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Old 07-27-2005, 03:11 PM   #31
pharzo
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Originally Posted by Toronto
your right @ the time Wright and Warhol were not hip or trendy
Because people like that don't care about being labelled with that crock...they do what they like, and then a bunch of followers get on board...then the labels such as "cool" and "hip" come along

If you subscribe to that you're not being bold or innovative, you're just hopelessly dating yourself.
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:11 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by RC45
There are more iPod users and Mac owners who "just had to have it - it looks cool" than actual users who need/want the functionality
this could be said about most things for sale with good looks , ferrari?

the fact is that graphic design houses, advertising, music and movies still use the apple as the weapon of choice, just like race car drivers use a ferrari
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:28 PM   #33
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the fact is that graphic design houses, advertising, music and movies still use the apple as the weapon of choice
Well not all of them...for example ILM doesn't

But sure, a lot do. But these people are designers...aesthetics are important to them. There's nothing they do on a mac that couldn't be done cheaper on a PC. But once again...it looks prettier...and for some people is easier to use.

Most graphic design places i know have macs...but purely because of the style thing. They have those weird sparse offices with strange decor...and macs fit right in. Remember these people are designers...not IT professionals

just like race car drivers use a ferrari
You never know when you might stumble upon one that has an A2 and puttles around
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by pharzo
the fact is that graphic design houses, advertising, music and movies still use the apple as the weapon of choice
Well not all of them...for example ILM doesn't

But sure, a lot do. But these people are designers...aesthetics are important to them. There's nothing they do on a mac that couldn't be done cheaper on a PC. But once again...it looks prettier...and for some people is easier to use.

Most graphic design places i know have macs...but purely because of the style thing. They have those weird sparse offices with strange decor...and macs fit right in. Remember these people are designers...not IT professionals
WOW you picked one... out of 1,000's.

and the graphic design "places" that are in it just for style, well I guess they don't work in the big time, I have been to many a design houses (it is in my line of work), most of them look like a normal offices. and the macs are hidden away under the desk
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:59 PM   #35
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Well i just picked that one because its the most famous and considered by many to be the most skilled. I think they have something like 20 oscars, and they are industry leading with regard to skill and innovation. If it's good enough for them...


And you can't really "hide a mac away under a desk" because everything about the bloody thing screams "mac!!!"...the keyboard, mouse, monitor....
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Old 07-27-2005, 04:27 PM   #36
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It is still considered correct but if you find it too hypercorrect then we will all use viruses.

The forms viri and virii are also used as a plural, although less frequently. There is disagreement among users of the Internet over whether these forms should be considered correct. No major printed dictionary includes them as correct forms.

The plural virii is frequently perceived to be a hypercorrection formed on analogy with Latin plurals such as radii.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virii#U...the_virii_form
He responded to your long post before i read it, so i didn't want to just re-iterate his points and respond again
OK if you say so.

and i explained to you why they did. What microsoft does has no bearing on the matter...personally i don't mind that gaming consoles have a once over by some designer, as they need to fit into a living room...computers don't
And MS is not "insisting" anyone call it blogcasting except for their own employees. And they're not trying to make money off of it either.[/quote]
Your explanation makes no sense at all. MS' anti-Apple antics is even more amusing than Apple's anti-MS antics. By the very fact they insist it be called blogcasting is paranoid. To tell you honestly the 360 is almost as huge as an ATX case and almost as unpretty as compared to the Revolution or the PS3. Personal Computers sales growth has mainly been attributed to the household. In fact it was Bill Gate's desire that there would be a PC in every household. Aesthetics does matter (Intel did commission a Mac Mini clone a few weeks back for example) when everything is almost the same. What differentiates one white box from the other at first glance? One looks like the face of Voltron and the other 1 looks like a Bangled case. You may not find it of any importance but a lot of other ppl do. Heck SFF barebones are a big thing these days. They're not standard and largely proprietary but people buy em because they're not your huge overpowering ATX case. Mind you the rise of the SFF is largely thanks to PowerMac G4 Cube. Yes, it was a commercial dud. Yes, it was killed off but the world is a better place for it coming out.

