German chassis engineering meets American Muscle

[ZfrkS62]

http://www.nash8503.com/

How do you stuff a 5.7L LS1 Corvette engine into 318ti???? spend $5800 on the conversion kit, thats how

[dutchmasterflex]

all the engineering work to make that chassis is useless now that that engine has been bolted on to it..

that car must have some serious traction problems..

[MartijnGizmo]

Nice, I want one in touring-form!

[coombsie66]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex all the engineering work to make that chassis is useless now that that engine has been bolted on to it.. that car must have some serious traction problems..

If they'd converted an M car then i'd be tempted to agree with you, but as it is, hmmmmm wheezy 1.8 4 pot (the only beemers worth having are 6 cylinder and more, apart from the legendary E30 M3) or beasty V8 and 3rd gear rolling burnouts everywhere.

Hard decision that one

[dutchmasterflex]

all i'm sayin is that the 50/50 balance is off

[ZfrkS62]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex all i'm sayin is that the 50/50 balance is off

that thing is so small anyway what does it matter?

[imprezaWRC]

crazy owner :shock:

[RC45]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex all i'm sayin is that the 50/50 balance is off

You obviously seem to think the all aluminium LSx is heavy.

It's a narrow low profile all aluminium engine bud..

Not some super wide top-header OHC waste of space

Cheaper, quicker, faster and more reliable than an M3...

[dutchmasterflex]

well, it's not heavy, but it doesnt weigh the same as the 1.8L that was in there before..

not to mention the chassis has all this new torque to handle

[sentra_dude]

Speaking of M3's and LS1s...

http://v3auto.com/philosophy.html

Building fast automobiles is a passion of ours. Building fast refined automobiles is a challenge for anyone, especially those in the low volume tuner car business. We chose the E36 as the launching pad for our business. In our opinion, the E36 chassis is a great platform to build a hard-core Tuner car. Our experience with non factory forced induction engines led us down a different path than the status quo in BMW aftermarket performance. We chose to examine the option of complete replacement drivetrain. We decided from a packaging and power potential standpoint, that a V8 would be ideal. After researching other available V8 options, we concluded that the Corvette/Camaro LS1/6 V8 was the best candidate as a power source for our E36 conversion. These engines are incredibly well designed. They are also incredibly light in weight. All dressed, these engines weighs 100 lbs less than the BMW I6. In stock 5.7L configuration, they also offer nearly twice the displacement.

Pretty cool.

[MartijnGizmo]

