Forza Vid 12:08

[RC45]

Originally Posted by FordGTGuy 5vz-fe like I have said those are from replay not game play. Forza doesn't arcadish that pics shows the depth and look of the background how does it look arcadey. Pics don't show physics watch the video please.

GT3 already had the same suspension physics. Nothing new..

[5vz-fe]

It's not the depth of the picture...it is the whole feel......as in those trees, and grass give it a feel that it is from a drawing if u know what I mean...but doesn't really matter, everyone are allowed to have their own opinion.

[gis]

Originally Posted by FordGTGuy ^^^omg thats so under thought the graphics of GT4 are shit compared to Forza.

you aint by any chance a sales man undercover to promote this game are you?

as u can see from the pics above,GT4 isnt shit in graphics.and when i said the graphics are better in GT4 i meant in the game not replay,i played GT4 prolouge and the graphics are awesome,very impressive,has a more realistic look than forza,not that im saying forza is shit coz it isnt

[T-Bird]

ypu can't forget the reactive spectators in GT4 that react to the cars as they pass by like the people in the road in the rally events that move back when you get near.
Forza looks like it is going to be all race tracks GT4 has some street races aswell with very in depth detail especially the New York scenes.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by T-Bird ypu can't forget the reactive spectators in GT4 that react to the cars as they pass by like the people in the road in the rally events that move back when you get near. Forza looks like it is going to be all race tracks GT4 has some street races aswell with very in depth detail especially the New York scenes.

Hope they have a yellow cab for using in NY...

[666fast]

Originally Posted by T-Bird ypu can't forget the reactive spectators in GT4 that react to the cars as they pass by like the people in the road in the rally events that move back when you get near. Forza looks like it is going to be all race tracks GT4 has some street races aswell with very in depth detail especially the New York scenes.

If the spectators end up anything like they were in the Toyota Demo, they really aren't worth mentioning. LOL

All i know, is that I don't have to choose which game is better and which one to buy. I'll get both.

Pics are pics, none of that really matters. Screencaps can be spruced up before being released. Comment on the graphics when you have
played both games.

I don't care what game has better graphics, as long as it's a good game, it won't matter. If it's shit, awesome graphics won't save it.

[FordGTGuy]

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/548/548311p1.html

american muscles and classics announced :shock:

lemme connect all the car lists in article right here go to article for pics.

Classic Muscle Car Roster

1970 Dodge Challenger R/T Hemi

1968 Shelby Shelby GT500KR

1970 Ford Mustang Boss 429

1970 Chevrolet Camaro Z28

1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS Coupe

1968 Pontiac GTO Hardtop Coupe

Classic Sports Car Roster

1966 Ford GT40 MK II

1967 Ferrari 330 P4

1967 AC 427 MKIII

1964 Ferrari 250 GTO

1969 Ferrari 246 Dino GT

1974 Lancia Stratos HF Stradale

1961 Jaguar S1 E-type 3.8

1967 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 427 L-88

1972 Lotus Elan Sprint

1954 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing Coupe

1972 Datsun 240ZX

1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS

1955 Porsche 550 Spyder (James Dean Edition)

1969 Toyota 2000gt

Aftermarket Tuner Roster

1995 Tom's Tom's T020 (MR2)

1995 VIS Racing MR2 Turbo T-bar (Widebody)

1995 Border MR2 Turbo T-bar (Widebody)

2002 Tom's Tom's W123 (Toyota MR-S)

2000 Aerogear Integra R (Widebody)

2000 VIS Racing Integra R (Widebody)

2004 Wings West Civic R J Spec (Widebody)

2002 Mugen Mugen Integra Type R (Japan)

2003 APR Performance Celica GTS (Widebody)

2004 Mugen Mugen Civic Type R Hatch

2002 Guldstrand Corvette Guldstrand Edition

2000 Saleen Saleen S281 (Based on the Mustang)

2003 Mugen Mugen NSX

2003 Mugen Mugen S2000 (Hardtop)

1995 INGS RX-7 (Widebody)

1995 AB Flug RX-7 (Widebody)

2002 Tommy Kaira Tommy Kaira 2002 R34

2002 Mine's Mine's GT-R (R34)

1995 Mine's Mine's Skyline R32 GT-R

1998 Tommy Kaira Tommy Kaira Impreza M20b 2002

1995 Mine's Mine's CP9A Lancer Evolution VI RS

2004 Sparco Sparco Lancer Evo

2002 Tom's Z382 (SC430)

2000 Hennessey Hennessey Viper 800TT

2002 Lingenfelter Lingenfelter 427 CID Twin Turbo Corvette

1998 AB Flug Supra Turbo S900 (Widebody)

1998 VeilSide Supra Turbo 99 (Widebody)

1998 VeilSide Supra Turbo 03 (Widebody)

check out this vette going to go get them posted in a sec.

