Veyron too fast for photographers

[LotusGT1]

Providing Callaways nationality? LOL, I've yet to encounter somebody who doesn't know that.

as always this has degenerated into an unsolicited "anything American sucks" thread.

Here's what I am talking about, hence my reference to "Anti-americanism". I really don't see why you have to make comments to prove american cars or the US in general is all that. You see things that aren't even there. You mistake the hate for Bush by some for Anti-americanism while it isn't.

You take the dislike of some for a Z06 as another "US sucks" sentiment while it's not. Really, you should get over it one day, instead of feeling the need to bash everything excluding the US. The fact that I don't like Bush doesn't make me a liberal (because I'm not) and the fact I wouldn't buy a Corvette doesn't make me an american carhater either. You appear to be smart enough to figure that out yourself, no need for some blatant name-calling.

I'm not here to get on your back or something, but it's something I have been noticing for a while. I suggest we ignore idiots like JaguarEtype and get over it.

I might have jumped the gun really early on this one with not the best example, but as study is being a pain with an exam tomorrow I might be a bit easy to get pissed.

Now please, let's just get back to the subject shall we?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Providing Callaways nationality? LOL, I've yet to encounter somebody who doesn't know that. as always this has degenerated into an unsolicited "anything American sucks" thread. Here's what I am talking about, hence my reference to "Anti-americanism". I really don't see why you have to make comments to prove american cars or the US in general is all that. You see things that aren't even there. You mistake the hate for Bush by some for Anti-americanism while it isn't. You take the dislike of some for a Z06 as another "US sucks" sentiment while it's not. Really, you should get over it one day, instead of feeling the need to bash everything excluding the US. The fact that I don't like Bush doesn't make me a liberal (because I'm not) and the fact I wouldn't buy a Corvette doesn't make me an american carhater either. You appear to be smart enough to figure that out yourself, no need for some blatant name-calling. I'm not here to get on your back or something, but it's something I have been noticing for a while. I suggest we ignore idiots like JaguarEtype and get over it. I might have jumped the gun really early on this one with not the best example, but as study is being a pain with an exam tomorrow I might be a bit easy to get pissed. Now please, let's just get back to the subject shall we?

Ok - back on track - but now you are asking that I ommit reference to American cars being American because sensitive Euro-types will think it's pre-emptive anti-Amreican defense?

Uhm - alrighteeee then.

The non-American Veyron is not that impressive, and not surprisingly very little proof exists about it's "record run".

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo but the callaway vette aint exactly a car to look to for comparison, its like taking the M5 tuned by a Norwegian tuner with 1100 hp and say BMW make extremly powerfull cars......

Well - that would say Norwegian's make extremely powerful cars..

- and if I am not mistaken, Sledgehammer was purchased by a german brain surgeon at the time, so that's gotta say something about how good the car is, if a brain surgeon bought one..

[Shinigami]

1) The Callaway Sledgehammer Corvette top speed was never officially documented as the recorded speed. It was just the top speed as told by word of mouth.
2) The Sledgehammer never was a production car. It is a modified car and thus cannot be compared with a production car such as the Veyron which comes off the belt stock at a top speed of 400kph. Stick a jet engine on the Veyron and it'll go past 400kph beating the Sledgehammer by another few hundred kph.
3) The Sledgehammer doesn't have the fastest 0-60 time. Usually you need great power and torque to quickly reach speeds, but proper gearing helps as well. witness Impreza's (and the like) which do 0-60 in less then 5 seconds with only 250 hp or so. Change the gearing, and you lose 0-60 time, but gain top speed.
4) And finally, to see how the Sledgehammer performed on it's first run:

Up to 198.6 mph and suddenly smoke appeared from under the car. An oil leak began surfacing, and at about the same time the misfire returned. The leak was minor, traced to an oil adapter housing in the drysump system. But the misfire was another story, so Sledgehammer returned to the garage. New spark plug wires were made up, the ground wire was replaced, and a small puncture was discovered in a tire. Reeves had parked it just in time. It was also discovered that one of the rear axle output shafts was loose in the housing, so a spare rear was bolted in place. Think it's easy to go very fast? Think again.

5) So they tried again:

The car continued to misfire. They changed Zytec units, MSD units and virtually every component in the ignition system.

6) They tried yet again, and this time with success:

On Wednesday, a long hard week after arrival, it was time to turn Lingenfelter and the now strong running Sledgehammer loose. The first runs registered around the 220 mph mark. Then Tim Good noticed the dirt pattern around the front intake gills was flowing out, instead of in. Obviously, a low-pressure area had developed at speed, so the engine was starving for air. Small scoops were fitted to the gills, and out went Sledgehammer to the concrete oval once again. One can't imagine what a streaking 200-mph-plus car sounds like as it flies by, just 100 feet away. It's a giant whoosh, more noise coming from the air being displaced than from the engine, and this time it was some kind of whoosh. The Sledgehammer disappeared into the distance and the walkie-talkie crackled with the answer to the question everyone had burned into their mind. How fast? 254.76 mph.

