GT-R's ECU cracked - no more speed limiter

[79TA]

COBB Tuning won the race to be the first to remove the JDM GT-R's peskey 112 mph speed limiter.

http://blogs.cobbtuning.com/?p=242

COBB tuning hopes their experience with the JDM ECU will provide them with plenty of experience to tweak the US market versions.

[madpony]

Grats to COBB Tuning. This will generate some hype for them for sure.

[HeilSvenska]

So... I suppose this only concerns Japanese GT-R owners I guess. I wonder what Nissan will say about that. (after they've voided the warrantees, of course )

[RC45]

A simple reflash from Nissan will lock it up again

[HeilSvenska]

Originally Posted by RC45 A simple reflash from Nissan will lock it up again

Hahaha. I can so see that.

"Nissan issues mandatory recall for all 2008 Nissan GT-R. Go to your nearest Nissan GT-R authorized dealerships and fork over for the mandatory $1000 service, and get your ECU replaced with a physically impenetrable one."

[RC45]

Yeah - in new cars, you want your warranty intact for all the electronic gizmos to be replaced if something happens... you dont mind the mechanical bits being unwarranteed, because thats the risk you take modding the engine.

But with something like the GT-R that is a rolling computer lab, it would suck big time to have Nissan void the warranty because all systems are very closely coupled because you "tuned" it.

If a Chevy ABS module is $3500 I would hate to know the cost of some of the clever systems in the Nissan - quite the cost risk for "average" enthusiasts to take hehe

Let's hope Nissan don't be too hrad nosed about it all.

[04RCSTI]

I think redesigning the ECU would be entirely too expensive for Nissan. I've been using COBB tuning computers for years (AccessPort) and they are top notch for sure. I've had dinner with the owner of COBB and I'm good friends with some of the workers there, they are all nice guys that love what they do. I'm not all that surprised they cracked it so soon.

Tuning the GT-R isnt going to be as hard as everyone thinks... pretty soon its going to be boost...timing...++ I'm pretty sure the GT-R could make 550hp on a tune alone...
Bigger turbos...more fuel...some $... I wouldnt be surprised if we have 600+ stock block GT-R's flying around soon..

[RC45]

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI I think redesigning the ECU would be entirely too expensive for Nissan.

Not a redesign - reflash - back to stock

[79TA]

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI I think redesigning the ECU would be entirely too expensive for Nissan. I've been using COBB tuning computers for years (AccessPort) and they are top notch for sure. I've had dinner with the owner of COBB and I'm good friends with some of the workers there, they are all nice guys that love what they do. I'm not all that surprised they cracked it so soon. Tuning the GT-R isnt going to be as hard as everyone thinks... pretty soon its going to be boost...timing...++ I'm pretty sure the GT-R could make 550hp on a tune alone... Bigger turbos...more fuel...some $... I wouldnt be surprised if we have 600+ stock block GT-R's flying around soon..

Nissan has pushed the little 3.8 pretty far. I really doubt any big gains will be made with a tune by itself. Let's not forget that there's a slight possibility that it makes that much power already. (My guess as of now is something around 510 . . . with 15% drivetrain loss that would be about 434 to the wheels)

[04RCSTI]

Originally Posted by RC45 Not a redesign - reflash - back to stock

Well, the AP that COBB uses for tuning uses reflashes to load maps. So a reflash back to stock from the dealership would take all of 10 minutes to "fix"

Originally Posted by 79TA Nissan has pushed the little 3.8 pretty far. I really doubt any big gains will be made with a tune by itself. Let's not forget that there's a slight possibility that it makes that much power already. (My guess as of now is something around 510 . . . with 15% drivetrain loss that would be about 434 to the wheels)

Yeah, I'm just educatedly guessing. My car which is a 2.5L 4-Cyl makes 300 (230WHP) from the factory at 16 psi. I'd say thats pushing a 2.5 4banger pretty far, wouldnt you agree?
Now I'm on a very safe stage two tune with boost at 19PSI and some play in the timing and duty cycle of the boost solenoid... car is making 320WHP with an exhaust. (like 380 crank HP I'm guessing, not that it matters).

Based on those numbers, the higher displacement of the GT-R, the TT's and the extra two cylinders, I came up with the numbers I did before. Obviously because Nissan needs to make the car reliable as a street car, the engine has to be detuned a bit from what it could realistically run safely, in order to have that safety margin and pass emissions.