Yeah ipods have become fashion accessories...which is why so many people fail to switch earphones to superior ones and wear the white ones...because its a fashion thing

So has all the other stuff you mentioned...people don't buy it to carry it around, but they it so it fits in with their other "hip, cool, and trendy" furniture and sparcely furnished studio apartment.
A lot of people do find it expensive so dont bother with switching earphones. Though as stock earphones go they arent that bad. A certain audiophile mag rated it highly. Then again people could say they've been paid by Apple to say nice things. I bet this was the very same arguement among the non-stylish in regards to Sony's Walkman in the 80s. But no matter how many people detracted Sony their Walkman created a revolution. Same credit goes to Apple which popularized (didn't claim to invent anything) Personal Computers (in the purest sense of the world) and MP3 players to the non-geeks.

Good design doesnt mean it is fashionable. Good design simply means it is easy to use or automatically makes sense. Like early Compaq Presario cases. Before anyone thought of thumb screws they were using em on their mid-90s model. Honestly though who would want to buy a product being marketed as being used by senior citizens living in a old people's home? Or some fat balding slob in living in his mom's basement?

Eh???
Just making a point that performance isnt everything. Aesthetics & good design matter. It has come to the point that being the fastest doesnt matter anymore. Do you really need 4GHz to write a document? Only people pushing the performance envelop are early adaptors, gamers and those who create processor-intesive content. Corvettes look good because few would buy a white box with a powerful engine.

Yes but mac was always a clone of something. Xerox park was the group that invented the gui interface, mouse, ect..
Which they were legally allowed to do. Xerox at a time owned Apple stocks and made a profit doing so. Microsoft did this also as part of their legal settlement.

That is about the dumbest piece of trash an anti-microsoft periodical ever published.
I doubt MS has the same perception as they do have banner ads on that site.

They are so far in a distant 2nd to PC's it is a joke.
They're making money and that's no joke. They're making a healthy profit and that's insanely great.

Now they claim people are buying Macs just because they own iPods? Rolling Eyes
To be honest I wouldnt expect you to understand it seeming you've never bothered getting one. Too trendy and too overly priced. Do you by chance own a MP3 player or are all your stuff analogue and CDs are a grudging compromise between quality and portability?

What a load of crap. The Mac is an expensive novelty at best. Offers no redeemable commercial value at the work place and even less in the home.
If that's the case then why is Apple the only other personal computer company other than Dell that made a substantial profit in the industry? IBM had to sell their PC hardware division because it became unprofitable for them. HP had to buy Compaq because it was also unprofitable for them.

But - I am sure it looks good to the dumbed down AOL crowd.
Most of the AOL crowd dont use Macs. Too expensive they say.

Not really...those products don't market themselves as things that "look good"

I have a Vaio, because it has the best screen i've ever seen on a lapton (X-black LCD) and because it's an awesome performer. Mac commercials however...always some trendy chick dancing with her ipod, or a hip designer with his iBook that fits in nicely with his iLife in his iApartment
Lookie here it appears that Sony also appeals to the good looking and hip crowd.

http://products.sel.sony.com/Enterta...ock/main07.jpg

Having the "best screen" isnt always good. You see Macs has always been the platform for choice for those into media and one thing they liked about Macs is the consistency of colors from one Mac to another. Sony has the flexibility of offering "better screens" because color consistency appears not to be a solution. That's why Mac screens are 96 dpi instead of 72dpi.

Lookie here also as this fashionably metrosexual looking bloke in his sparsley furnished Sony Flat is checking out his VAIO

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../tvpc_main.jpg

Wow this VAIO looks like an iBook knock off. Those two young people drinking their fashionable coffee from a Starbucks-like coffee place look so trendy.
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro..._companion.jpg

Sorry, saying wrong doesn't make it so. The article says apple is in 4th PLACE. 4th...and only because IBM sold off its' personaly computer line. Sales went up...ok sure, that doesn't mean they're high. Just higher
It's wrong because RC45 says I'm wrong. Anti-Microsoft rhetoric. Apple made not a dime out of selling Macs. Apple is surviving via pure will power & sterling engine. Anyway for a company that has been said to be on the way out it is impressive. For a company that doesnt sell Windows it is impressive. For a company that is selling overly expensive fashion accessories 4th place is impressive. IBM getting out has no baring seeming it isnt a sudden cut in IBM/Lenovo computers. The tranision from IBM to Lenovo will take about half a decade if memory serves.