So yeah, it got to 254.76mph, but was never officially documented...

Not only this, but apparently it would never have been the most reliable car in the world. Granted, you only ever try to achieve 410kph once or twice in your life, and the rest of the time you drive a reasonable 50kph.

Originally Posted by RC45 I never said "american manufacturers don't get the praise they should" - I simply stated Callaway did what VW can't. The reference to him being a US tuner is purely factual... had been a goddamned Lithuanian - then that would be the adjective used.

&

Originally Posted by RC45 Not at all. It just so happens Callaway, an Amercian did in 1988 what VW can't do today - had Callaway been a Saudi, the story would have been "Saudis did in 1988 what VW can't do today". You read far more into this than was portrayed..

Just my two cents, but when you constantly state that it doesn't matter who made the Sledgehammer, be it an arab or a lithuanian, don't try to kid yourself by not feeling at least a little smug about the fact that it was an american, because it is so very obvious from your post that the fact that this is a US born car, makes you all giddy at the thought.

Anyway, signing off. Have fun guys.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami 1) The Callaway Sledgehammer Corvette top speed was never officially documented as the recorded speed. It was just the top speed as told by word of mouth. 2) The Sledgehammer never was a production car. It is a modified car and thus cannot be compared with a production car such as the Veyron which comes off the belt stock at a top speed of 400kph. Stick a jet engine on the Veyron and it'll go past 400kph beating the Sledgehammer by another few hundred kph. 3) The Sledgehammer doesn't have the fastest 0-60 time. Usually you need great power and torque to quickly reach speeds, but proper gearing helps as well. witness Impreza's (and the like) which do 0-60 in less then 5 seconds with only 250 hp or so. Change the gearing, and you lose 0-60 time, but gain top speed. 4) And finally, to see how the Sledgehammer performed on it's first run: Up to 198.6 mph and suddenly smoke appeared from under the car. An oil leak began surfacing, and at about the same time the misfire returned. The leak was minor, traced to an oil adapter housing in the drysump system. But the misfire was another story, so Sledgehammer returned to the garage. New spark plug wires were made up, the ground wire was replaced, and a small puncture was discovered in a tire. Reeves had parked it just in time. It was also discovered that one of the rear axle output shafts was loose in the housing, so a spare rear was bolted in place. Think it's easy to go very fast? Think again. 5) So they tried again: The car continued to misfire. They changed Zytec units, MSD units and virtually every component in the ignition system. 6) They tried yet again, and this time with success: On Wednesday, a long hard week after arrival, it was time to turn Lingenfelter and the now strong running Sledgehammer loose. The first runs registered around the 220 mph mark. Then Tim Good noticed the dirt pattern around the front intake gills was flowing out, instead of in. Obviously, a low-pressure area had developed at speed, so the engine was starving for air. Small scoops were fitted to the gills, and out went Sledgehammer to the concrete oval once again. One can't imagine what a streaking 200-mph-plus car sounds like as it flies by, just 100 feet away. It's a giant whoosh, more noise coming from the air being displaced than from the engine, and this time it was some kind of whoosh. The Sledgehammer disappeared into the distance and the walkie-talkie crackled with the answer to the question everyone had burned into their mind. How fast? 254.76 mph. So yeah, it got to 254.76mph, but was never officially documented... Not only this, but apparently it would never have been the most reliable car in the world. Granted, you only ever try to achieve 410kph once or twice in your life, and the rest of the time you drive a reasonable 50kph. Originally Posted by RC45 I never said "american manufacturers don't get the praise they should" - I simply stated Callaway did what VW can't. The reference to him being a US tuner is purely factual... had been a goddamned Lithuanian - then that would be the adjective used. & Originally Posted by RC45 Not at all. It just so happens Callaway, an Amercian did in 1988 what VW can't do today - had Callaway been a Saudi, the story would have been "Saudis did in 1988 what VW can't do today". You read far more into this than was portrayed.. Just my two cents, but when you constantly state that it doesn't matter who made the Sledgehammer, be it an arab or a lithuanian, don't try to kid yourself by not feeling at least a little smug about the fact that it was an american, because it is so very obvious from your post that the fact that this is a US born car, makes you all giddy at the thought. Anyway, signing off. Have fun guys.

Yeah sure... :roll:

What ever you say...

NOT!

Did you ever consider how the speed was accounted for to the second decimal point? Just beacuse you report your speed over a walkie talkie, does not mean it is not recorded by data logging equipment in the car - the runwas afterall doen at the TRW research track wasn't it?