I betcha that right off the bat, just from boost and leaning out the tune a little bit (because its most likely on the super safe side) you could see some considerable gains. Add race gas or Methanol and push another 3-4 PSI and you will have a rocket.

You could also upgrade turbos like I said, perhaps twin Garret 30, 35 or 40R's. I think 35's would be amazing, but 30's for the response would be a good compromise.. even the 35's would spool quickly on a 3.8L V6..

I'm sure tuners are wetting their beds because they are so excited about the platform that Nissan has made for them...Dont be too surprised if you see piggyback or complete standalone ECU's within the next year...

If the car is making 500+ as it is tho, I can definitely see why you can say that Nissan has pushed a lot of power out of it.

[79TA]

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI I betcha that right off the bat, just from boost and leaning out the tune a little bit (because its most likely on the super safe side) you could see some considerable gains. Add race gas or Methanol and push another 3-4 PSI and you will have a rocket. You could also upgrade turbos like I said, perhaps twin Garret 30, 35 or 40R's. I think 35's would be amazing, but 30's for the response would be a good compromise.. even the 35's would spool quickly on a 3.8L V6..

Like I said, not much will come from a tune alone. Some sort of mod combined with a tune is a different story. If an owner wants to be a little braver with boost (or who knows what), I bet they could get much more just like you predicted.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI Well, the AP that COBB uses for tuning uses reflashes to load maps. So a reflash back to stock from the dealership would take all of 10 minutes to "fix".

I am not arguing that point - how do you think C5 and C6 Corvettes achieve their tuning reflashes? - I am simply pointing out that a new GT-R is not a "used STi" price, it is an $80,000 car - and it is not a small thing to have your warranty voided by the factory, since there will be certain electronic systems that even tuners will not be able to or willing to try fix or repair. Be it COBB or anyone else.

So such repeated "reflashing" to bypass factory resets may only be for the folks who can eat the cost of the car, not the average buyer of the GT-R - qnd not every GT-R owner i sgoing to be ungodly wealthy and be willing to lose the warranty on the car - that is all.

Nissan have already made some noise about warranty voiding service trips and the computer setup etc, so it may be quite risky to the owners pocket book to mod the new GT-R - of course the very wealthy don't care - as witnessed by the tuning shops who have bought and tuned the car already.

That is all - back to your regularly scheduled ricer-worship

[madpony]

The GTR is not a small thing in anyway. If you have 80k to buy one and then more money on top of that to try and tune/mod it then you're a) not the kind of person who has to worry about voiding the warranty or b) a complete idiot or maybe even c) both.
That having been said this isn't the kind of car most people will buy as a tuning base. The initial cost coupled with the risks and added cost of tuning/modding just to try and improve on a car that is already looking to be pretty close to it's limits will stop all but the most hardcore enthusiasts and professional tune shops. For the money spent you could definitely have a better R32 or one helluva 240.

[04RCSTI]

Notice I'm talking about tuners, not individuals. Usually Tuners are the trailblazers here because they have the funds to throw at the car. Top Secret for example has more than enough cash laying around to do what Im talking about. Repeated reflashes will not harm the car any more than the original reflash, whats the difference? Not to mention you can flash the car back to stock at any time and take it to the dealership and they would never know anything has be done to the car.

If all you do is tuning, something happens, you can reflash the car back to stock and take it to the dealer. It happens all the time... I know tons of people who go back to stock tunes when they go in for warranty service and its no problem.

Also when you do any tuning, specially on the GT-R you are accepting that the warranty is going to be voided and you are taking a serious risk.

The whole cash argument is stupid. If you are tuning an 80k car, you are accepting the dangers and you KNOW the kind of money you will have to spend on it if something goes wrong. There is NO doubt people can easily afford that, just like they tune 997 turbos and other $$ cars. They understand the risk, they have the cash, they do it anyway. Most of these people could care less about their warranty RC...

As far as power coming from just a tune... I feel like you guys are used to N/A cars like the vette. FI cars can make use of tuning a whole lot more than N/A cars. Look at the 335i right now....just a warranty-covered chip from Dinan gives the car what? like 60hp+

I just dont think Nissan would push the motor as close to the limits as you think. I think there's room to improve even without adding parts. Once you add parts, like any other car, youre in a different league.

hehe back to the rice worship, I like that one. Open your mind a little and give things a chance

[RC45]

Look - I really do know about shit - lots of shit, just like you - I hate it that you and others always assume that people who are commenting on issues, big and small have no idea whats going on in the world

That being said I think you are missing my point completely. You can do what ever the hell you want to your own car... no question, about that never was.