Well microsoft is doing that...but they already have a functioning kernel in place...no need to take someone elses
Vista nor XP were writtten from scratch. It has continually gone more bloated after each revision. Unlike OS X which scuttled ancient code that would never be needed like support for 5.25" floppies or those metal tape drives. That's one reason why Windows XP was able to install on the PowerMacs w/ Intel chips for development use. All the ancient code contributes to Windows being unstable & a security hazzard.It is also one reason why a lot of people have jobs and are able to make a buck off the misery of others.

The cheapest apple notebook is $1000 (considerably more everywhere in europe except the UK), and thats an entry level iBook with a 12" screen. It's a 1.3ghz with a 40 gb drive. For that price you can get a pc notebook that is a 64 bit 1.6ghz, with an 80gb drive and a 14" screen.
Kindly compare the same specs. What I see is bigger/heavier laptop with more grunt and an OS that cant take advantage of a 64 bit chip.
Why make them if people don't want them?
You're missing the point. Microsoft follows where success is to be had. I have yet to hear of an initiative in their part that was profitable w/o someone first inventing the market for them. They're like sharks that sensed blood in the water. They only become interested if it is a proven field.

I'd like to choose what apps i can and can't have, not have Apple choose for me. You can spout "Quality over Quantity" all you want, but the fact is that developers make stuff for PC's because that's how they feed their kids. There are more programs available for PC, hence a wider selection, hence more competition in the market place, hence better prices
The scarcity of apps on the Mac is grossly exagerated. Yes it is far fewer but it doesnt mean only a handful. And I care about their kids because...? Buying a personal computer isnt a charity. If a company cant deliver a quality product then I aint buying. A lot of people are realising this and have opted to throw their $400 Windows PC and buying another $400 Winwodws PC because they dont know any better and whose idea about Macs are a decade's obsolete.

While no figures are available on the ranks of those jettisoning their PC's, the scourge of unwanted software is widely felt. This month the Pew group published a study in which 43 percent of the 2,001 adult Internet users polled said they had been confronted with spyware or adware, collectively known as malware. Forty-eight percent said they had stopped visiting Web sites that might deposit unwanted programs on their PC's.

Moreover, 68 percent said they had had computer trouble in the last year consistent with the problems caused by spyware or adware, though 60 percent of those were unsure of the problems' origins. Twenty percent of those who tried to fix the problem said it had not been solved; among those who spent money seeking a remedy, the average outlay was $129.

By comparison, it is possible to buy a new computer, including a monitor, for less than $500, though more powerful systems can cost considerably more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/te...rtner=homepage
Call them stupid if you want but a lot of people neither have the time nor the patience to plug every possible hole Windows offers as a built-in feature.

OSX also invariably has weaknesses, but it is not popular enough for attention seekers to exploit them.
Such as? The popularity excuse is so overused it is laughable. Mac users are stereotyped to be the most arrogant, hip, stylist, elitist computer users around. And yet these juicy targets of hackdom havent experienced a single virus, a single malware or hack attack.

Again if you insist "it is because it isnt popular" then might I point out (again) that Linux/BSD/Apache/Squid have suffered from as numerous or as fatal attacks as that found in every Windows machine since Windows 95. A decade's worth of bugs, holes and whatnot.

Why pay that premium when you can spend it on making your PC even better?
Do you mean more stable and secure? I just did! You only need to buy better hardware as your Windows install becomes more bloated over time. A few days ago I was amazed that Windows XP "protected" a virus by putting it into the "hidden" read-only rollback folder. I had the darnest time figuring why Avast/Norton/AVG/Trend Micro couldnt squash that virus. Never in my wildest dreams would I thought that Windows would put it there.

Whats all this talk about security? I have three firewalls running and I never get any issues, only reinstall because of good all wear of constant driver updates and program installs.
That's the point. I do not need to have a bother putting up any firewall because I dont have too. You do. I also do not need to go constant driver hunting because the drivers are often found on OS X.

