing with me; but, I am just asking you bring your issues with me to me, rather then accuse me of lying w/out any evicence to back up your claim, and plenty to back up mine.

But since TT did the right thing and locked that thread I will not repsond to such, but it sure underline my question if you have lived a cusioned life, thanks for doing that btw.....

He felt it would turn into some internet fight, and it possibly would, but not by my doings. You are ethically bankrupt here, yet still avoid providing any evicence of your claim.

So to your "proofs" I have not said what you are saying are not true, but there are no way of knowing... You show us some pictures of people in the industry... Dani have posted pictures of him with most of the F1 people, shumi and so on.....does this mean he are tight with them...NO....

Does dani meet with them on a weekly basis? I don't know... but I know that I do. Ask everso if it's a possiblity. I had dinner not long ago with GM's no. 2 Designer, and a little later, had dinner with the boys at SVT and Roush.... well, a few of them anyway. I literally live in the same neighborhood as some of these people, or within a 30-40 minute drive... hence the weekends that I go out and meet with these guys (notice i'm rarely on JW during the w/e) and come back posting some interesting news... I guess I must be making this up too :roll:

By your standards, I may not have a camera, have seen a vector; let alone gone to 147 mph in one, not driven 2 ford GT's, or a Shelby GT500, or Cobra, or NSX, or STi, or etc. etc. etc. since I must get my photos and video from other people, and be a "Donnie" type character, or Krazy Hawaiian even :roll:

You show us some bussines cards hell I can show you alot of bussines cards too doesnt mean shit....

At the very least, it shows that I have met them, and have the ability to phone them up at will, does it not? [/quote]

You show us pictures of great cars in a garage, so have alot of the people on JW done it doesnt mean they are tight with them either.....

Who's taken photos of a garage with that many car's exotic's here? Is it a private garage? Is it a "museum" ? I haven't seen any member's posting a garage full of 48 cars (at that time, its now close to 70... with about 10 cars outside the state) I am "tight" with this guy, He lives only a bike ride away (of the petal persuasion)

Its not that I dont belive you nthfinity, but I dont say "ok I do not agree, but it must be true since its nthfinity who says so" everytime you post something.... Try and wrap your head around that please.....

I can understand you not having the same opinion on a subject in the same manner that both you and I can read a news paper article, and have vastly different opinions on it.

This is NOT a case of that. This is a case of you accusing me of lying, and making up the stories which I have presented here. Point me one single location where I have not brought credible information.

Keep watching, and you'll see me end up being right, just like I have been the last 3 years. I am a conduit in which this story gets told on a larger level then simply person to person.

Opinions are far different from facts, you have attempted to inject a fog into the casual reader's mind to the difference between the two. You have failed miserably at trying to discredit these posts.

On me contributing on JW......hmmm didnt know one had agree with you to be contributing, I am active on JW, I am a donating memeber and have been since the start of dontaing....

There you go again, seeing no difference between facts an opinion. It has nothing to do with agreeing with me.

Here, I'll give you an example so your seemingly puny brain can comprehend.
Opinion
Jeremy Clarkson must be an idiot.
Fact
Jeremy Clarkson unknowingly activated his credit-card sized pocket alarm system time and time again, even while driving. He then wanted a buy-back from Ford.

I just happen to not be one of your buddies.. Thats not contributing to JW in your eyes of course, but guess what I really dont care..... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Bring it to me, instead of falsely labeling me a liar without any evidence besides your own opinion.

I know it must be hard to read that for you.... on discrediting you in a way where no one would be beliving what you say, thanks for the compliment but me saamero and dani doesnt hold the powers to brainwash and implent our toughts into others head, neither have you btw.

Dani was a mistake to include in that thread.

Sameer is another story. I never said you were brainwashing me. I simply expect you to bring to the table any evidence that I was lying, or making up this story rather then simply accuse me of lying. Obviously, this is too much to ask from the likes of either of you.

I just say what I see, and that is you have gone out of your way to discredit JC after the DVD came out, I do not agree that JC are a mediocre driver with the car control he obviously have and so on....

It doesn't take a genious to see that Jeremy Clarkson is largly seen as what he is. When 40 out of 47 voters see Clarkson as something besides an auto Journalist with integrety, or the view to trust maybe it's you who has been mislead.

but by all means keep up the slander, you do it well as long as no one responds....