Another LS1-powered E36 on http://www.vorshlag.com/E36ProjectBook.asp

The Quest: More Power OK, so the E36 is a cool chassis. But these cars all lack one thing: horsepower. This lack of hp is due to one major parameter - engine displacement. The 318 was a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder car that was severely underpowered [I know this first hand]. The 325 & 328 models had a 2.5/2.8 liter straight six that had ~200 hp on a good day, and this just doesn't make for blistering performance. The top-of-the-line M3, offered in the U.S. from 1995 to 1999, only made 240 hp from its 3.0 or 3.2L engine [that's what many plebian FWD v6 cars make nowadays]. It managed to squeak low 14's @ 100 mph in the 1/4 mile with this tweaked 3.0-3.2L version of the 325/328's same basic engine. The European versions made as much as 80 more hp than the U.S.-spec M3 version, but we didn't get these higher-revving versions until the E46 M3 was introduced with its 333 hp Inline 6 (at the princely sum of $52K+). Aftermarket engine upgrades for the BMW straight-6 engines are few and expensive, and being from a premium German brand, anything BMW specific is 2X or 3X as expensive as for a traditional American V8. Even normal Vortech supercharger kits, which are priced from $2000-4000 for American cars, cost upwards of $7000 for a BMW, using the same basic head unit. And with only 3.2L max in stock form, there's just not a whole lot to work with. Stroker engines? HA - Fuggedaboutit. Aftermarket heads or intakes? Nope. Headers are $1200 and up.. for ONE HEADER. Gasp! We at Vorshlag have raced and street driven numerous Mustangs, Camaros/Firebirds, and Corvettes over the last decade. McCall and Fair both have V8 powered Formulas in their garages [McCall a 380 hp '95 Formula LT1 and Mrs. Fair has a 340 hp '98 Formula LS1]. Fair alone has owned 6 Mustangs and 7 F-bodies, while McCall is working on his 6th F-body himself. Among others that have driven these cars for years, we have tired of the crude interiors, dated looks, and terrible ride quality of these antiquated American icons. It's time for something better. But the PRICE of the pushrod V8 powered Pony Cars are impossible to beat, and the combination of aftermarket support, racing development, power potential, and low cost for performance upgrades for these engines is the best of any engines in the world. Solution: American V8 Why not add the best parts of these "pony cars", the American V8 drivetrain, into a more sophisticated chassis, like a German sports sedan? We have been keeping a sharp eye on the market prices of many BMW models, especially the E36 BMWs. After extensive measurements, it is obvious that the factory BMW 2.5-3.2L, crossflow head Inline-6 engine is MASSIVE in height, length, and width. With an iron block and uber-long crank, it is also one heavy mutha. Hell, a lightweight V8 swap could LOSE weight in this car! This is not unheard of - Ford 302's with aluminum heads, swapped into Datsun 240-280Z cars, can lose a few pounds. Cross-flow head Inline-6 engines are not at all space or weight efficient. Question: What would a BMW 325 run like with an American 400 hp V8? Answer: Like a scalded ape! 3000 lb. German Sedan + 400 hp Corvette V8 + T56 six speed = SWEET! Fair had Miata V8 visions for years, but when his '92 Miata got pummelled by hail, he decided to sell it and look for a better chassis candidate for a V8 swap. That's when the E36 chassis idea came up [again], and the pros and cons seemed to favor this car over any other at the time. Great looks, great aftermarket support for suspension/brakes, and the prices finally got lower enough for a clean E36. We bought the car and now we're building the V8, which is shown on our E36 Project Page. The E36 looks to be the perfect V8 candidate. There have been a handful of others who have done 4-cam BMW V8 swaps into these cars, so a pushrod V8 should be a breeze by comparison. The T56 looks like it will fit inside the transmission tunnel. There are a variety of BMW rearends that could bolt-in this chassis and withstand moderate V8 power, such as the diffs and halfshafts from the E36 M3, Euro E36 M3, E46 M3, or 5/7 series. This will save a TON of headaches we were facing on the custom Miata rearend situation. BMW V8 Swap Vendors? There is only one tuner we know of building and selling a V8 BMW 3 series: The Hartge H50 has the M5's 400 hp DOHC V8, and its a paltry one hundred and twenty thousand dollars . The Car&Driver article link keeps moving around - you could also Google "Hartge H50" instead. Sure, its quite a nice creation, but its $120K base price will keep most people from even thinking of buying one of these. The 400 hp M5 motor they use in their swaps is a TIGHT squeeze in the car, but they manage to make it fit. The DOHC V8 in the M5 is a MASSIVE thing, and dwarfs the LS1 in both size and weight, but not in power output [the '02-3 factory LS6 makes 405 hp] or especially power potential. Also, its always less expensive to modify an American OHV engine compared to a DOHC German V8. The swap is much easier with the smaller, more plentiful LS1 as well, and the Borg-Warner/Tremec T56 six speed from the Camaro/Firebird is also easier to come by than the costly ZF sourced manual used in the M5 and the Hartge 3-series V8 swap. If you can afford a $120K+ Hartge H50 conversion on a new E46 3 series, by all means, go for it. Ditto the $150K BMW M3 GTR, coming "soon", with a detuned 350 hp version of the same M5 DOHC V8. I'm sure both of these Bank-Account-Busting BMWs are very incredible cars. But for the rest of us mere mortals, a $5000-10000 used BMW E36 3 series with a $4000 LS1/T56 package, plus some associated conversion costs, makes a lot more financial sense. The same performance at 1/10th the price with more potential for power. Funk Dat! Lets build our own...

Too bad they havn't updated in a year or so. I would have no problem buying a cheap 318i, drop in a LS1 (if only they were as cheap here as they come in the states), add a M3-bodykit and have lots of fun for little money. 8)

[RC45]

Originally Posted by sentra_dude All dressed, these engines weighs 100 lbs less than the BMW I6.

Now will you people believe us when we say "Bigger is always better when it is lighter"...??

[RC45]

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas ^^^ I never thought that the Vette engine would be lighter than the 1.8 bimmer 4-pot engine ops: Anyway - what's next?? a Civic SRT10 with the Viper engine?? :roll: pointless...

Not pointless - the same way the AC Cobra rewrote the record books, remember, the weakest , slowest car NEVER wins... (until Ferrari gets the FIA to change the rules to their advantage )

Oh - and remember the 427ci 505hp LS7 is the same external dimensions as the LS1/6 and LS2... so the nature of the swap is as wild as the persons pockets are deep

650hp heads/cam/LS7 combo in an M3 package sounds sweet..

[graywolf624]

I never thought that the Vette engine would be lighter than the 1.8 bimmer 4-pot engine

Ding ding ding...
Though it isnt really fair.. The ls1 engine is one of the lightest current produced of any size.