If you want security go PC and Linux.
Desktop's immature and it is only truly free and better if you value your time as zero.

All audio editing software is now availible for PC. I have Cakewalk installed right now.
Yes, a lot of respected pros use it.

Mac doesnt have 1/4 of the software that is availible for PC.
You may be right but the best apps are already there. Why do you need more choices if they're all stinkers? Also if you mean by malware and Windows viruses (you can't call it computer viruses cause almost every virus is made for Windows) then that's cool.

If your a PC enthusiast Mac is that last thing on your my mind.
True, a lot of people would rather get out into the world instead of fiddling with Windows all day.

Can you do this with a mac?
You could... but why bother. The case looks good already and the vents & HSF are sufficient.

BTW Mac prices will never be as low as PCs.
True because Apple puts a substanial amount of money into R&D. I think it was 30% to Dell's 5-10%. Then again Dell has to compete on price because no matter how pretty a PC is it is still Windows.

Some Asrock all onboard mobo: 65$
Celeron Celeron 2.4 : 77$
80gb HDD : 55$
512 PC3200 : 48$
Case w/PSU : 45$
Total :287$
No Optical Drive, No Graphics card, No Video Card, No Sound Card, No FireWire Ports, No Modem, No Ethernet port, Huge arsed ATX case. Yes, The Mac Mini cant compete. I also noticed no OS or iLife-equivalent creative suite.

to go with his iQ? NOT!!! Wink
There was an old controversial study that said those who bought Macs were better educated. Guess that's why they can afford it. They can do their finances better.

Nothing - if you are a poser more into form than function - if you are more flash than photo - and of course my personal favourite:

"There is nothing wrong with a poofta designer handbag - if you are a bent hairdresser"
Now stability and security isnt functional. Well if you're talking about Windows then yes it isnt functional. It is downright frivolous.

I know about design Wink


There are more iPod users and Mac owners who "just had to have it - it looks cool" than actual users who need/want the functionality
You are very right though. A lot of the late adaptors are the fashionistas. First time nerdom made the fashion makers go gaga.

Form following function is a Windows/Intel thing... something rthat hippie Jobs wouldn't know if it came crashing through his garage door in the form of permission to print money (as was the case when Apple was founded)
Again Windows copied MacOS and kinda admitted it by way of settling and licensing Apple-created technology,


Funny that you brought up Intel as Intel's CEO recommends people use Macs to avoid security issues.

Pressed about security by (a reporter), Mr Otellini had a startling confession: He spends an hour a weekend removing spyware from his daughter's computer. And when further pressed about whether a mainstream computer user in search of immediate safety from security woes ought to buy Apple Computer Inc.'s Macintosh instead of a Wintel PC, he said, "If you want to fix it tomorrow, maybe you should buy something else."
Andy Grove (Intel's CEO in the late 90s) loves his iMac as far back as 1998 and expected it to be what PCs would be in the future. Today is the "future" and he was right.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...4868%2C00.html

Because people like that don't care about being labelled with that crock...they do what they like,
You pretty much summed up what Mac users are all about. Where can you find a CEO of a big tech company going up stage wearing a black turtle neck, tattered jeans and new balance sneakers for the past few years. He doesnt even shave before major keynotes. He did the Standford grad speech wearing sandals.

the fact is that graphic design houses, advertising, music and movies still use the apple as the weapon of choice, just like race car drivers use a ferrari Very Happy
Then again most people cant afford a Ferrari so they settle with something that is "value for money" like a riced out Civic or a very affordable alternative to a Porsche.

BTW if anyone didnt notice Bush loves his iPod. He uses iTunes Music Store to buy legal songs. He doesnt pirate!
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Old 07-27-2005, 04:42 PM   #37
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Well not all of them...for example ILM doesn't
A company ILM hired used Macs to clean Star Wars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ne/3945149.stm

They dont use Windows either
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6011

My mistake they do use Macs for the art dept and they like it because of it's UNIX roots. (Windows is only there for business stuff)
http://www.linuxjournal.com/xstatic/...11/6011s1.html

But sure, a lot do. But these people are designers...aesthetics are important to them. There's nothing they do on a mac that couldn't be done cheaper on a PC. But once again...it looks prettier...and for some people is easier to use.