[FordGTGuy]

compare this rx-8 with the GT4 one and this one looks better even against the image polished gt4 one.

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by FordGTGuy ^^^ have you even checked out the screen shots for Forza it makes GT4 look like PS1??? I don't see the arcadey look either? when you watch this vid of Forza they even show you the suspension and the tires working on bumps and turns. People who buy Forza do it for realistic everything from looks to mods to physics to gameplay to AI. And Forza won't need to use all of X-box. Having power is not the same as using power I don't think there has been a game to use the whole power of a console ever. BTW the GT4 pics that look great are in replay which is buffed to look better. Plus Forza doesn't need to compete with GT they're on two different consoles and SRS and Juiced suck compare to Forza hands down. Being on a different console gives the game a whole different community to sell to and only 20-30% of that community has xbox and Ps2 and 50-60% of the are getting both, 8-5% of them are getting Forza alone, 10-15% aren't getting racing games, 17% are getting GT4 alone.

I categorically disagree with you...the fact is that while it does look better than PGR2 and certainly better than GT1,2, and 3, (higher polygon count and higher resolution), the graphics still look fake...contrived to be eye candy as some of the other guys have already said. GT4 appeals to the people who are serious about racing and driving in and of itself. The physics of the GT series are unparalleled, I've played just about every game on the market that purports to be their equal and most can't even match up to GT1 even though it had bouncy corners. The cars "feel" like cars...you can sense minute attitude changes while driving. This is the bread and butter of the GT series...physics realism, not graphical perfection (a test at which I'm sorry to say Forza falls short as well) are the intent and the most important part of the game. I haven't found a game with decent AI either...none, the GT series can't do it very well, the NFS series are terrible, as is PGR2....nothing reacts like a real driver would. So don't pull some BS out about how it's wonderful in Forza, I'll believe it when I see it. As for the suspension and tires...have you looked at GT1 lately...yes, even GT1 had working suspension that was visible in replays and on the racetrack. As for permanent skid marks, those have been around forever...I can recall them as far back as 1991 in a DOS-based F1 game I had...not impressed.

As for the "arcadey" look...just look at where the tires meet the road, the way the shadows fall, the fact that the cars look placed on the road as if they're part of some Java applet. Even if the poly-count on GT4 is lower than that of Forza, think about these two things....1) in Forza, the cars look separate from the road surface and surroundings, whereas in GT4 (yes, even the race-footage) they look at one with their surroundings, and 2) The Xbox is a much more powerful system, so the fact that we're even deigning to compare the two says something about the realism that GT4 offers...the people behind Forza and PGR2 need to learn something from the Polyphony camp about realism, then they'll have a killer game and I'll need to buy an Xbox. Until that day...it's GT4 all the way.

[5vz-fe]

Originally Posted by Vansquish As for the "arcadey" look...just look at where the tires meet the road, the way the shadows fall, the fact that the cars look placed on the road as if they're part of some Java applet. Even if the poly-count on GT4 is lower than that of Forza, think about these two things....1) in Forza, the cars look separate from the road surface and surroundings, whereas in GT4 (yes, even the race-footage) they look at one with their surroundings, and 2) The Xbox is a much more powerful system, so the fact that we're even deigning to compare the two says something about the realism that GT4 offers...the people behind Forza and PGR2 need to learn something from the Polyphony camp about realism, then they'll have a killer game and I'll need to buy an Xbox. Until that day...it's GT4 all the way.

Well said Vansquish....u took the words out of my mouth, especially with the new pics that FordGTGuy posted...the corvette looks seperated from the track.

[Vansquish]

more like off of your keyboard I imagine hehe

[FordGTGuy]

GT4 looks like the same thing and worst the shadows on all the cars is just a box of black under the car and a lighter shadow next to it. Plus it does look like the cars are not connected to the ground in GT4 to but Forzas graphics are still being polished unlike GT4s.

As for the "arcadey" look...just look at where the tires meet the road, the way the shadows fall, the fact that the cars look placed on the road as if they're part of some Java applet. Even if the poly-count on GT4 is lower than that of Forza, think about these two things....1) in Forza, the cars look separate from the road surface and surroundings, whereas in GT4 (yes, even the race-footage) they look at one with their surroundings, and 2) The Xbox is a much more powerful system, so the fact that we're even deigning to compare the two says something about the realism that GT4 offers...the people behind Forza and PGR2 need to learn something from the Polyphony camp about realism, then they'll have a killer game and I'll need to buy an Xbox. Until that day...it's GT4 all the way.