ANother thing, some of us have been reading that story since the day it was published in 1988 and are rather familiar with it. Some of us have also had the cahnce to chat with people that were actually at the event.. as with any anecdotal story there are details ommited from the press versiont that seem to draw amatuer slueths like a moth to a flame.

You hit the nail on the head the car destroyed all records only after one or 2 outings... the Veyron has 5 or more years of almost unlimited budget thrown at it, and on one of it's recent outings to the 'Ring lapped slower than a Boxter because it was so heavy, unreliable and badly engineered.

There is nothing giddy about it bud, the car did what it did, it did it in 1988 and the car did it with a budget smaller than the fuel bill for the VW executivies limousine services.

The Veyron is a stillborn hunk of junk program that should have been shelved many years ago.

In the time since the Veyron was announced we have seen the Enzo, come and go, the CGT come and go, indeed the Koenigsegg CC8 and the Pagani S come and go - VW should just pack up and go home.

They are an embarresment to the automotive engineering field.

The car is ugly, behind schedule and in the final analysis, not that impressive.

Do you have any idea just how many 1000hp+ street cars there are in the USA? More than Veyrons will ever get built.

And these are not one-off race cars, but cars that get delivered from tuning shops with warrantees and A/C and 6 disc CD changers..

So - there are probably just as many 1000hp+ Koenig and other tuner cars running around in Europe... so what's the point of the Veyron again?

BTW, I am pretty sure a Mine's Skyline would blow that Veyron into the weeds if the idea was ultimate topspeed - so it looks like the Japs have VW beat as well ...

Oh - and before anyone pipes up "But the Veyron will be a prodcution car..." - let's put this in perspective, it's going to be a "produciton car" with even more post-sales pampering than the Macca F1 recieved. You can be sure each car will have a personal mechanic and they will need constant attention and maintenance - afterall VW is so fearful of their own product, they have a special routine to go through before you can run "it's top speed" - that is a show of no-confidence in your product.

I will waiger that not one press test will have the car seeing this magic top speed... well, except VW's own "secret" test

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo you are talking about how much problems they got with the Veyron and how long time they have used on it....how much time do you think was spent on the vette the callaway was buildt on?

Actually, Callaway was only involved in Corvette tuning after 1987/87...

That would put it at less time than VW spent selecting the VIP menu for the Veyron prototype dinner.

Originally Posted by brembo it was a continued from the previous vette and so on so it have had decades of evolution to get to the one the Callaway was buildt on, then they made it more powerfull and added some areo to it.......

Not quite... the evolution you speak of is the same one you so easily criticize for being in the dark ages.. so which is it? Is Corvette a leader on the cutting edge, or do they recycle old wore out useless tech?

Originally Posted by brembo The buggati are a new car, with a new engine....do you think vette would make a engine that small and powerfull any faster and better? I dont.....

So now it's everyone elses fault that VW couldn't improve the current instead trying to reinvent the wheel - unsuccessfully..

Originally Posted by brembo If they claim the Veyron does that speed it does, and it will be tested again Im pretty sure.....how many times have the callaway done the speed that are claimed then?

How many times has the Macca F1, Diablo, CC8 or any other record breaker repeated it's speeds?



Any lest you think I hate VW, my grandfather was CEO & Chairman of the Board of VW/Audi South Africa - so I have strong family ties and loyalties to the brand

[Shinigami]

Wow RC, you didn't read my post, did you?

There are many 1000hp cars not just in the US, but also in Europe and Asia. But none of them are production cars. They're just tuned up 'normal' cars. Most of these cars won't survive thousands of miles on the same engine, yet this is something the Veyron is trying to achieve. This is why it has +5 years of development behind it, so that it doesn't end up a car which fails after 10k miles.

Anyway, I have this impression that it will be pointless to discuss things like this with you, because although you say it is not so, you're very blatantly biassed against american cars and refuse to think otherwise. What others have said to me, seems to be true. You don't want to hear it, but everyone is saying it. You want to relish the thought of an american car beating that made in another country, and that's ok with me. It's your impression and your preference.

But man, you do it in such an ignorant and clearly biassed way that I find it a little sad.

p.s. you do know that speed measuring equipment are not necesarily very accurate. Lasers, GPS, etc... they all get wrong measurements more often then you would care to think, and don't even mention the tacho in a car, which at high speed can be as inaccurate as 10 or 15%. Maybe the equipment they used 17 years ago was less then accurate, after all, nobody has heard a thing about the guy who bought the car back then and the speed run was not confirmed in subsequent runs.

Oh, and do note that in my previous post, it took three tries on the "official testing day" before the car made it's official speed run. You do understand that previously they had been trying this for many months prior to this 'official' test. It's not as if they just bolted on some turbos, tried three times and wham bang, thank you mam, the car broke 250mph. Don't be so ignorant :\

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami Wow RC, you didn't read my post, did you?