Most graphic design places i know have macs...but purely because of the style thing. They have those weird sparse offices with strange decor...and macs fit right in. Remember these people are designers...not IT professionals
Yes Windows can crash and get infect far cheaper than OS X can. It doesnt take a genius to figure out a Mac.

A lot of scientists like using Macs. If by IT professionals you mean MSCE then you are indeed correct. Then again IT professionals doesnt equate to MSCE.
http://www.apple.com/science/

Pixar who also won a lot of Oscars use Macs. Pixar used to be part of ILM.

And you can't really "hide a mac away under a desk" because everything about the bloody thing screams "mac!!!"...the keyboard, mouse, monitor....
If you mean it is aesthetically pleasing then yes it does scream it loud and clear.

To every Apple basher: Ever used OS X or iPods for extensive periods of time? Most of the things said are FUD or from people who make their bread and butter maintaining Windows.

Oh yeah here's another Sony VAIO in different colours. Very iMac G3 & iPod Mini-ish.
http://www.live.sony.webcollage.net/...smb%5B1%5D.jpg
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Old 07-27-2005, 05:23 PM   #38
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Just so you know, hypercorrection is
A construction or pronunciation produced by mistaken analogy with standard usage out of a desire to be correct
It is still considered correct but if you find it too hypercorrect then we will all use viruses.
No, it's NOT considered CORRECT

then we will all use viruses.
you can use whatever you like, but don't keep insisting that virii is correct. You can write viriises for all i care, just know it's incorrect :roll:

They dont use Windows either
never said they did

By the very fact they insist it be called blogcasting is paranoid.
Once again, they are only insisting their employees call it that, no one else. Also, please know that podcasting has nothing at all to do with ipods...

Kindly compare the same specs
no thanks, i think i'll compare the same PRICE as that was the point of the argument

Aesthetics does matter (Intel did commission a Mac Mini clone a few weeks back for example) when everything is almost the same. What differentiates one white box from the other at first glance? One looks like the face of Voltron and the other 1 looks like a Bangled case. You may not find it of any importance but a lot of other ppl do. Heck SFF barebones are a big thing these days. They're not standard and largely proprietary but people buy em because they're not your huge overpowering ATX case. Mind you the rise of the SFF is largely thanks to PowerMac G4 Cube. Yes, it was a commercial dud. Yes, it was killed off but the world is a better place for it coming out.
Yes, as i said before, aesthetics do matter...in the living room. Not in the office...

The only real reason for a mac mini is a living room entertainment unit...i don't see any reason for a small form factor case in the office...unless you're out to impress someone with the way your office looks

It has come to the point that being the fastest doesnt matter anymore
haha, ok i guess intel and amd are just in it for the giggles

Having the "best screen" isnt always good. You see Macs has always been the platform for choice for those into media and one thing they liked about Macs is the consistency of colors from one Mac to another. Sony has the flexibility of offering "better screens" because color consistency appears not to be a solution. That's why Mac screens are 96 dpi instead of 72dpi.
*sigh*....here, go educate yourself

And I care about their kids because...?
You obviously misread my post...i said developers make more stuff for windows becaues that's how they feed their kids. A common english expression meaning that's where the money is

Microsoft follows where success is to be had
Yeah, as in, they make what people want.

And yet these juicy targets of hackdom havent experienced a single virus, a single malware or hack attack.
Once again, i draw your attention to the fact that less than 5% of all computers ANYWHERE are macs...so people who write viruses simply can't be bothered...

you know why they write viruses? either to get attention, or to get a job in the industry...neither can be done while attacking an unpopular platform

I do not need to have a bother putting up any firewall because I dont have too
Ok, wise one...then why does OS X come with a built in firewall????