If you wanna talk about an arcadey look look at GT4. Anyway their is no such thing as an arcadey look so what does a sim look like??? The people PGR2 were making a arcade the people behind Forza are making a sim two different things and two different companies. They don't have to learn about Polyphony's realism since the Physics are very good in the game. GT4s physics will not compare. GT4 vs Forzas AI is just stupid Forza brought in a Robot AI maker and made an AI called Drivatater the most advance AI ever put on a console game. GT4s AI follows lines set by programmers and pose no difficulty. You know nothing about how people take these pictures and enhance them 100xs to make them look better. You wanna show me in game you have to show me a non-enhanced shot of the back of the car which is the only way to view the car in game.

you should read arguments about this before you go out saying anything.

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthr...id=4914&page=8


http://boards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=7806

[Vansquish]

OK...since you obviously didn't read what I wrote, I'm going to requote myself so that you can attempt to read it again...

the fact is that while it does look better than PGR2 and certainly better than GT1,2, and 3, (higher polygon count and higher resolution), the graphics still look fake...contrived to be eye candy as some of the other guys have already said. GT4 appeals to the people who are serious about racing and driving in and of itself. The physics of the GT series are unparalleled, I've played just about every game on the market that purports to be their equal and most can't even match up to GT1 even though it had bouncy corners. The cars "feel" like cars...you can sense minute attitude changes while driving. This is the bread and butter of the GT series...physics realism, not graphical perfection (a test at which I'm sorry to say Forza falls short as well) are the intent and the most important part of the game. I haven't found a game with decent AI either...none, the GT series can't do it very well, the NFS series are terrible, as is PGR2....nothing reacts like a real driver would. So don't pull some BS out about how it's wonderful in Forza, I'll believe it when I see it.

Now that you've had a chance to read again, did you see anywhere in that where I said that GT4 had great AI? Did I attempt to argue that GT4's graphics were better/cleaner than those in Forza? If you read it this time, I think you'll find that in fact I didn't.

The people PGR2 were making a arcade the people behind Forza are making a sim two different things and two different companies

Perhaps after you learn to formulate a sentence that is grammatically correct you'll also discover that if you talk to someone who worked on PGR2, they'll be extremely offended if you refer to the game as an "arcade"-style game. PGR2 was intended to be a Sim of the highest qualifications, as is Forza. I'm not going to argue with you over the technicalities of whether Forza is a decent game, it's just not realistic enough for my tastes. I'm sure it's just fine.

GT4s physics will not compare

You're right, GT4's physics engine is, and will always be a better use of the platform and a more successful attempt at realism than Forza's. As for where things go from here, I imagine that the PS3 will rectify any complaints you might have over graphical realism and poly-count.

You know nothing about how people take these pictures and enhance them 100xs to make them look better. You wanna show me in game you have to show me a non-enhanced shot of the back of the car which is the only way to view the car in game.

I beg to differ. Your argument has not one, but two fallacies within it. The first is that you have proven nothing to the effect that the "screens" from Forza are in fact un-enhanced. The second problem lies with the fact that you have made the assumption that I don't know anything about photo/screen-enhancing equipment and programs. In fact I do...I have minimal experience with them myself, but I am well aware of their capabilities as one of my roommates is a graphical artist as are several of my very close friends.

you should read arguments about this before you go out saying anything. http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthr...id=4914&page=8 http://boards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=7806

As for sending me to look at pages of arguments between a bunch of rabid PS2 and Xbox fans, I can't say they do much to enhance my image of you, nor of your sensibilities. These are simply pages of opinionated banter with no substance behind them. I have no respect for that. Hard proof is the only way to go if you want to argue something. Solid physical data is the absolute by which things must be measured, I'm a physicist, remember...I think things through before getting into arguments with the likes of you.

[FordGTGuy]

if you are telling me the truth why are you saying that GT4 is going to be a better sim than Forza without cold hard facts??

Plus PGR2 was made as an arcade game but yes it does share some sim qualities.

[5vz-fe]

As a hardcore car fans myself, I am actually surprise how little I care about the AI in a racing game (maybe if I were a street racer that might be a different situation). The last thing I want is at the last lap a smartass AI knock you into a spin and you lost the race. I know I do that sometimes to the AI, but, hey, I pay for the game, of course I deserve to have some edge lol. So, there is totally nothing wrong with the AI in GT4 trying to go on the ultimate racing line.

I don't know if you notice, but individual object's quality of Forza is better than GT4, yet when they are put together, u feel something is not right. Don't u ever wonder why the clarity of far objects and close objects are the similar in Forza? U sure u feel the 2nd and 3rd pic of the corvette u posted are connected to the tract? I never doubt the graphics of Forza, but one gotta take into account of these little things before saying that it has better graphics in every area over GT4.

In a racing game, it is the physics engine (handling of different cars, how they react with different modifications) that weights the most. This is like few years back when ppl start playing Counter-Strike with a Geforce 2 or worse, they still get addicted to it. This is not because of graphics, it is because of game play. Forza definitely won't be able to beat the 500+ cars and many many different tracks. I am also not a big fan of the fact that you need to trade over internet to get the car you want.