The libel here is against me, and I'm standing up to it, while you expect me to roll over and play dead? You've got another thing coming.

Ask everso, T-bird, graywolf, vansquish, garrets_turbo, blacktransws6, r2r... T-bird can even tell you the difference between even a year ago, and now as to how good my connections have become. Your argument failed before it started for these reasons

-You have no reasonable claim to support your assertation of your defamation of my character
- No evidence of past falsification of stories
- No character evidence
- No contradicting evidence
- You simply skip right to the name calling, and libel. An obvious sign of somebody with no argument. Even the like's of Mattk knows that.


Oh just for the record this is the internet so some things are not that easy to get across, but I have nothing personal against you....[/quote]

[RC45]

Originally Posted by racingfreak No - dont run away yet... What Porsche do you have again? Its a 996 Carrera 4S...but I wish it was a 993 Turbo S

Nice - JW is a no BullShit zone, so we back such claims up with images and proof positive

[Pokiou]

Isnt the Point of Top Gear Average guys driving super cars and writing talking about there opinions..

If clarkson is a crap driver and is able to hold a race car driver in a lambo while driving a Evo and his an average guy ... that.. to me is impressive.

His input about cars are real...

i had a 1990 180sx.. The stuff used in the car is cheap early 1990's technology it was crap.. cloth that is used to carry potato's in the back of a horse carriage. Plastic all over.. but... regardless of that.. It was a fantastic car to drive. awsome handling nice sound..

and thats what clarkson does, gives a honest average Joe's opinion. Liking it or not is upto you .. But coming on here and bitching about the guy is completly stupid and very childish.

what have we learnt:

JC is a Average Joe.
JC gives HIS own honest opinion
JC is a average driver
JC Has his tv show which non of us do.
JC doesnt care what you and me think of him.


Pok

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by brembo Hey there you came back finaly... I have said it several times it might be so that you are hanging around with these guys, but I do not agree with you on everything you say just because you have contacts with these people....

I'm not asking for agreeing as to my interpretation of the facts. You also accused me of it being possible that I don't in fact know these guys... starting to see the err of your ways?

Lets try this again
Opinion
I don't like Ice
Fact
Water freezes at 32 F/ 0 C / 273 K

I think its great that you bring info from that part of the industry you have gotten me wrong Im just saying I do not take everything you say as facts just because its coming from you as you have a biased view on cars just as you accuse me of having.....

My bias? My bias is that I enjoy performance over luxury, and fact over opinion. Like the fact that 99% of aluminum interior trim is actually plastic LOL. Opinions would go towared saying "my plastic is nicer then yours. LOL

I will still keep my right to not agree with you and not agree with what you say just because its coming from you, and all the Jezza "hating" you have come up with after the DVD makes me and others belive you try and discredit him in everyway you can so the next time he say something that you dont agree with as he doesnt love crappy interiors and so on you can say "what does Clarckson know, he cant drive and are an idiot"....

my so-called "jezza hating" started LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before the new DVD was released. LOL funny how you only associate these stories with it... considering I only started making my "in" with the ford guys in the last 6 months, its more conisidence then anything else.

Seriously tho, Is it so hard to believe that Jeremy is a pompus asshat who is extremely enjoyable to watch?

pretty much the same as you accuse me of doing to you....its a bitch aint it...

you see, I am simply using your previous posts and noting them as my evidence of my accusations. You have entirely failed at that, and also fail to see the humor of using absurdity to display the point. I suppose its a lost art?

Where did I directly accuse you of lying btw,and where did I skip to name calling.....?

Maybe I'm reaching when you say that I made the story up, and that logically equates to calling me a liar. I don't think I'm reaching.

and for the record I dont think you are anyhting even close to a "donnie" dude....but I must say I have alot of fun with you even with my puny brain.... hmm who said name calling.....I think you have called me more names in this thread than I have called you.....

I hope you see the difference between fact, and opinion. This isn't about agreeing, nor disagreeing. I don't get rolled over by some [insert name] thinking that there is no way that what I'm posting is true, fact, or otherwise. It is below the belt, ignorant, libel, unevidenciary. You can't simply accuse somebody without the reason to back your claim up.

I've backed mine up.