I read your whole post. I am guessing a lot was lost in the translation - in typical uptight euro-fashion you took personal offense at everything - upto and including the obvious ribbing with emoticons... such as this one :arrow: and this one :arrow:

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami There are many 1000hp cars not just in the US, but also in Europe and Asia. But none of them are production cars. They're just tuned up 'normal' cars. Most of these cars won't survive thousands of miles on the same engine, yet this is something the Veyron is trying to achieve. This is why it has +5 years of development behind it, so that it doesn't end up a car which fails after 10k miles.

Uhm - apparently you didn't read my post - I am well aware of the existence of tuner cars in world - I even mentioned this. And sadly you seem to belive that a tuner car is an unreliable car... well sorry to disappoint you , but there are many tuner cars running around - that are daily driven and rack up 12,000 miles or more a year.

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami Anyway, I have this impression that it will be pointless to discuss things like this with you, because although you say it is not so, you're very blatantly biassed against american cars and refuse to think otherwise.

If you say so - of course you must also know I am not actually a "born in the USA" person and have a large cross section of interest.. but you knew this of course.. :roll:

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami What others have said to me, seems to be true. You don't want to hear it, but everyone is saying it. You want to relish the thought of an american car beating that made in another country, and that's ok with me. It's your impression and your preference.

The reason I take this stance and then enjoy watching you euro-types squirm is because before I moved to the USA I was also surrounded by this anti-American car crap day in and day out - and I can attest to the fact that it is not based on fact - but simply a stereotypical bias - that if it comes form America it must be crap therefore it is crap.

However, with an open mind I have for years always seen past this euro-centric anti-US bias - and it always made me chuckle.

Sure a 1975 Buick may be a boat and crap and useless - but a 1992 Viper or a 2001 Corvette or even a 1990 Hummer or a 1975 Willys Jeep are excellent vehicles for their specific tasks - yet I have seen (even the years I did not live here) that many many people form outside the US simply stereotypically hate anything US.

As I say I find this rather funny.. and to the point you even proved it with you point for point post trying to disprove any merit in the Callaway versus bolstering the Veyron to some euro-pedestal of worship.



Yet another biased eurocrat shows up at the car-hop...

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami But man, you do it in such an ignorant and clearly biassed way that I find it a little sad.

No - you just have such a closed mind to the possibility that ANYTHING non-european could be good, you will do what ever you can to prove that claim. That behaviour is ignorant - because you believe your standpoint to be true.

At least I have an open enough mind to consider all comers..

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami p.s. you do know that speed measuring equipment are not necesarily very accurate. Lasers, GPS, etc... they all get wrong measurements more often then you would care to think, and don't even mention the tacho in a car, which at high speed can be as inaccurate as 10 or 15%. Maybe the equipment they used 17 years ago was less then accurate, after all, nobody has heard a thing about the guy who bought the car back then and the speed run was not confirmed in subsequent runs.

Typical crap - now you want to say "17 years ago measurements were so inaccurate they cannot be trusted"... yeah - so lets dismiss all records from the '30's, 40's etc - hell even Olympic athletes times should be thrown out, they weren't times to 14th decimal point... :roll: This is an example of "clutching at straws".

Originally Posted by Shinri_Shiogami Oh, and do note that in my previous post, it took three tries on the "official testing day" before the car made it's official speed run. You do understand that previously they had been trying this for many months prior to this 'official' test. It's not as if they just bolted on some turbos, tried three times and wham bang, thank you mam, the car broke 250mph. Don't be so ignorant :\

Actually - in the grand scheme of things, they did just "bolt on some turbos" and wham bam thankyou mama they achieved what they did.

Callaway had 10 years of development in the turbo field, and the production Callaway Twin Turbo was already on sale and warranted as a GM car when the record was set.

What is truly unfuckingbelievably arrogant of you is the be so presumptuous as to imply that someone paraphrasing an elaborate story is showing some level of ignorance because they didn't transcribe 40 pages of minute details.

I don't know you from a bar of soap, and neither do you know me - so when the 2 of us discuss a topic on an Internet forum, and one party quotes a part of a story, or makes a contextual comment, maybe you can have some decorum and respect to at least give the person the benefit of the doubt and consider that they may know the whole story but are paraphrasing and just providing an anecdotal sound bite for discussion purpose.

[stefanometa]

whahahah...

[pimrusis]

The top speed mode was an interesting edition. It makes sense to, we can't have billionaires killing themselves and leaving their money to 29 year old bimbos.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by pimrusis The top speed mode was an interesting edition. It makes sense to, we can't have billionaires killing themselves and leaving their money to 29 year old bimbos.

It sure will keep some more lawyers employed though...

[DeMoN]

Cant believe this heavy thing can actually hit those marks. So then, it is true it will have 1001? Cuz I read that it seemed it wasnt going to get to that mark.