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI Notice I'm talking about tuners, not individuals. Usually Tuners are the trailblazers here because they have the funds to throw at the car. Top Secret for example has more than enough cash laying around to do what Im talking about.

Tuners only do this with the hope of SELLING tuning kits/parts.

Their bread and butter is not the one-off Godzillas, but rather the many many middle of the road mods and tunes they sell for profit. These are the folks who actually do care about some ind of warranty. And in the "old" days, system were less interconnected, but we ar egetting to the point where tuning you engine could void your airbag warranty because of some interdependancy in the system - or that changing taillight lamp resistance could impact the ABS/TC feedback circuit - in which case a problem if discovered could cause the warranty to be voided

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI Repeated reflashes will not harm the car any more than the original reflash, whats the difference? Not to mention you can flash the car back to stock at any time and take it to the dealership and they would never know anything has be done to the car.

No-one is debating the "harm" that can be done - and harm can be done by changing parameters out of context or range by the way, happens all the time, but we will assume the tuner doesnt do something stupid.

And while removng a speedlimit may seem harmless to you, me and the tuner, if the original programmer intended that value to be used elsewhere it couldimpact something else disastrously.

So - to be clear, unless the tuner actually has the source code, all hacks and reverse engineers are just that, hacks and reverse engineering and hoping for the best at the root level.

Trust me, us GM guys know all about that - the LSx series of engine management systems are some of the most tunable and editable and changable on the market - and even the guys who have cracked and hacked and sell the software to do so, release updates as they learn new things about the data .

Now as to whether "no-one will ever know" - WRONG - everytime you write to these eproms they store checksums and control sequences and the factory knows when things have been reflashed.

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI If all you do is tuning, something happens, you can reflash the car back to stock and take it to the dealer. It happens all the time... I know tons of people who go back to stock tunes when they go in for warranty service and its no problem.

Only because they never took it back for something RELATED to the altered software - otherwise the dealer would have to eat unauthorised repair costs And again, a simple reflash doesnt hide the fact it has been flashed.

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI Also when you do any tuning, specially on the GT-R you are accepting that the warranty is going to be voided and you are taking a serious risk.

This an absurd statement - you are incorrect if you are saying EVERY owner of a GT-R (or any other car for that matter) is going to have no cares about voiding their warranty - now the Mag-Mossy act does protect the consumer from warranty denial for unrelated issues, but even the richest person would rather not spend their own money if they can help it - hence warranties.

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI The whole cash argument is stupid. If you are tuning an 80k car, you are accepting the dangers and you KNOW the kind of money you will have to spend on it if something goes wrong. There is NO doubt people can easily afford that, just like they tune 997 turbos and other $$ cars. They understand the risk, they have the cash, they do it anyway. Most of these people could care less about their warranty RC...

Wrong again - most of them are confident in the fact that they are only voiding SOME of the warranty as they are protected by the Mag-Mossy act - but would not like to have their entire electronics system warranty voided because they decided to buy a COBB muffler and the tune that went with it.

Again, the tuning company makes their money from the mass market kits they sell, not the extreme one offs.

Not every person who mods their Vette, Viper, Porsche or GT-R is going to be a millionaire.

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI As far as power coming from just a tune... I feel like you guys are used to N/A cars like the vette. FI cars can make use of tuning a whole lot more than N/A cars. Look at the 335i right now....just a warranty-covered chip from Dinan gives the car what? like 60hp+

Again with the assumptions - for every 60hp extra 335i's there are 50 more 300hhp extra blown V8s
We know all about "tuning" for extra FI horsepower

Originally Posted by 04RCSTI I just dont think Nissan would push the motor as close to the limits as you think. I think there's room to improve even without adding parts. Once you add parts, like any other car, youre in a different league. hehe back to the rice worship, I like that one. Open your mind a little and give things a chance

Anyway, the original comment was about the speedlimit being removed, and having Nissan put it back if you went t the dealer (or they may do it remotely even )

Wouldn't it suck if you had your new parts fitted, and the car "flashed" and Nissan set it back to stock and your tuner couldn't unlock it again - because they had patched the eproms