And regardless of what you "think", every computer that is online needs a firewall...no matter how pretty it is

viruses (you can't call it computer viruses cause almost every virus is made for Windows
Hey, you learned the correct plural

A few days ago I was amazed that Windows XP "protected" a virus by putting it into the "hidden" read-only rollback folder.
this is an extremely well known issue...quite old too. It was fixed some years ago

No Graphics card, No Video Card, No Sound Card, No FireWire Ports, No Modem, No Ethernet port, Huge arsed ATX case
Some Asrock all onboard mobo: 65$
Celeron Celeron 2.4 : 77$
80gb HDD : 55$
512 PC3200 : 48$
Case w/PSU : 45$
Total :287$
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It is also a cheaply made, fast to depreciate, badly service hunk of GM crap.
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:24 PM   #39
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^^^ what podcasting has nothing to do with iPods?
I have used iPodder for what seems to be a year to me, and it is built to go with iTunes?

holy holy jee-wilikers RC, you have a blind Robin!
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:33 PM   #40
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Podcasting is a method of publishing via the Internet, allowing users to subscribe to a feed of new files (usually MP3s). It became popular in late 2004, largely to automate downloading of audio onto portable players or personal computers.
it was just named podcasting because thats "cool, hip, and trendy"

holy holy jee-wilikers RC, you have a blind Robin!
that's just cruel
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:42 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by evoWALO
Mac doesnt have 1/4 of the software that is availible for PC.
You may be right but the best apps are already there. Why do you need more choices if they're all stinkers? Also if you mean by malware and Windows viruses (you can't call it computer viruses cause almost every virus is made for Windows) then that's cool.
Oh yeah? Ever heard of Orcad? Pcad? And a bunch of other engineering software along with a whole bunch pf other small utilitties that are used for many electronics related things?

What is it with you and viruses. I have a PC, I dont have viruses.

True, a lot of people would rather get out into the world instead of fiddling with Windows all day.
What is it with you and windows? Fuck windows ok? I dont use windows...wtf is it with you mac boys and windows, 80% of PC users admit that windows is shit, not as shitty as mac os though

You could... but why bother. The case looks good already and the vents & HSF are sufficient.
Enthusiast! Ever heard of that? If I follow what your saying then we are all well of driving stock miatas.

BTW Mac prices will never be as low as PCs.
True because Apple puts a substanial amount of money into R&D. I think it was 30% to Dell's 5-10%. Then again Dell has to compete on price because no matter how pretty a PC is it is windows[/quote]
Can you stop brining your damn windows up? Whats your point? How is windows bad for a typical user?

Some Asrock all onboard mobo: 65$
Celeron Celeron 2.4 : 77$
80gb HDD : 55$
512 PC3200 : 48$
Case w/PSU : 45$
Total :287$
No Optical Drive, No Graphics card, No Video Card, No Sound Card, No FireWire Ports, No Modem, No Ethernet port, Huge arsed ATX case. Yes, The Mac Mini cant compete. I also noticed no OS or iLife-equivalent creative suite.
Ahh your blind or dum? Fine? You want an optical drive? Throw in a burner, you can find one for 13$ if you look hard enough, actually my friend got one for 5$ after a rebate.
No os? Sure there is os. The private shop will put on XP Corp. on there for you free of charge,(the beauty of PC ownership Or just get Linux, there are distros for just about any type of person these days.


Lastly why would I want an ipod? Why not get an iriver and play any format you want?
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:47 PM   #42
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Lastly why would I want to switch to a mac? Can somebody please tell me?


Oh and a max will never be as pretty as any of these.


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Old 07-27-2005, 06:51 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by pharzo
Podcasting is a method of publishing via the Internet, allowing users to subscribe to a feed of new files (usually MP3s). It became popular in late 2004, largely to automate downloading of audio onto portable players or personal computers.
it was just named podcasting because thats "cool, hip, and trendy"
no it wasn't
"The word "podcasting" is a portmanteau that combines the words "broadcasting" and "iPod." The term can be misleading since neither podcasting nor listening to podcasts requires an iPod or any portable music player."
yet is was made "to automate downloading of audio onto portable players or personal computers."
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:53 PM   #44
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yes...the ipod is not integral to any of that. Why don't you respond to the other 95% of my post...or alex's for that matter?
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RC45 about the Z06:
It is also a cheaply made, fast to depreciate, badly service hunk of GM crap.
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:59 PM   #45
SFDMALEX
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/\/\/\So? Ipods are still shit. Doesnt change anything. Mac is not a leader in anything these days. Design...yeah right. I can build a PC that will look tons better in and out. Actually I can build a PC that will look like anything I want to these days.
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